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Rankings Master
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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Brought to you by the OER system, a full pass through until March 2021 (projections beyond December 7) of the ATP Rankings without the ranking freeze or the 24-month rule:


There you have it, folks. The complete mathematical evidence of how the rankings would have looked week by week throughout 2020 without any pandemic freeze of the rankings.

A few observations:
- Djokovic would have started week 300 on August 24
- Djokovic would have started week 311 on November 2
- Djokovic would now be on Week 315

  • Nadal would now have been at 213 weeks at #1
  • Thiem would have been as close as 130 points to being #1 on September 14
  • Federer (the so-called-by-some-German-dude architect of all this, even though Djokovic was still president at the time the freeze started) would have now been ranked 28
  • Projections would have shown Djokovic guaranteed to reach 326 weeks.

Please link to this thread every time either:
A. Someone says Djokovic was protected by the ranking freeze and would have lost number 1 without it
Erm, that's it.

@bhdtl @DjokoKing I stand corrected!

@Yolita I believe will want to see this thread...

Debate ahead...
 

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Your visions will happen
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Brought to you by the OER system, a full pass through until March 2021 (projections beyond December 7) of the ATP Rankings without the ranking freeze or the 24-month rule:


There you have it, folks. The complete mathematical evidence of how the rankings would have looked week by week throughout 2020 without any pandemic freeze of the rankings.

A few observations:
- Djokovic would have started week 300 on August 24
- Djokovic would have started week 311 on November 9
- Djokovic would now be on Week 314

  • Nadal would now have been at 213 weeks at #1
  • Thiem would have been as close as 130 points to being #1 on September 14
  • Federer (the so-called-by-some-German-dude architect of all this, even though Djokovic was still president at the time the freeze started) would have now been ranked 28
  • Projections would have shown Djokovic guaranteed to reach 325 weeks.

Please link to this thread every time either:
A. Someone says Djokovic was protected by the ranking freeze and would have lost number 1 without it
Erm, that's it.

@bhdtl @DjokoKing I stand corrected!

@Yolita I believe will want to see this thread...

Debate ahead...
What great work, wow!

Djokovic in this projections would be on pace to pass Tilden with 370 weeks on the last Monday in December '21, coinciding with his 7th YE #1. If Djokovic wins 3 slams in 2021, he is the GOAT
 

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Administrator | Chaos Theory
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Sorry but I get my rankings facts from @Yolita. Maybe she can join this discussion.
You're a little daft. Slasher is the expert on these things. He literally devoted his life to making a rankings website and finding supporting evidence for Vilas #1.
 

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Brought to you by the OER system, a full pass through until March 2021 (projections beyond December 7) of the ATP Rankings without the ranking freeze or the 24-month rule:


There you have it, folks. The complete mathematical evidence of how the rankings would have looked week by week throughout 2020 without any pandemic freeze of the rankings.

A few observations:
- Djokovic would have started week 300 on August 24
- Djokovic would have started week 311 on November 9
- Djokovic would now be on Week 314

  • Nadal would now have been at 213 weeks at #1
  • Thiem would have been as close as 130 points to being #1 on September 14
  • Federer (the so-called-by-some-German-dude architect of all this, even though Djokovic was still president at the time the freeze started) would have now been ranked 28
  • Projections would have shown Djokovic guaranteed to reach 325 weeks.

Please link to this thread every time either:
A. Someone says Djokovic was protected by the ranking freeze and would have lost number 1 without it
Erm, that's it.

@bhdtl @DjokoKing I stand corrected!

@Yolita I believe will want to see this thread...

Debate ahead...
Hi, Slasher. I enjoyed reading those numbers..

I have a few observations.

According to me, March 23rd would have been Novak's week #283 as #1. You have it as #282. Rankings kept going for one more week after IW was due to start, on account of some challengers being played. So the Rankings froze on March 16 and it was Novak's week #282.

My exercise about Real Rankings was done assuming all points drop after 52 weeks. I wanted to keep the original meaning of rankings as measuring performance over the previous 52 weeks. I didn't want to take previous changes of rules into consideration because it's a slippery slope and hypothetical.

My point is that Novak has been the player who has earned more points the previous 52 weeks for 319 Mondays.

I'm glad your calculations also show that he would have passed Roger's 310 weeks this year and would have ended the year as #1 for the 6th time.

But I'd rather not make the argument: "If the rules had been changed in this way and not in this other way..."

I prefer to stick to the original definition of rankings and what they measure.

I will definitely link people to this thread when they start with their nonsense in March. Because they will start. 😂
 

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You're a little daft. Slasher is the expert on these things. He literally devoted his life to making a rankings website and finding supporting evidence for Vilas #1.
If you see my #RealRankings, you will see they are very similar, but I set out to calculate rankings assuming all points drop after 52 weeks, as they do normally. I will do the same in January and will drop the Australian Open points when they are supposed to drop.
Slasher assumed that rules would have been changed as they have in the past. I didn't want to assume that.
I wanted to measure performance over the previous 52 weeks.
So we got different results because we measured different things.
I like this very much, because any way you look at it, with 52-week performance (like I did), with rules changed as they have in the past (like Slasher did) or with the new COVID rules (like the ATP did), the fact is that Novak would have ended the year as #1 for a 6th time and would have passed Roger's record of 310 weeks as #1.
More emphatic: impossible.
 

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Wow, 2020 turns out to be a pure robbery of potentially very harvest year for King. Disgusting. The ATP/ITF pro-Fedal mafia in full force.
 

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Rankings Master
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Discussion Starter #8
If you see my #RealRankings, you will see they are very similar, but I set out to calculate rankings assuming all points drop after 52 weeks, as they do normally. I will do the same in January and will drop the Australian Open points when they are supposed to drop.
Slasher assumed that rules would have been changed as they have in the past. I didn't want to assume that.
I wanted to measure performance over the previous 52 weeks.
So we got different results because we measured different things.
I like this very much, because any way you look at it, with 52-week performance (like I did), with rules changed as they have in the past (like Slasher did) or with the new COVID rules (like the ATP did), the fact is that Novak would have ended the year as #1 for a 6th time and would have passed Roger's record of 310 weeks as #1.
More emphatic: impossible.
Excellent work with that BTW.

I forgot that ATP didn't count Mar 16, I will add 1 week to a guaranteed of 326.

As to the GS Drop exception rule, I know it from the ATP Ranking Committee, so it is quite logical they would apply it evwry time it happens, as it covers a very rare event of Grand Slam movement. It is usually accepted with the agreement of the Player Council, which has very rarely voted against an ATP Ranking decision. But yes, it is an assumption, high chance of good one, but still one.
 

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Yolita it is time to make Netflix documentary on robbery of Djokovic 2020 from being GOAT.
 
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Mcenroe: Yeah YOLITA was right! I really thought Federer was gonna keep the ranking. I was flat out wrong. Ya know what they like to say: A great statistician makes a great drinker.

Wilander: GamesetsYolita. We knew about Djokovic breaking GOAT record since 2005. He was GOAT back then too.

Robbie Koenig: YOU GOT TO BE KIDDING ME. THIS YOLITA IS OUT OF THEIR MIND! PREDICTING THAT DJOKOVIC WOULD BE A GOD AMONG MEN.

Chris Folwer: Yolita predicting this ranking robbery is next on 8:00 on ESPN, Im Chris Folwer, with Chris Evert , goodnight American and Congratulations to the real #1 NOAVK Jockovic (mispronounces)

@Darth Vaderer : The plan from Team 8 and the Federesian horde was intercepted by the true power.... of the light side.
 

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If you see my #RealRankings, you will see they are very similar, but I set out to calculate rankings assuming all points drop after 52 weeks, as they do normally. I will do the same in January and will drop the Australian Open points when they are supposed to drop.
Slasher assumed that rules would have been changed as they have in the past. I didn't want to assume that.
I wanted to measure performance over the previous 52 weeks.
So we got different results because we measured different things.
I like this very much, because any way you look at it, with 52-week performance (like I did), with rules changed as they have in the past (like Slasher did) or with the new COVID rules (like the ATP did), the fact is that Novak would have ended the year as #1 for a 6th time and would have passed Roger's record of 310 weeks as #1.
More emphatic: impossible.
oh fair enough, was just saying bhdtl shouldn't dismiss Slasher's findings as he has so much experience with this. Good to know multiple sources confirm the outcomes.

Actually, even back in March when the rankings were stopped, I felt that Djokovic would have very likely clinched the weeks at no.1 record anyway should the normal rankings be in play, with very little chance he is passed (only Nadal could reasonably have dethroned him for a short time, or a very good Thiem). The argument that the freeze benefited him as he might have lost the no.1 ranking is razor thin at best. The season played out the way I had expected.
 

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I wasn't dismissing it. All I meant was that everything I had been saying about the rankings came from what I read from Yolita ;)
 

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Mcenroe: Yeah YOLITA was right! I really thought Federer was gonna keep the ranking. I was flat out wrong. Ya know what they like to say: A great statistician makes a great drinker.

Wilander: GamesetsYolita. We knew about Djokovic breaking GOAT record since 2005. He was GOAT back then too.

Robbie Koenig: YOU GOT TO BE KIDDING ME. THIS YOLITA IS OUT OF THEIR MIND! PREDICTING THAT DJOKOVIC WOULD BE A GOD AMONG MEN.

Chris Folwer: Yolita predicting this ranking robbery is next on 8:00 on ESPN, Im Chris Folwer, with Chris Evert , goodnight American and Congratulations to the real #1 NOAVK Jockovic (mispronounces)

@Darth Vaderer : The plan from Team 8 and the Federesian horde was intercepted by the true power.... of the light side.
you have no idea mate....

 

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The writing has been on the wall that Rogie would end up third on the GOAT list since no later than 2012. It was an inevitability since no later than 2015
 

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No points could have been or were "earned" between Mar 16, and Aug 17, because of COVID stoppage of play during the normal playing season, and that's why all rankings were frozen until Aug 24..

All players rankings were protected by the COVID stoppage. If they had continued playing, anything could have happened. For example, If they had simply played the next tournament, Indian Wells, and RAFA had won the title, and Novak didn't make the SF, RAFA would have been #1 after the tournament.

In any case, once play and rankings resumed, Novak earned additional weeks ranked at #1 and finished YE#1 in the 2020 COVID shortened year.

----------------------------------

Also, the new COVID rules adopted, which allowed players to play tournaments without risk of losing their pre-COVID stoppage points, also protects all players rankings, but very importantly can hinder all players from improving their position relative to players who had good results in 2019, even if the former had better results after resumption. Why? Look at the following example:

Let's say Player A with 9,000 points prior to a major tournament, won the major tournament in 2019, and this year he lost in the 4th round, he would still keep 2019's 2000 points, not 2020's 180.
Player A prior to tournament points = 9000, player loses in 4th round, earning 180 points, but 2019 points of 2000 are retained because of new better result rules.
Player A after tournament points = 9000, instead of the normal 7180, which would have been a net loss of 1820 points for the tournament.

If Player B in that same tournament finished 4th in 2019, but won in 2020, he would add 1820 points to his own rankings, but still be net of 180 for the tournament behind player A instead of a net gain of 3640!

Player B prior to tournament points = 6180, player wins title, earning 2000 points, 2019's 180 points are dropped and replaced with 2000 points.
Player B after tournament points = 8000 , net gain of 1820 from 2019. But compared to Player A, has 180 less for the tournament, since player A retained 2000 points..

Under normal circumstances, after the tournament, player B would be ahead of player A , 8000 to 7180, but because of the new COVID rules, is still behind Player A, 9000 to 8000.

Should a player's points pre-COVID points drop, once he risks playing the tournament?


Responsibly,
masterclass
 

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Interesting numbers, but sadly, 100% unofficial. The 52 week count will begin again when it is counting only 52 weeks and not more.
 

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We shall see if Djokovic gets enough 52 week counts to overtake Federer.
 
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