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Rankings Master
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi all,

This is a request thread.

To anyone who may have this, or may now someone who has this, or may know someone who may know someone who has this.

I need to find a copy of a 1999 ATP Rulebook. If anyone can help, let me know.
 

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Rankings Master
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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Seems like a rare find, so I guess that means I will have to desciphre the mystery of the point tie breakers on my own somehow.

I see Tournament Points was one of the levels...
 

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Seems like a rare find, so I guess that means I will have to desciphre the mystery of the point tie breakers on my own somehow.

I see Tournament Points was one of the levels...


Slasher when trying to communicate with the ATP
 

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Seems like a rare find, so I guess that means I will have to desciphre the mystery of the point tie breakers on my own somehow.

I see Tournament Points was one of the levels...
You would like to know which measures were used rank players with the same number of ATP points in 1999?
What do you know already? At first sight it seems to me the first tie-breaker was number of tournaments played, but then...
 

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Rankings Master
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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
I have this, after much fiddling around
1. Most total points
if tied
2. Least tournaments counted
if tied
3. Most tournament points (not bonus points) on main draws
if tied
4. Best tournament, then next best and so on

With this, I do get good results on these players (27.12.99 ranks)
317 Dirk Dier - 118 16 107
318 Erlich 118 16 105
319 Macphie 118 16 104

And these
192 Willems 131 15 115
193 Dondo 131 15 64

But not these:
294 Cunha-Silva 131 18 69
295 Cabello 131 18 117

#294|Francisco Cabello|ARG|C457|06.12.1972|131|18|22|0|0|0|False|False|False|17|117|9|#295|Joao Cunha-Silva|POR|C113|27.11.1967|131|18|20|0|0|0|False|False|False|18|69|5|
ALLPTS|||15|15|12|7|7|4|4|1|1|1|1|1|1|1|1|1|ALLPTS|||19|14|13|13|13|9|8|8|7|7|5|4|1|1|1|1|1|1|
OT|||GR|||
SAT Portugal Circuit 2 25K|OC|32|0|CP53|37|1|06.11.2000|||CHAMP 625K Kitzbuhel|CL|64|24|(Q)R32|19|2|31.07.2000|||
SAT Portugal Circuit 1 25K|CL|32|0|CP40|20|0|05.06.2000|||CHAMP 875K Barcelona|CL|64|28|(Q)R64|8|1|17.04.2000|||
CHAL $50K+H Sylt|CL|32|0|QF|15|0|21.08.2000|||OT|||
CHAL $50K+H Lucknow|GR|32|0|QF|15|0|14.02.2000|||CHAL $37K+H Freudenstadt|CL|32|0|QF|14|1|11.09.2000|||
CHAL $125K+H Maia|CL|32|0|(WC)R16|12|2|12.06.2000|||CHAL $25K+H Aschaffenburg|CL|32|0|QF|13|0|11.09.2000|||
CHAL $25K+H Sofia|CL|32|0|R16|7|2|11.09.2000|||CHAL $25K+H Magdeburg|CP|32|0|QF|13|0|06.03.2000|||
CHAL $25K+H Madrid|OH|32|0|R16|7|0|14.08.2000|||CHAL $25K+H Punta Del Este|CL|32|0|QF|13|0|07.02.2000|||
15K Japan F2 Shirako|OC|32|32|QF|4|0|03.04.2000|||CHAL $100K Sao Paulo|CL|32|0|R16|9|1|16.10.2000|||
15K Japan F1 Isawa|CL|32|32|QF|4|0|27.03.2000|||CHAL $25K+H Budapest-2|CL|32|0|R16|7|2|18.09.2000|||
CHAL $25K+H Edinburgh|CL|32|0|R32|1|0|31.07.2000|||CHAL $50K+H Scheveningen|CL|32|0|R16|8|1|24.07.2000|||
CHAL $50K Manchester|GR|32|0|R32|1|0|17.07.2000|||CHAL $25K+H Manerbio|CL|32|0|R16|7|0|28.08.2000|||
CHAL $50K Bristol|GR|32|0|R32|1|0|10.07.2000|||Q GS French Open|CL|128|128|QR3|5|1|05.06.2000|||
CHAL $25K+H Eisenach|CL|32|0|R32|1|0|03.07.2000|||CHAL $25K+H Barletta|CL|32|0|(Q)R32|4|0|03.04.2000|||
CHAL $125K+H Espinho|CL|32|0|(WC)R32|1|0|01.05.2000|||CHAL $100K Caracas|OH|32|0|R32|1|0|04.12.2000|||
NC|||CHAL $100K Lima|CL|32|0|R32|1|0|23.10.2000|||
CHAL $50K+H Calcutta|GR|32|0|R32|1|0|07.02.2000|||NC|||
CHAL $25K+H Magdeburg|CP|32|0|R32|1|0|06.03.2000|||CHAL $25K+H Besancon|IH|32|0|R32|1|0|13.03.2000|||
15K Croatia F2 Zagreb|OH|32|32|R16|1|0|06.03.2000|||CHAL $25K+H Lugano|CL|32|0|R32|1|0|03.07.2000|||
CHAL $25K+H Kyoto|CP|32|0|R32|1|0|13.03.2000|||CHAL $25K+H Eisenach|CL|32|0|R32|1|0|03.07.2000|||
10K+H France F5 St. Brieuc|IC|32|32|R32|0|0|24.04.2000|||CHAL $25K+H Oberstaufen|CL|32|0|(LL)R32|1|0|10.07.2000|||
Q GS US Open|OH|128|128|QR1|0|0|11.09.2000|||Q WS 175K Casablanca|CL|32|32|QR2|0|0|27.03.2000|||
--------------------------------------------------Q WS 325K Atlanta|CL|32|32|QR1|0|0|01.05.2000|||
Q WS 250K Delray Beach|CL|32|32|QR3|0|0|08.05.2000|||
Q WS 475K Amsterdam|CL|32|32|QR3|0|0|07.08.2000|||
--------------------------------------------------

Trying to find what I'm missing.
 

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Rankings Master
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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
I have adjusted rule 3 to include Satellites, but not quali points where the player also attended the main draw, and now 294-295 and 317-319 work, but not 292-293. Dondo is now in front 125 to 123 tournament points.
 

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I have adjusted rule 3 to include Satellites, but not quali points where the player also attended the main draw, and now 294-295 and 317-319 work, but not 292-293. Dondo is now in front 125 to 123 tournament points.
Insane level of dedication and attention to detail, wow
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
I've cracked it.

If I add GS quallies into Tournament Points, all allign from there.

Which makes sense why the ATP website, when looking at player activity from 1999 display tournaments where the player was on the main draw as main draw pts only, but trns where they were in the quali draw only have those pts displayed.
 

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Rankings Master
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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
So, the rules for calculating Tournament Points was:
a) if qualified to main draws, only MD points were counted;
b) if not qualified and in a tournament with pts in qualifying rounds (GS, Championship Series SglWk or not) then QD Tournament points were counted;

And this is EXACTLY how the ATP website player activity is displayed for the 90s.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Latest tie breaker rule conclusions I have:

1. Most total points
if tied
2. Least tournaments counted (must have at least one point, penalties counted too)
if tied
3. Most tournament points (not bonus points) on main draws, Satellites or quali draws of Grand Slams and Championship Series (Super 9, Single Week or Double Up Week) - only if not qualified to main draw.
if tied
4. Best tournament, then next best and so on Not applied, so players are tied after rule 3.
 

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These could be an interesting read for some.

WTA Tour Statistical Abstract 1999

pages 33 and 34

"The WTA uses the “Best 18” ranking system — totalling the points earned in the eighteen tournaments where one earned the most points. For most of the Nineties, the ATP uses a related ranking system, “Best 14” — the total points earned in one’s best fourteen events. If this system were applied to the WTA, the results would be as follows: "

"
Best 18 with Slotted Point Awards (ATP Year 2000 Award)
This is the new men’s “ranking” system. I put “ranking” in quotes because it is not a ranking system. First, it is mathematically flawed in that not all players are treated equally (different systems are used for those who do and do not qualify for the Super Nines, making it discontinuous). Second, it is not a ranking; it is a
performance measurement. One might offer an analogy to the controls on a car: A true ranking system is a speedometer. But the new ATP system is an odometer.
Nonetheless, it is possible to use the slotted system as a ranking system at the end of the year. (Just as one can measure a car’s average speed using an odometer by driving for a set period of time and dividing
the odometer distance by time.)
The slotted system counts a player’s results in Slams, Super Nines (the equivalent of the Tier I tournaments on the WTA tour), and a handful of other events. Applying this system to the WTA produces the following:
In the table below, “Required Points” refers to points earned in the Required Events (Slams, Tier I, Chase Championship); “Optional Points” is what the players earned in their best other events."

- - - - -


"In 2000, the ATP Tour adopted a scheme in which only the best 14 (now 18) tournament results counted.

According to Weller Evans, who ran the rankings as ATP Tour vice president of player services from 1990 to 2005, that idea originated from Swiss player Heinz Gunthardt and his knowledge of ski racing, where only a certain number of best runs counted.

Through the years, tweaks continued.

Futures replaced satellites, where players earned points only after completing a series of events; competitions such as Davis Cup and the Olympics were awarded points; bonus points were eliminated.

"As we discovered over the years, no system is perfect," says Evans, who retired from the ATP in 2006 ..."


- - - - -


"...
Since 1990, a player's ranking has been based on the total points earned
from his best 14 results over the previous 52 weeks. He is not penalised
for first-round defeats, even if the losses occur at the Grand Slam
championships (the Australian Open, the French Open, Wimbledon and
the United States Open), where most points are at stake.
The best-14 system had its critics from the outset. "Imagine if Ivan Lendl
was a surgeon," mused an Italian colleague, Ubaldo Scanagatta, of La
Nazione . "He performs 14 perfect operations, and everything is
wonderful - never mind that he kills many others in the theatre."
Acknowledging a flaw in the system, Scott said: "If a player enters 28
events - not uncommon in today's game - then half of his results are not
calculated. Many believe the system has led to some lacklustre
performances and, in some cases, athletes playing too much to make up
for bad performances."
Endeavouring to rectify the situation, the ATP Tour is to make 13
tournaments mandatory: the four Grand Slams plus the Tour's Super 9
events, such as the recent $2.45m (£1.5m) Eurocard Open in Stuttgart
and $2.55m Open de Paris. A player's result in these tournaments will
always be calculated in the total. A no-show for any reason or a first-round
loss will result in zero points.
A player's points figure will also include his five best other tournament
results for a total of 18. Bonus points for defeating higher-ranked players
will be eliminated to ensure that the race and the ranking lists are the
same at year end. Results at the ATP Tour Championship will be added to
the final ranking figures for the eight players who qualify.
"I am in favour of the change," Britain's Tim Henman said, "but I still
think it needs to be a little bit clearer. It's better, because it's putting more
emphasis on the big tournaments. You've got to come and play in all of
them, and every match you play is going to count. Under the present
system I can turn up and lose in tournaments and not get penalised for it,
because I can go and play in more tournaments and make it up.
"Next year, the four Grand Slams and the nine Super 9s, which are our
[ATP Tour] majors, if you like, they're going to count on your ranking, and
I think that's a good thing. But the clearer and easier to understand they
can make it for for the public the better. Time will tell whether they're
able to do that."
Andre Agassi, who will finish 1999 as the world No 1, having slumped to
No 141 two years ago, said: "It's real simple. I want to be the best that I
can and try to win. However they score it, is how they score it. The
ranking system's not going to change. The ranking system is the same. It's
52 weeks.
"But it will be nice to have the tournaments with all the players there, and
try to win. It's good for the game ..."
 
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