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Where will Djokovic finish?

  • 357-368, Djokovic will surpass Gonzales and Renshaw but not Tilden

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@Johnny Groove is talking too much nonsense a little bit. Djokovic almost has the YE # 1 locked up. Nadal and Thiem need a MIRACLE to top Novak. It would require Nadal or Thiem to win the Paris Indoor Masters and Nadal to win the World Tour Finals undefeated with Djokovic going out in the Group Stage.

And if Nole wins tomorrow that YE # 1 is definitly locked up the way the Rankings were adjusted in the COVID-19 Aera.

Also that April 2022 is wrong. Nole needs to stay atop the Rankings until the end of February.
 

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Top players played Davis Cup for their countries. Playing singles and doubles was very common for the best players. Players often traveled long distances in trains, buses and automobiles, and even ships instead of air travel. Players with family often had to leave them for long periods, making life quite lonely. Many put off having family until they retired. Players played on courts that were tough in those days, having to adapt to irregular conditions on grass courts. You almost had to play serve and volley because who knows what direction and speed the ball could take after bouncing. Players played on grass, clay, carpet, wood, even linoleum. Many chose to stay with one surface and become specialists, rather than attempt to adapt to the variety. The money these players made was laughable compared to today. Laver made under $25,000 for winning THE Grand Slam (all 4 majors) in 1969. Today it would be over 10 million.
Well, that's at least $200,000 in today's money so it's not that bad considering how much less revenue the tennis could expect back then from commercials and stuff. Also you are forgetting that the competition and the talent pool today is vastly bigger/global and pretty much incomparable with that time; almost until the 80s it was just Australians winning Australian Open and Americans and Australians winning USO.
 

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Tbh, he can easily surpass all of them. Just think about it.. In next 2-3 years, who will be his biggest rival in terms of consistency? I pick Thiem. I seriously doubt Nadal can push himself throughout the whole year anymore. But Thiem, as all other youngsters, is still awful on grass and that's a big advantage for Novak compared to the rest of the field. And that guy is a serious threat on every single god damn tournament/surface he is playing, with no exception. It's simply impossible to kick him out in early stages of a tournament. Yeah.. Two more years at no1 is very possible for him...
 

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Discussion Starter #44
Doesn't change the fact that Laver won 8 slams by winning just 3 matches (1 of the 3 only being Bo3).
Almost always had to play vs 2 of Rosewall/Gonzales/Hoad to win them. No free rides here

Plus only 3 chances a year to win slams instead of 4

@Johnny Groove is talking too much nonsense a little bit. Djokovic almost has the YE # 1 locked up. Nadal and Thiem need a MIRACLE to top Novak. It would require Nadal or Thiem to win the Paris Indoor Masters and Nadal to win the World Tour Finals undefeated with Djokovic going out in the Group Stage.

And if Nole wins tomorrow that YE # 1 is definitly locked up the way the Rankings were adjusted in the COVID-19 Aera.

Also that April 2022 is wrong. Nole needs to stay atop the Rankings until the end of February.
Fed's 310 is the computer era record, I agree, but not the all time record

I also agree Djokovic has it almost sewn up but he cannot afford to get lax here. There are many more slams needed to be won and weeks at #1 to achieve for him to be GOAT, as are his stated goals

Tbh, he can easily surpass all of them. Just think about it.. In next 2-3 years, who will be his biggest rival in terms of consistency? I pick Thiem. I seriously doubt Nadal can push himself throughout the whole year anymore. But Thiem, as all other youngsters, is still awful on grass and that's a big advantage for Novak compared to the rest of the field. And that guy is a serious threat on every single god damn tournament/surface he is playing, with no exception. It's simply impossible to kick him out in early stages of a tournament. Yeah.. Two more years at no1 is very possible for him...
Well he needs every week from here until Apr 2022. No one knows if he will fall to the next great champion or a squad of next generational contenders, or by his own hand (USO 2020), or hopefully not an injury.

83 weeks is a long ways away, but let's just focus on Schwartzman first. That is 400 points right there in one match. Those 400 could go a long way to keeping #1 every week of 2021, and not pulling a Sampras and losing weeks here and there
 

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A monumental effort which deserves nothing but praise.

I believe that numbers alone cannot describe what most of MTF seems to want these days: a clear cut GOAT. People trying to get meaning out of holding the reigns of tennis for a long time will be thoroughly disappointed to see they cannot understand the historical context.

Are we gonna judge Julius Caesar against the dominance of Napoleon because roman weapons were simply primitive compared to the latter's? History deserves more respect than what most of the current tennis world can provide.
 

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Discussion Starter #48
Nice work!!!
Which ranking system did you use to compute these numbers?
Sources included

tennisarchives.com
thetennisbase.com
all of wikipedia
My own basic common sense
Calendars dating back to 1880's to see if that year had 52 or 53 Mondays
Check out the pdf attached on the OP, I give exact dates of gaining and losing #1
 

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Almost always had to play vs 2 of Rosewall/Gonzales/Hoad to win them. No free rides here

Plus only 3 chances a year to win slams instead of 4

Fed's 310 is the computer era record, I agree, but not the all time record

I also agree Djokovic has it almost sewn up but he cannot afford to get lax here. There are many more slams needed to be won and weeks at #1 to achieve for him to be GOAT, as are his stated goals

Well he needs every week from here until Apr 2022. No one knows if he will fall to the next great champion or a squad of next generational contenders, or by his own hand (USO 2020), or hopefully not an injury.

83 weeks is a long ways away, but let's just focus on Schwartzman first. That is 400 points right there in one match. Those 400 could go a long way to keeping #1 every week of 2021, and not pulling a Sampras and losing weeks here and there
Novak missed a great chance to built his Points Total by getting disqualified at New York. Had he reached he Final there but lost to Thiem he would have locked up the Ranking until end of February 2021 to pass Roger.
 

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Discussion Starter #50
Novak missed a great chance to built his Points Total by getting disqualified at New York. Had he reached he Final there but lost to Thiem he would have locked up the Ranking until end of February 2021 to pass Roger.
Yes that was a very big missed chance, he cannot afford to miss anymore
 

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Hate to be that guy who starts a controversy, but I am already seeing flaws in this COVID protected system. A player should forfeit points from a 2019 tournament once they play in the 2020 edition. The max rule makes rankings semi frozen. Sure, keep 2019 points if they want to skip, but once skin is in the game, it should matter.

I am actually debating this with the ATP too, 2020 calendar has been refilled, players are just taking advantage of it to make rankings count even more than they should. Risk has been taken out of the equation in the form of health risk > ranking risk.

Novak's weeks beyond 282 are asterisked and unfortunately for him, it will be viewed as that. He can solve this controversy with an extra set of 22 weeks to his tally. Say, if he gets 400, he will be undisputed all time.
 

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Novak's weeks beyond 282 are asterisked and unfortunately for him, it will be viewed as that. He can solve this controversy with an extra set of 22 weeks to his tally. Say, if he gets 400, he will be undisputed all time.
I think you're just presenting your own views and wishful thinking as if they are facts. There isn't any controversy and there isn't any asterisk. How do I know this? Because the ATP didn't asterisk anything (and they won't) and neither will the records books. So, opinions/wishful thinking are irrelevant. Also, coronavirus already robbed Novak of many weeks as #1 and the ATP did as well when they decided to freeze everything and not let him count the weeks at #1 for the points that he had earned in the previous 52 weeks.
 

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Novak's weeks beyond 282 are asterisked and unfortunately for him, it will be viewed as that. He can solve this controversy with an extra set of 22 weeks to his tally. Say, if he gets 400, he will be undisputed all time.
So,it means,it's also asterisked for 40-15rer,since no one on the tour was able to gain points for a 4-5 month and cut the gap,no?
 

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So,it means,it's also asterisked for 40-15rer,since no one on the tour was able to gain points for a 4-5 month and cut the gap,no?
Exactly. If he wants to asterisk (in his head) Novak's weeks at 1, then he may as well asterisk Federer's as well for coronavirus and ATP saving him when everything froze.
 

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Wow, you guys are immediately on the fence. Talk about insecurity. Nobody said these were official decisions. Of course, the ATP is not asterisking anything. What the hell does it even mean to have something asterisked?

This situation is beneficial for Federer because he can't play, he gets preserved. But I am also saying that, once you do decide to play, you should drop previously gained points, as if you are defending them. Not just Novak, everyone, mates of the NoleFam group, everyone. It will probably not happen either, ATP took the decision already. The asterisk is not wishful thinking nor is it some official status, it's just how some will view it, you can either accept that or kill the messenger. I would assume that, for some NoleFam members, the kill part is literal, nobody pisses them off and gets away with it.
 

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How does this weird scary asterisk look? Simple...

Novak Djokovic (341 weeks)*

*21 weeks were not recorded due to COVID-19. 52 weeks gained while ATP was using a different ranking system.
 

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Novak's weeks beyond 282 are asterisked and unfortunately for him, it will be viewed as that. He can solve this controversy with an extra set of 22 weeks to his tally. Say, if he gets 400, he will be undisputed all time.
What asterisk? Djoko would be #1 even in standard 52-week system as well as in the system with dropping points from the previous edition (if a player takes part). He's the best regardless of the calculation method.
 

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What asterisk? Djoko would be #1 even in standard 52-week system as well as in the system with dropping points from the previous edition (if a player takes part). He's the best regardless of the calculation method.
Unfortubately, you can't know that. If we count only the past 52 weeks, Djokovic is ahead of Thiem by only 1200 pts, which means Djokovic would not have #1 secure across RG. If it would have been a normal season, we don't know how it would have played out.
 

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Unfortubately, you can't know that. If we count only the past 52 weeks, Djokovic is ahead of Thiem by only 1200 pts, which means Djokovic would not have #1 secure across RG. If it would have been a normal season, we don't know how it would have played out.
But it wasn't a normal year and the whole world had to adapt. As of now Djoko is #1 regardless of calculation system so there's absolutely no asterisk. If a divergence occurs at some point then it will be debatable.
 

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The asterisk is not wishful thinking nor is it some official status, it's just how some will view it, you can either accept that or kill the messenger.
Some will always whine about something, nobody cares though. Same conditions apply for everybody, not like Novak is playing by one set of rules and the rest of ATP by another.
 
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