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USA and the West historically joined at the hip this horrific political regime...ISIS is an unfinished Saudi Arabia :lol:
 

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USA caused this shitstorm named ISIS 12 years ago when they've removed Hussein from power. The rest is history (overthrowing Gaddafi, Libya basically a dead state, Syria, Iraq in ruins, civil wars, chaos). The list goes on and on.

How did the western media called it? Arab spring? Yeah, my ass.
 

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USA caused this shitstorm named ISIS 12 years ago when they've removed Hussein from power. The rest is history (overthrowing Gaddafi, Libya basically a dead state, Syria, Iraq in ruins, civil wars, chaos). The list goes on and on.

How did the western media called it? Arab spring? Yeah, my ass.
Exactly.

In order to understand why the Islamic State has grown and flourished so quickly, one has to take a look at the organization’s American-backed roots. The 2003 American invasion and occupation of Iraq created the pre-conditions for radical Sunni groups, like ISIS, to take root. America, rather unwisely, destroyed Saddam Hussein’s secular state machinery and replaced it with a predominantly Shiite administration. The U.S. occupation caused vast unemployment in Sunni areas, by rejecting socialism and closing down factories in the naive hope that the magical hand of the free market would create jobs. Under the new U.S.-backed Shiite regime, working class Sunni’s lost hundreds of thousands of jobs. Unlike the white Afrikaners in South Africa, who were allowed to keep their wealth after regime change, upper class Sunni’s were systematically dispossessed of their assets and lost their political influence. Rather than promoting religious integration and unity, American policy in Iraq exacerbated sectarian divisions and created a fertile breading ground for Sunni discontent, from which Al Qaeda in Iraq took root.

The Islamic State of Iraq and Syria (ISIS) used to have a different name: Al Qaeda in Iraq. After 2010 the group rebranded and refocused its efforts on Syria.

There are essentially three wars being waged in Syria: one between the government and the rebels, another between Iran and Saudi Arabia, and yet another between America and Russia. It is this third, neo-Cold War battle that made U.S. foreign policy makers decide to take the risk of arming Islamist rebels in Syria, because Syrian President, Bashar al-Assad, is a key Russian ally. Rather embarrassingly, many of these Syrian rebels have now turned out to be ISIS thugs, who are openly brandishing American-made M16 Assault rifles.
http://www.globalresearch.ca/america-created-al-qaeda-and-the-isis-terror-group/5402881
 

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basically what is written above sounds to me like -

1. Don't touch evil, coz it might produce worse
2. If a country has bad laws, it is as bad as a terrorist group that invades left and right

Yeah, no.. :rolleyes:
 

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I have thought about these things myself.
Whilst most Western countries are secular and tolerant of other religions, or lack thereof, places like Saudi Arabia are not.
That, along with public executions for what we would consider trivial matters, are of particular concern.
Unfortunately right now we have to pander to such countries for support against a common enemy, hopefully that will change in the near future.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
I have thought about these things myself.
Whilst most Western countries are secular and tolerant of other religions, or lack thereof, places like Saudi Arabia are not.
That, along with public executions for what we would consider trivial matters, are of particular concern.
Unfortunately right now we have to pander to such countries for OIL, hopefully that will change in the near future.
Fixed it got u :wavey:
 

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If anything, the graph shows how the US and Saudi Arabia are different.

As to the rest, I basically concur with the Uncle.
 
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USA and the West historically joined at the hip this horrific political regime...ISIS is an unfinished Saudi Arabia :lol:

For once we agree. People overestimate America and it's bullsh** propaganda. We care about human rights but not when it applies to our "Arab" partners or certain other country in that region. Whatever. I suppose people who are for "freedom" army of the US don't mind all the innocent people killed during these wars, all the drone strikes that killed innocent people over phony wars .... none of that stuff. I mean Black lives matter but if you are a brown guy from Afghanistan or Iraq, screw you. We will drop a bomb, kill all your family, and maybe, just maybe get a terrorist too, or maybe not.

USA caused this shitstorm named ISIS 12 years ago when they've removed Hussein from power. The rest is history (overthrowing Gaddafi, Libya basically a dead state, Syria, Iraq in ruins, civil wars, chaos). The list goes on and on.

How did the western media called it? Arab spring? Yeah, my ass.
Yup ... It is what it is. Look, there are people in this world who defend that white lady who thinks she is black as if she is not a liar ... So defending all these wars, failed strategies, and killings would be nothing. Probably 50% of people in this country think Operation Arab Spring was a success.
 

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I have thought about these things myself.
Whilst most Western countries are secular and tolerant of other religions, or lack thereof, places like Saudi Arabia are not.
That, along with public executions for what we would consider trivial matters, are of particular concern.
Unfortunately right now we have to pander to such countries for support against a common enemy, hopefully that will change in the near future.
:confused:

What enemy does Australia have in Middle East? And how exactly those regimes/countries became enemies of Australia? Listen to yourself-- enemies!

How can people be so stupid to repeat political bah*t?! :facepalm: Especially young people. Especially those who are fans of tennis, a very intelligent sport.

Told that many times, will repeat again-- politics are about money and power (so that you could make more money). Always.
 

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I have thought about these things myself.
Whilst most Western countries are secular and tolerant of other religions, or lack thereof, places like Saudi Arabia are not.
This is really true actually, I've never really thought about it like that.

People talk about tolerance and stuff, but these places do not reciprocate.
That isn't right, and definitely makes me think less of places such as Saudi Arabia.

We may have our flaws over here, but we've got nothing on them IMO.
 

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America is even more repulsive than ISIS, being the biggest mass murderers of our time.
 

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ISIS is interesting. The way corrupted liberal Western media trivialize this phenomena by reducing it to being a bunch of ruthless fanatics makes it even more interesting. Yet it attracts a lot of people from all over the world. It attracts a lot os sympathizers - a lot of them being nice good people - from those very Western countries and it's appeal keeps on growing. We are missing something here, obviously. And for as long as we fail to understand this phenomena and fail to address its core source, we won't be winning. Al Qaeda never had this kind of following.. And Saudi Arabian government does not have much of social following. These guys do. And there is obviously a reason why.
 

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ISIS is interesting. The way corrupted liberal Western media trivialize this phenomena by reducing it to being a bunch of ruthless fanatics makes it even more interesting. Yet it attracts a lot of people from all over the world. It attracts a lot os sympathizers - a lot of them being nice good people - from those very Western countries and it's appeal keeps on growing. We are missing something here, obviously. And for as long as we fail to understand this phenomena and fail to address its core source, we won't be winning. Al Qaeda never had this kind of following.. And Saudi Arabian government does not have much of social following. These guys do. And there is obviously a reason why.
It's not that hard to understand. America invades Arab countries to gain money and power, murdering countless of civilians in the process, while their number one ally Israel brutally oppresses the Palestinians. That is bound to breed extremism and terrorism. Repeat cycle.
 

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It's not that hard to understand. America invades Arab countries to gain money and power, murdering countless of civilians in the process, while their number one ally Israel brutally oppresses the Palestinians. That is bound to breed extremism and terrorism. Repeat cycle.
And this is just as simplistic and single-dimensional as the traditional western narrative. This is an obviously important aspect, but there's not much change in that aspect in last 40 years. Yet there has never been a pan-Islamist movement with the following of this level of penetration even among well assimilated western Muslims. So, there's obviously more than that.
 

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And this is just as simplistic and single-dimensional as the traditional western narrative. This is an obviously important aspect, but there's not much change in that aspect in last 40 years. Yet there has never been a pan-Islamist movement with the following of this level of penetration even among well assimilated western Muslims. So, there's obviously more than that.
I agree. And it raises questions I don't know the answer to. For instance, we know from history that movements can spring up from the efforts of particularly 'charismatic' individuals which then fade over time because the leader's personality was more important than the message. Is Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi such a man? His portrayal in the Western media has never suggested as such - certainly not to the extent of others such as Bin Laden - but I don't have enough information to know for sure whether he or others fit the 'charismatic leader' profile.

Of course that's just one potential contributing factor.
 

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And this is just as simplistic and single-dimensional as the traditional western narrative. This is an obviously important aspect, but there's not much change in that aspect in last 40 years. Yet there has never been a pan-Islamist movement with the following of this level of penetration even among well assimilated western Muslims. So, there's obviously more than that.
my first thought as well.
 

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I agree. And it raises questions I don't know the answer to. For instance, we know from history that movements can spring up from the efforts of particularly 'charismatic' individuals which then fade over time because the leader's personality was more important than the message. Is Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi such a man? His portrayal in the Western media has never suggested as such - certainly not to the extent of others such as Bin Laden - but I don't have enough information to know for sure whether he or others fit the 'charismatic leader' profile.

Of course that's just one potential contributing factor.
One another contributing factor could be in some overly and unnecessarily aggressive liberal tendencies taking place lately - those that are particularly offensive even for well assimilated Muslims. One example of that is freedom-of-speech - taking sometimes clearly inciting forms. Charlie Hebdo like stuff. Another one is accentuated and very much amplified by media gay rights changes. Those changes go in openly triumphant and intentionally into-your-face to those opposing those changes manner. Muslim communities don't have much to say in those situations, but I have very little doubt that they - in their majority - wholeheartedly hate it. This is a phenomena of last decade, and it direct feeds the ISIS, no doubt.

Of course no ISIS would ever be possible even in a fetus form should Saddam, Kaddafi have been around, should Asad have been still in full control. The vacuum of power in vast territories is an absolute prerequisite and we know who delivered it.

And , of course, ISIS looks much smarter than Al Qaeda. Al Qaeda thought that blowing a couple of buildings in NY amounts to striking in the heart of infidel. They only brought the might of all American military upon themselves. ISIS figured that taking control over Middle East would serve a much heavier blow to West. Al Qaeda was presenting themselves as a conspiring underground/guerrilla force. ISIS presents itself as a fully functional brotherhood-state living by its rules of idealistic Islam. Guess which concept is more appealing to Muslims all over the world.

And the last. I am pretty sure, it's not some self-appointed marginals that run the show. There are some very serious people, very serious organizational force behind ISIS. And I have no idea what is that and what their long-term agenda is.
 

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One another contributing factor could be in some overly and unnecessarily aggressive liberal tendencies taking place lately - those that are particularly offensive even for well assimilated Muslims. One example of that is freedom-of-speech - taking sometimes clearly inciting forms. Charlie Hebdo like stuff.
People cry to high heaven when the West interferes in other countries. Yet somehow it is justified when Muslim radicals in the Middle East take offence at what the West does in its own countries as well?

Another one is accentuated and very much amplified by media gay rights changes. Those changes go in openly triumphant and intentionally into-your-face to those opposing those changes manner. Muslim communities don't have much to say in those situations, but I have very little doubt that they - in their majority - wholeheartedly hate it. This is a phenomena of last decade, and it direct feeds the ISIS, no doubt.
Same point as above. This time the hypocrisy is even worse as it has to do directly with trying to continuously subjugate en entire group of people based on fictional desert scribbles. Instead of decidedly speaking out against such prejudice, people like you try to "explain", thereby justifying, the behaviour of radically irrational people who clearly want to bring the world back to a more barbaric state.
 
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