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Discussion Starter #1
I'm sure there will be video soon.

Pouille's shot looks out (still unsure if it was or not), Sousa casually hits a slice forehand with no footwork way out and immediately puts his hand up to challenge. Not allowed to. Sousa loses the set a point later.

For all the outrage against Layhani, this was an equally shocking decision that probably effected Sousa more than that did Herbert.
 

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The call was correct IMO :shrug:

Sousa looked at the lob bouncing, hit it late and when his own shot got called out, he put up his hand and wanted a challenge. It was too late for him to challenge such a slow lob.

ETA: It looked to me that Pouille's lob was really out, though. Problem is also that in other instances, umpires (wrongly) do allow late challenges.
 

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I don't know if it was the wrong call from the umpire. It did not look like an instant challenge, he put his hand up when he realised his shot went out
 

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So how much time was between bounce of the ball and Sousa's decision to Challenge? If it was significantly more than 1 second then he shouldn't be allow to Challenge, it doesn't matter if he hits the shot casually or not, because we have seen players do that before and they keep on playing without challenging.

If the shot was a lob like mentioned above and Souse didn't Challenge until his own shot bounced out then it was definitely too late. Again it depends on the time, because if your opponent hits a massive serve or groundstroke you can sometimes still Challenge that after you missed your own shot, because there is little time to react.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
I have never seen someone be denied the challenge in that situation, especially how casually he hit the last shot out.

Should be winning anyway though, currently choking away the 3rd in horrible fashion.
 

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It was an immediate challenge. Sousa even put his index finger up while he was hitting the shot and then put both his arms up maybe half a second later. Terrible call.
 

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If it was any top player in place of Sousa they would be allowed to challenge. Bizarre call to give Pouille break point.
 

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So how much time was between bounce of the ball and Sousa's decision to Challenge? If it was significantly more than 1 second then he shouldn't be allow to Challenge, it doesn't matter if he hits the shot casually or not, because we have seen players do that before and they keep on playing without challenging.

If the shot was a lob like mentioned above and Souse didn't Challenge until his own shot bounced out then it was definitely too late. Again it depends on the time, because if your opponent hits a massive serve or groundstroke you can sometimes still Challenge that after you missed your own shot, because there is little time to react.
1 second? Players take way more than that.
 

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1 second? Players take way more than that.
It depends on the situation obviously. I'm talking about the scenario that took place here. Sousa could've purposely waited until his own shot lands out, because he would continued the rally otherwise. That is called cheating.

If you Challenge your own shot that was called out than you have more time because the point is over anyway at that moment.
 

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It was an immediate challenge. Sousa even put his index finger up while he was hitting the shot and then put both his arms up maybe half a second later. Terrible call.

When you want to challenge a slow lob of an opponent, you shouldn't hit the ball at all.
 

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The call was correct IMO :shrug:

Sousa looked at the lob bouncing, hit it late and when his own shot got called out, he put up his hand and wanted a challenge. It was too late for him to challenge such a slow lob.

ETA: It looked to me that Pouille's lob was really out, though. Problem is also that in other instances, umpires (wrongly) do allow late challenges.
No, the problem is with those who do not allow. What bad will happen to tennis by allowing late challenges? Why should a player who sent the ball out win the point if there is the possibility to correct the mistake?
 

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It depends on the situation obviously. I'm talking about the scenario that took place here. Sousa could've purposely waited until his own shot lands out, because he would continued the rally otherwise. That is called cheating.

If you Challenge your own shot that was called out than you have more time because the point is over anyway at that moment.
Why is it cheating? If he's right, he wins the point as he should, if he's wrong he loses the point as he should.
 

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No, the problem is with those who do not allow. What bad will happen to tennis by allowing late challenges? Why should a player who sent the ball out win the point if there is the possibility to correct the mistake?

Seriously? :confused:

You can't hit the ball, wait until you see the own ball is flying wide and then challenge the ball before. As the umpire explained to Sousa, he got a 2nd chance to win the point and that is unfair.
 

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Seriously? :confused:

You can't hit the ball, wait until you see the own ball is flying wide and then challenge the ball before. As the umpire explained to Sousa, he got a 2nd chance to win the point and that is unfair.
No, what's unfair is that a player who sent the ball out of the limits of the court won the point. It is the first guy, who by not having his out ball called, gets an incorrect opportunity to win the point.
 

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No, what's unfair is that a player who sent the ball out of the limits of the court won the point. It is the first guy, who by not having his out ball called, gets an incorrect opportunity to win the point.

In an ideal world, any ball that is out gets called out immediately by a technical system but we don't have that yet. We only have challenges and the players have to use them correctly.
 

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In an ideal world, any ball that is out gets called out immediately by a technical system but we don't have that yet. We only have challenges and the players have to use them correctly.
Yes, that would be ideal. Until then, I'm saying what should be the policy regarding when to challenge. Imo, until the server starts the service motion of the following point, the challenge should be accepted.
 

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Yes, that would be ideal. Until then, I'm saying what should be the policy regarding when to challenge. Imo, until the server starts the service motion of the following point, the challenge should be accepted.

And that would be unfair to one of the players as explained in this thread. If you want unfairness, your solution would of course work well.
 

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And that would be unfair to one of the players as explained in this thread. If you want unfairness, your solution would of course work well.
Nope, it wouldn't be unfair, whether the Hawk-Eye says the ball is Out or In, the correct player wins the point.

Look at it this way, an out ball not being called forces the guy who got "cheated" to play to win a point he should have already won. In case he was not cheated and the ball was In, then he loses the point, so no harm done.

If the challenge is denied, if the ball was In, the correct player wins the point, but if it was Out, the incorrect player wins the point, so, harm done. In addition, the player who was denied the challenge can get quite annoyed and have that point bothering him for a while.

It's actually quite clear to see my proposal is better than the current rule.
 
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