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Apparently Monfils has better fitness & functional strength than Murray & Djokovic

:haha:

Whilst stating the glaringly obvious, Svenbj thought he would use Monfils as an example, by indirectly implying he has better fitness & functional strength than Djokovic and Murray.

Fitness and speed doesn't even make you a great defender, contrary to popular belief. Because if it did, Monfils would be a better defender than Djokovic and Murray.
....because he slides around like Dhalsim from Street-Fighter, on the clay at Roland Garros, a few matches every season. :grin2:
 

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Discussion Starter #2
Re: Apparently Monfils has better fitness & functional strength than Murray & Djokovi

It's time you learned the difference between muscular aesthetics and fitness/functional strength.
 

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Re: Apparently Monfils has better fitness & functional strength than Murray & Djokovi

But then you have Andy Roddick who has the fastest racket head speed since he turns away from the ball during the backswing more than any other player giving him more time. He also has the best hip speed. He rotates his hips all the way to the baseline unlike Federer, Berdych and the rest. Any increase in hip speed is multiplied about 16 times at the racket.
This is more waffle in the sake of attempting to flex so-called intellectualism. Roddick is one player. This caters for an incredibly small sector of the population of players out there.

Never-the-less, if you want to place greater importance on hip-rotation when it comes to the serve (Despite Rublev already having a pretty big-serve) then be aware muscles still play a role. What is the primary muscle for hip internal rotation

Ontop of this you've got Coric, who's favourite shot is his double handed backhand and this more than the forehand requires good hip-rotation. Coric is of athletic and reasonably muscular build, but most importantly enough possesses something you've never heard of because you only think aesthetics, functional strength.

Everything else can be trained. You can improve your fitness, shoulder rotation, strength of your hip rotators. Djokovic, Murray and to a point, Nadal have all done that. So why does Murray have lag so far behind? Technique! To be more precise, his shitty forehand that makes his attacking mediocre at best.
Here is the primary reason I did not reply to you the other day, you talk right out of your anal passage. It just streams. diarrhea.

Murray does not lag behind in any way. He had been the Australian open final 6 times and on each occasion was denied by the greatest player on hard-court this (And arguably any) generation has ever seen. His forehand is weak, but that is not the reason he lags behind, good to see you've been reading my articles by the way, since this was a major point I raised concerning Goffin. :wink2: Quite obvious.

Nadal is (Or was) so far ahead of everyone on the clay that he was able to notch up 9 grandslam titles on the surface. On hard-court there are more players of an exceptional standard to stand in Murray's way. Federer, Djokovic, Wawrinka and once-upon-a-time, Murray himself. The number of grandslams Murray has does not indicate 'he lags behind'. There are 4 majors a year and the sample size is not large enough for you to be bringing out such relevance to a stat that is meaningless when put into context.

Murray's forehand is his weakness, along with his second serve, but the reason for only 2 majors is largely due to one player, perhaps the greatest player that's ever lived, Djokovic. Get that into your pedantic skull.

Everything in-terms of fitness and athleticism cannot be trained. Certain players cannot build more athleticism and in certain contexts, why would they want to? Why would Raonic waste years becoming more athletic when he's a first strike player that likes to attack the net (Now)???? It makes no sense.

Ontop of this, you can be a great athlete, but not have instinctively good patterns of footwork and movement on a tennis court. This is PRECISELY why I laugh at people on here who try to insinuate movement is not a skill and entirely down to your athleticism and so therefore Djokovic is not that talented.

If you truly believe you do not need a 'strong physicality' to be good, on clay, then I'm sorry you've never touched a tennis racquet in your life, let alone stepped onto a clay-court. You need strong legs, core and biceps (For topspin) to play a prolonged baseline style on clay. Meeting with the bounce-of-the-ball and having the physicality to not allow that bounce to 'press-you-back' further behind the baseline after you make-contact-with-it, requires a strong-core and good hamstrings. Quadriceps are needed for changing direction on the clay and hamstrings for ensuring you don't fall too far back with your court position.

Fitness and speed doesn't even make you a great defender, contrary to popular belief. Because if it did, Monfils would be a better defender than Djokovic and Murray.
When did I say it did? Fitness and speed are major bi-product of being a great defend. This popular belief is only in the mainstream. Don't patronise me on it. Monfils does not have better fucking fitness than Djokovic and Murray. In-fact, his fitness is diabolical and this has been professed by not only his former coaches, but also Novak Djokovic himself, in a flaming interview. So that alone, categorically shows to me you have no idea between the difference between muscular aesthetics and fitness and functional strength.
 

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Re: Apparently Monfils has better fitness & functional strength than Murray & Djokovi

Monf is the COAW of the ATP Tour.
 

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Re: Apparently Monfils has better fitness & functional strength than Murray & Djokovi

Ok, let's try to get back to the topic, even if it was asked in an asinine way. Does Monfils have better fitness... and so on. If your post was deleted, it's because the thread was cleaned up.
 

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Re: Apparently Monfils has better fitness & functional strength than Murray & Djokovi

Ok, let's try to get back to the topic, even if it was asked in an asinine way. Does Monfils have better fitness... and so on. If your post was deleted, it's because the thread was cleaned up.
No, the other two have better fitness.

Monfils does, or did have a more explosive first step to the ball.

He had more speed than the other two.

I think he is past his peak because of all the injuries and is not quite as fast as he was.
 

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Re: Apparently Monfils has better fitness & functional strength than Murray & Djokovi

No Monfils doesn't have better fitness than Murray or Djokovic, Monfils would probably win a 100m race between them but that's not going to do jack shit in a best of 5 set match where stamina and strength play a bigger part, Murray and Djokovic are both much fitter overall than Monfils.
 

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Re: Apparently Monfils has better fitness & functional strength than Murray & Djokovi

Monfils has very poor fitness actually, way behind Djokovic and Murray.

He's a freakish athlete though, much better than Djokovic or Murray.

People always confuse those things here.
 

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Re: Apparently Monfils has better fitness & functional strength than Murray & Djokovi

Does Monfils have better fitness than Murray or Djokovic? lol that isn't even a valid question, the guy literally doubles up panting and wheezing when a match gets to 3 hours and then he's done for the entire tournament.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Re: Apparently Monfils has better fitness & functional strength than Murray & Djokovi

Does Monfils have better fitness than Murray or Djokovic? lol that isn't even a valid question, the guy literally doubles up panting and wheezing when a match gets to 3 hours and then he's done for the entire tournament.
Two times the British intelligence in this thread now. Cheers mate. :wink2:
 

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Re: Apparently Monfils has better fitness & functional strength than Murray & Djokovi

Monfils is fast- yes. But he is not THAT fit in terms of stamina and endurance. I can't even begin to count the number of BO5 matches that went the distance that I've seen Monfils get tired in.

he LOOKS extremely fit but looks can be deceiving (i.e. Roger Federer doesn't look remarkably fit yet still can outlast a majority of other players).

Monfils is quick and fairly agile. He is not built to endure forever in long points and matches as much as some of these other guys. I mean its like comparing Ferrer and Monfils- I think its fair to say that Monfils may be more explosive and flexible than a David Ferrer, but Ferrer is vastly better at enduring through long points, games, sets. Monfils wears himself down.

I think a good question however is whether or not this is naturally an issue for Gael, or if its from poor training, OR if the reason he fails to last physically in long matches and points is because of HOW he chooses to play. He's certainly not doing himself any favors by diving and sliding constantly to attempt to win points where he is far behind when all it accomplishes is to entertain the crowd

I think its safe to say he is not truly as fit as a bunch of the top guys but the mysterious question is whether or not this is due to his own decision making or if it is just a natural genetic thing
 
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Re: Apparently Monfils has better fitness & functional strength than Murray & Djokovi

Le Monf is a 100m distance runner, does not have the stamina, endurance or talent of Murray and Djoko.
 

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Re: Apparently Monfils has better fitness & functional strength than Murray & Djokovi

Monfils is fast- yes. But he is not THAT fit in terms of stamina and endurance. I can't even begin to count the number of BO5 matches that went the distance that I've seen Monfils get tired in.

he LOOKS extremely fit but looks can be deceiving (i.e. Roger Federer doesn't look remarkably fit yet still can outlast a majority of other players).

Monfils is quick and fairly agile. He is not built to endure forever in long points and matches as much as some of these other guys. I mean its like comparing Ferrer and Monfils- I think its fair to say that Monfils may be more explosive and flexible than a David Ferrer, but Ferrer is vastly better at enduring through long points, games, sets. Monfils wears himself down.

I think a good question however is whether or not this is naturally an issue for Gael, or if its from poor training, OR if the reason he fails to last physically in long matches and points is because of HOW he chooses to play. He's certainly not doing himself any favors by diving and sliding constantly to attempt to win points where he is far behind when all it accomplishes is to entertain the crowd

I think its safe to say he is not truly as fit as a bunch of the top guys but the mysterious question is whether or not this is due to his own decision making or if it is just a natural genetic thing
Nicely summarised. Genetics aside, I do think there's a lot to do with Monfils' game. He's remarkably quick for someone of his stature but I do think he can get bogged down with his style of play and expend unnecessary energy. He is very prone to losing focus and prolonging matches he ought to win much easier. Last year's French Open being a prime example of that - 2 five setters en route to meeting Federer. No wonder he had nothing for that match. Lately his coach has brought some mental steel to encourage Gael to make greater use of his strengths. Certainly seen some good results this year. But I have to agree he is not the fittest player on the ATP tour who can chase down balls endlessly without feeling too ragged and he doesn't often have quick point winning formulas (apart from the erve, though he can be explosive at times). Even Nishikori (though injury prone) is fitter than Gael within a long match.
 

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Re: Apparently Monfils has better fitness & functional strength than Murray & Djokovi

They say the more you sweat, the fitter you are.

 

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Re: Apparently Monfils has better fitness & functional strength than Murray & Djokovi

He's certainly good speed. Endurance is awful though.
 
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