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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
edit: now showing the 2009 TB System

Tiebreak System (TB)

TB System will have to be used in the event of both players/teams tipping the same amount of winners in a round.

For each round the manager must decide on 20 SR (set ratio) matches and these should be numbered SR1 > SR20 with SR1 also being a PTS (predict-the-score) match. This should be done for every round (where possible). These selected matches should be considered to be the most difficult to predict in the schedule. However selection of the matches chosen is always at the manager's discretion. For every 1st round of every draw (singles & doubles, main draw & qualifying) players should send PTS scores for all 20 SR matches. This is done to avoid any match being decided by ranking.

The new TT TB System:

Note: Matches with retirement won't count in the TB system.

1. Total # of Set Ratios correct: 1-20 (20 where possible) > if same then

2. Set Ratio shoot-out: 1-20 (compare SR1, SR2, SR3, etc.) > if same then

Note: When both players pick the loser, the shoot-out win goes to the one who gave more sets to the winner.

3. PTS 1 (1-20 in all first round matches)

Both players have incorrect winner in the PTS match: +2 points for every set predicted for the winner

Correct order of sets for:

1 set – 1 point
2 sets – 4 points
3 sets – 7 points
4 sets – 10 points
5 sets – 13 points

Correct scoreline for:

1 set – 3 points
2 sets – 6 points
3 sets – 9 points
4 sets – 12 points
5 sets – 15 points

4. Tournament Countback (CB) - # of correct picks from all the previous rounds (qualifying not counted)

5. CB1 (countback from previous round), CB2 (countback from two rounds back), CB3, etc.

6. Steps 1-3 from the previous round(s)

7. Game Difference and Number of Games System (taken from the PTS scores) (If the picked player of either TT-player loses, the PTS doesn't count for GD purposes; 20 possible GD matches in the first rounds)

The game difference and the number of games played is used.

example 1
player A - Federer 6-4 6-3 = +5 game difference and 19 games played
player B - Federer 6-4 7-5 = +4 game difference and 22 games played

result - Federer 6-4 7-6 = +3 game difference and 23 games played.

player A -> 2 game difference + 4 games played = 6
player B -> 1 game difference + 1 games played = 2

-> player B def player A

example 2
player A - Federer 6-1 1-6 7-6 = +1 game difference and 27 games played
player B - Federer 7-5 6-7 7-6 = +2 game difference and 38 games played

result - Federer 7-6 6-7 7-6 = +1 game difference and 39 games played.

player A -> 0 game difference + 12 games played = 12
player B -> 1 game difference + 1 games played = 2

-> player B def player A

If there's a tie, the player with the closer game difference will advance. If both players have the same game difference and the same number of games played, then

8. Ranking (the higher ranked player/team wins)
 

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Discussion Starter #2
examples (to come)

Please use this thread to ask any questions about the new TB System :wavey:
 

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Wait up... sorry if I'm stating the obvious, but we're not counting retirements AT ALL?

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for it... but I thought there was a resolution to leave it as it was and count ret. matches :scratch:
 

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#freeviktor
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Wait up... sorry if I'm stating the obvious, but we're not counting retirements AT ALL?

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for it... but I thought there was a resolution to leave it as it was and count ret. matches :scratch:
Yeah, I thought the decision was to count them as a winner, but not in the TB, ...as it was now. :scratch:
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Wait up... sorry if I'm stating the obvious, but we're not counting retirements AT ALL?

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for it... but I thought there was a resolution to leave it as it was and count ret. matches :scratch:
good question that needs clarification

The matches with retirement (one point played) will count as normal when you are counting how many picks the player has correct, nothing has changed there.

But the idea is not to count them if the match is tied and is decided by the TB System. For example, the match goes to TB part 3. SR shoot-out...SR1 is Verdasco vs Mathieu, Verdasco def. Mathieu 6-7 4-6 5-5 ret., player A has Verdasco and player B has Mathieu. In the old system player A would have won this, now this match won't count and we go the next SR.

The question that was left open was which parts of the TB System this would concern? This brings up another question, is there some cases where a match with retirement should count in the TB System (6-3 3-0 ret. for example)?
 

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6-3 3-0 ret. have to be counted..

tiptopdaisy lost a match in Lima this year.. he was needing Horna 2-0 in sets if not he will lost in the next SR..
and Horna won 6-0 3-0 ret.. so the match wasn`t counted for SR and he lost
 

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Discussion Starter #7
^The retirement rule in TB is clearly one matter that still needs to be resolved before the new season.
 

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the match only should be counted for TB Rule if the winner is break up in the final set of the match. and with 2 or 3 games difference in this last set
 

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Discussion Starter #10
the match only should be counted for TB Rule if the winner is break up in the final set of the match. and with 2 or 3 games difference in this last set
needs to be more specific, the rule has to be ironclad and that can work without livescores
 

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so. 2 or 3 games difference in the final set for the winner.

there wont be many situations like this next year. but I think there should be rule to solve any match like this.
 

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needs to be more specific, the rule has to be ironclad and that can work without livescores
forget livescores

if the result is:

Marcaccio 6-4 3-6 1-0 ret. = not counted
Marcaccio 6-4 5-7 3-0 ret. = counted like Marcaccio 2-1

Marcaccio 6-0 5-0 ret. = counted like Marcaccio 2-0
Marcaccio 6-0 1-0 ret. = not counted

only if the winner of the match is leading with a more than 2 games difference (or more games difference :shrug:)
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Marcaccio 6-0 2-0 ret. not counted, but
Marcaccio 6-0 3-0 ret. would count

:silly:

What would be your suggestion for the best of 5 matches?
 

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I lost in what i think is the most TT unlucky match of history to be played and a really sucky Retired match by gremelmayr vs fognini, fognini trailing 64 53RET and i lost on pts after having a difference of me picking fognini 2-0 vs 2-1.. :tape:

that sucked really bad.. but, apart from being a really rare case, in my opinion retiring matches shouldnt count at all.. (not even the 64 53)

let's not leave room for free interpretation cos this game is getting bigger and bigger.. and a rule is a rule, no exceptions..

What i mean is..sounds unfair to the person under that circunstance.. but, well.. it happened to me, and it was horrible cos i thought i deserved a win, but well.. that was it.. I kinda knew the rules and there was not much i could do.. i tried to ask if the match could be considered and i got a "no", which was fair enough.. and well..tried to leave it alone..


i thought it was really unfair but looking back i think "rules are rules" and no matter how close it was.. i only blame :retard: gremelmayr for retiring, not the rules.. those are clear and we should know them and be ok with them.. no matter what, and even if an specific case look unfair, rules apply for everyone.. leave the retired matches out of the tie break IMO :shrug:

lets save energy on discussing if a match should or should not be counted.. when retired.. we all must know they dont, unfair or not, those are the rules, deal with them
 

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Not really possible to post the differences with #2-Total # of Set Ratios correct: 1-10 ...
 

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I actually agree with Felipe for a change....

I would say a rule of "if the player is +3 games up in a set which can decide the match, it should be counted".

Nadal def. Federer 6-3 3-6 3-0 ---> counted.
Nadal def. Federer 6-3 3-0 ---> counted.
Nadal def. Federer 3-6 3-0 ---> not counted.
Nadal def. Federer 6-0 2-0 ---> not counted.
Nadal def. Federer 7-6 6-7 5-3 ---> not counted.
 

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the idea is to post the players picks in full (copy/paste from excel)

it's the easiest way :)
Can you send me the way you do yours on Excel out of interest......

I usually just stick them on Microsoft Word in order of matches :shrug:

I'll kind of miss the "What does Dana need" questions :sad:
 

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#freeviktor
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I actually agree with Felipe for a change....

I would say a rule of "if the player is +3 games up in a set which can decide the match, it should be counted".

Nadal def. Federer 6-3 3-6 3-0 ---> counted.
Nadal def. Federer 6-3 3-0 ---> counted.
Nadal def. Federer 3-6 3-0 ---> not counted.
Nadal def. Federer 6-0 2-0 ---> not counted.
Nadal def. Federer 7-6 6-7 5-3 ---> not counted.

I just feel that the Nadal def. Federer 7-6 6-7 5-3 situation can be so shady sometimes. There have been matches where players retire as a player is serving out the match :tape: and those are the matches where the loss hurts the most. One break is enough to win a set, I don't see why in the case of someone being 5-3, to win in TT they suddenly need TWO breaks. :shrug:

Honestly I say just don't count them at all in the TB, count them only as a win or a loss but not at all for SR or PTS. :shrug: That's my stance on the issue.
 

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Marcaccio 6-0 2-0 ret. not counted, but
Marcaccio 6-0 3-0 ret. would count

:silly:

What would be your suggestion for the best of 5 matches?
ok, so count 2 game difference. I prefer 1 break difference. but in challengers wont be possible.
but remember this situations are not usual

Marcaccio 6-0 2-0 ret. counted
Marcaccio 6-0 1-0 ret. not counted


about 5 set matches. only have to be counted for SRs
if the winners is leading in the last set.

Tsonga 6-4 6-3 2-0 ret. (counted like 3-0)
Tsonga 6-3 3-6 6-4 3-6 2-0 ret. (counted like 3-2)
Tsonga 6-4 4-6 1-0 ret. (not counted)
Tsonga 6-0 0-6 6-0 5-0 ret. (counted like 2-1)
 
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