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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hey, guys!

Let's do some match. No subjective views, only facts and calculations. Hopefully you enjoy it.

Grand Slams

The real distribution of events by surfaces: 2 - on hard courts, 1 - on clay, 1 - on grass

Tournaments entered: Nadal - 61, Djokovic - 63

Titles per entrance:
Nadal - 0.16 on hard courts, 0.81 - on clay, 0.14 - on grass;
Djokovic - 0.38 on hard courts, 0.06 - on clay, 0.33 - on grass

With equal 1:1:1 distribution on hard courts, clay and grass at the distance of 60 events the projected number of titles:

Nadal - 0.16x20+0.81x20+0.14x20=22.2
Djokovic - 0.38x20+0.06x20+0.33x20=15.4

Masters


The real distribution of events by surfaces: 6 - on hard courts, 3 - on clay

Tournaments entered: Nadal - 123, Djokovic - 118

Titles per entrance:
Nadal - 0.14 on hard courts, 0.53 - on clay
Djokovic - 0.33 on hard courts, 0.25 - on clay

With equal 1:1 distribution on hard courts and clay at the distance of 120 events the projected number of titles:

Nadal - 0.14x60+0.53x60=40.2
Djokovic - 0.33x60+0.25x60=34.8
 

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There is no such skewed calendar. there is a most important surface: HC. Thats the reason why its played on the most. Clay specialist is not the best on HC, Novak is. End of discusion.
 

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Hey, guys!

Let's do some match. No subjective views, only facts and calculations. Hopefully you enjoy it.

Nadal - 0.14x60+0.53x60=40.2
Djokovic - 0.33x60+0.25x60=34.8
Ha ha ha clown. Because there is one clay GS and two hard court GS, lets count for RN 26 GS on clay?
(and totally neglect some HC are slow and bouncy as clay)

Ha ha ha, only facts, grand delusion
 

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Hey, guys!

Let's do some match. No subjective views, only facts and calculations. Hopefully you enjoy it.

Grand Slams

The real distribution of events by surfaces: 2 - on hard courts, 1 - on clay, 1 - on grass

Tournaments entered: Nadal - 61, Djokovic - 63

Titles per entrance:
Nadal - 0.16 on hard courts, 0.81 - on clay, 0.14 - on grass;
Djokovic - 0.38 on hard courts, 0.06 - on clay, 0.33 - on grass

With equal 1:1:1 distribution on hard courts, clay and grass at the distance of 60 events the projected number of titles:

Nadal - 0.16x20+0.81x20+0.14x20=22.2
Djokovic - 0.38x20+0.06x20+0.33x20=15.4

Masters


The real distribution of events by surfaces: 6 - on hard courts, 3 - on clay

Tournaments entered: Nadal - 123, Djokovic - 118

Titles per entrance:
Nadal - 0.14 on hard courts, 0.53 - on clay
Djokovic - 0.33 on hard courts, 0.25 - on clay

With equal 1:1 distribution on hard courts and clay at the distance of 120 events the projected number of titles:

Nadal - 0.14x60+0.53x60=40.2
Djokovic - 0.33x60+0.25x60=34.8
I did not understand what the calender has to do with titles per entrance ?

It is nothing new that Nadal has a better titles per entrance rate than Djokovic. Especially thanks to clay.
So this is not a news.
But what has the calender to do with it ?
 

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There are so many flaws to this type of reasoning that it's difficult to even know where to begin.
OP is another recently joined Nadaltard with an "objectively" looking analysis, who came with an agenda to the forum.

Only fools cannot see this.
 

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OP is another recently joined Nadaltard with an "objectively" looking analysis, who came with an agenda to the forum.

Only fools cannot see this.
Who would have not written this if not for the long awaited big clay title this season ahaha.
 
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Hey, guys!

Let's do some match. No subjective views, only facts and calculations. Hopefully you enjoy it.

Grand Slams

The real distribution of events by surfaces: 2 - on hard courts, 1 - on clay, 1 - on grass

Tournaments entered: Nadal - 61, Djokovic - 63

Titles per entrance:
Nadal - 0.16 on hard courts, 0.81 - on clay, 0.14 - on grass;
Djokovic - 0.38 on hard courts, 0.06 - on clay, 0.33 - on grass

With equal 1:1:1 distribution on hard courts, clay and grass at the distance of 60 events the projected number of titles:

Nadal - 0.16x20+0.81x20+0.14x20=22.2
Djokovic - 0.38x20+0.06x20+0.33x20=15.4

Masters


The real distribution of events by surfaces: 6 - on hard courts, 3 - on clay

Tournaments entered: Nadal - 123, Djokovic - 118

Titles per entrance:
Nadal - 0.14 on hard courts, 0.53 - on clay
Djokovic - 0.33 on hard courts, 0.25 - on clay

With equal 1:1 distribution on hard courts and clay at the distance of 120 events the projected number of titles:

Nadal - 0.14x60+0.53x60=40.2
Djokovic - 0.33x60+0.25x60=34.8
Do you understand that this distribution of surfaces was there from the beginning of their careers and all players including them, tried to adapt to surface played the most in order to succeed. Who failed became a clay specialist or maybe the doubles player. In ither words, Nadal knew this distribution form the beginning, but was not able to develop proper set of skills to be the best on the major surface, so he, like Brian brothers for example, choose the area where the competition was and is inferior. That brought them the unprecedented dominance for obvious reasons.
 

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These surface distribution arguments get quite tiresome. Hard court is the dominant surface because it should be, since it has by far the greatest variety in speed and bounce compared to other surfaces. Clay and grass are highly specialized surfaces defined by the materials they're composed of, and their properties are highly consistent even among different courts and tournaments. "Hard" court is quite a vague term in comparison, since the materials vary widely and that can create significantly different court conditions depending on the composition of materials used.

As someone once said...if, if, if doesn't exist. The tour calendar has been consistent in terms of surface distribution for a long time, and Nadal has had his entire career to adapt and become better on the dominant surface on tour. And he has, in fact, improved greatly on hard courts over time and achieved a lot. But it's a little bit ironic that despite Nadal's famous quote about not dwelling on "what if" scenarios, it's been Nadal fans that have over the years raised the most questions regarding things like "what if there were fewer hard court tournaments?" or "why isn't the YEC played on clay?" and such.
 

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HC is the most important surface only for Djoko tards.
no, its the most played surface in the world and the most played surface on tour, like grass once was the most important one, with the three slams. Those are facts. It doesnt mean that the AO is wprth more than the French... i think u get the point. Its not my opinion, its what it is. The day the most big titles are played on clay, it will be clay. U till then, it is not.
 

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Obvious thread aimed at boosting Clay pusher missing WTF's or Golden Masters at height of Red dirt season. Color me surprised :eek:
OP should b grateful there aren't more Grass tourn. to upset the apple cart even more.
 

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Grass is the fastest surface, clay is the slowest, they both have one slam each. Hardcourt is a neutral surface so it has two.

Nonetheless, this argument to discredit Djokovic is pointless since he has more Wimbledon titles than USO, so he is not surface-dependant at all. This would be more of a case if Djokovic's two best slams were in HC, but that's obviously not the case.
 
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If the USO was slashed and we only had the other 3 slams, one in each surface and each member of the Big 3 having his "pet slam", the slam count would be as following:

1- Nadal 16
2- Djokovic 15
3- Federer 15

Djokovic would be in a better position than he is now.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
These surface distribution arguments get quite tiresome. Hard court is the dominant surface because it should be, since it has by far the greatest variety in speed and bounce compared to other surfaces. Clay and grass are highly specialized surfaces defined by the materials they're composed of, and their properties are highly consistent even among different courts and tournaments. "Hard" court is quite a vague term in comparison, since the materials vary widely and that can create significantly different court conditions depending on the composition of materials used.

As someone once said...if, if, if doesn't exist. The tour calendar has been consistent in terms of surface distribution for a long time, and Nadal has had his entire career to adapt and become better on the dominant surface on tour. And he has, in fact, improved greatly on hard courts over time and achieved a lot. But it's a little bit ironic that despite Nadal's famous quote about not dwelling on "what if" scenarios, it's been Nadal fans that have over the years raised the most questions regarding things like "what if there were fewer hard court tournaments?" or "why isn't the YEC played on clay?" and such.
The variety of the ball-to-surface interaction on hard courts is only a result of an inflated number of events played on it. Give this surface only 4 big events and there will be way less variety in speed. Clay can be varied just as much as hard courts. There is an undeniable difference between European red clay and American green clay, also known as rubico and har-true, which has been used at US Open for a while. Nowadays we only have one WTA event on it and something similar in Houston in ATP. So, there are all the opportunities to makes things more fair, starting to use fast clay at big events. Miami Masters would be a nice option.
 
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