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Old 06-16-2012, 01:48 AM   #526
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Default Re: H2H Turkeys: When being a pigeon just isn't enough. 10+ differential required

Quote:
Originally Posted by JediFed View Post
Roger Federer vs Juan Martin Del Potro

2012 Roland Garros Clay (O) QF Federer 3-6 6-7(4) 6-2 6-0 6-3
2012 IW Hard (O) QF Federer 6-3, 6-2
2012 Dubai Hard (O) SF Federer 7-6(5) 7-6(6)
2012 Rotterdam Hard (I) F Federer 6-1, 6-4
2012 Australian Open Hard (O) Q Federer 6-4, 6-3, 6-2
2011 Cincinnati . Hard (O) 32 Federer 6-3, 7-5
2009 TMC Hard (I) RR Del Potro 6-2, 6-7(5), 6-3
2009 US Open Hard (O) F Del Potro 3-6, 7-6(5), 4-6, 7-6(4), 6-2
2009 Roland Garros Clay (O) S Federer 3-6, 7-6(2), 2-6, 6-1, 6-4
2009 Madrid Clay (O) S Federer 6-3, 6-4
2009 Australian Open Hard (O) Q Federer 6-3, 6-0, 6-0
2008 Madrid Hard (I) Q Federer 6-3, 6-3
2007 Basel Hard (I) 16 Federer 6-1, 6-4
2007 Wimbledon Grass(O) 64 Federer 6-2, 7-5, 6-1

12-2.
a turkey who arguably won the most important match in the h2h.... you don't see that very often
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Old 06-16-2012, 01:50 AM   #527
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Default Re: H2H Turkeys: When being a pigeon just isn't enough. 10+ differential required

I loved it when Olderer double bageled him in AO
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Old 06-16-2012, 01:54 AM   #528
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Default Re: H2H Turkeys: When being a pigeon just isn't enough. 10+ differential required

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Originally Posted by abraxas21 View Post
a turkey who arguably won the most important match in the h2h.... you don't see that very often
Arguably? There's nothing bigger than a Grand Slam final.

And the turkeydom is mostly a product of circumstances. Federer would always have a dominant head-to-head as he's a nightmare matchup for JMDP, but 12-2 is greatly exaggerated: it's because they happened to face each other three times when Federer was #1 and Del Potro still a teenager and six times after Del Potro's surgery with him still trying to return to the top of the game.

It's still kind of ironic that Del Potro won the only Slam final between them considering the overall head-to-head, but I'd still argue that the 12-2 H2H is a misleadingly loopsided one. Hopefully JMDP is saving the third victory for when he faces Federer in a Slam final again

Last edited by Mark Lenders : 06-16-2012 at 02:00 AM.
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Old 06-16-2012, 02:02 AM   #529
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Default Re: H2H Turkeys: When being a pigeon just isn't enough. 10+ differential required

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Originally Posted by Mark Lenders View Post
Arguably? There's nothing bigger than a Grand Slam final.
I said "arguably" because I personally consider the RG 2009 SF the most important match between the two. I think even Federer wouldn't trade that SF victory over that US Open final he lost.


Quote:
And the turkeydom is mostly a product of circumstances. Federer would always have a dominant head-to-head as he's a nightmare matchup for JMDP, but 12-2 is greatly exaggerated: it's because they happened to face each other three times when Federer was #1 and Del Potro still a teenager and six times after Del Potro's surgery with him still trying to return to the top of the game.

It's still kind of ironic that Del Potro won the only Slam final between them considering the overall head-to-head, but I'd still argue that the 12-2 H2H is a misleadingly loopsided one.
h2h is exaggerated, i agree. after all, since that easy victory in the AO 2009, most of their matches have been fairly close with federer prevailing in all the tight ones (except of course that USO final).

i don't think federer is such a bad match up for del potro though. in the last few years federer has shown to be vulnerable to big hitters and big servers. his tight matches in the recent years to the likes of raonic, berdych, isner and del potro seem to be a testament of this.
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Old 06-16-2012, 02:04 AM   #530
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Default Re: H2H Turkeys: When being a pigeon just isn't enough. 10+ differential required

3 years and what has Delpo done? Nothing! That open 2009 was his greatest match, and i believe his one and only triumph.
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Old 06-16-2012, 02:06 AM   #531
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Default Re: H2H Turkeys: When being a pigeon just isn't enough. 10+ differential required

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Lenders View Post
Arguably? There's nothing bigger than a Grand Slam final.

And the turkeydom is mostly a product of circumstances. Federer would always have a dominant head-to-head as he's a nightmare matchup for JMDP, but 12-2 is greatly exaggerated: it's because they happened to face each other three times when Federer was #1 and Del Potro still a teenager and six times after Del Potro's surgery with him still trying to return to the top of the game.

It's still kind of ironic that Del Potro won the only Slam final between them considering the overall head-to-head, but I'd still argue that the 12-2 H2H is a misleadingly loopsided one. Hopefully JMDP is saving the third victory for when he faces Federer in a Slam final again
...And they say Nadal fans make the most excuses
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Old 06-16-2012, 02:07 AM   #532
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Default Re: H2H Turkeys: When being a pigeon just isn't enough. 10+ differential required

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...And they say Nadal fans make the most excuses
hmm what? care to explain what are the excuses in that post?
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Old 06-16-2012, 02:09 AM   #533
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Default Re: H2H Turkeys: When being a pigeon just isn't enough. 10+ differential required

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Originally Posted by abraxas21 View Post
hmm what? care to explain what are the excuses in that post?
I was meant to quote Mark Lenders, fixed the post.
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Old 06-16-2012, 02:11 AM   #534
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Default Re: H2H Turkeys: When being a pigeon just isn't enough. 10+ differential required

Quote:
Originally Posted by abraxas21 View Post
I said "arguably" because I personally consider the RG 2009 SF the most important match between the two. I think even Federer wouldn't trade that SF victory over that US Open final he lost.
You might have a point. That was the semifinal, but it was basically the de facto final. I knew whoever won the match was taking the title and it was for Federer's Career Slam. Still, it's hard to consider it more important than an actual final.


Quote:
h2h is exaggerated, i agree. after all, since that easy victory in the AO 2009, most of their matches have been fairly close with federer prevailing in all the tight ones (except of course that USO final).

i don't think federer is such a bad match up for del potro though. in the last few years federer has shown to be vulnerable to big hitters and big servers. his tight matches in the recent years to the likes of raonic, berdych, isner and del potro seem to be a testament of this.
It's a bit exaggerated. They kept facing in like every tournament during Del Potro's comeback, and also three times during Juan's teenage years.

Federer is a terrible matchup for JMDP though. He's vulnerable to aggressive big hitters. JMDP's high % big hitting (with a lot of margins) doesn't cause him as much trouble. To beat Federer, Del Potro needs to leave his comfort zone and really go for the lines. When he employs his usual big hitting down the middle with big margins strategy, Federer ends up messing up his rhythm with slices, drop shots, spins.... Federer's variety make him a terrible matchup for Del Potro.
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Old 06-16-2012, 02:19 AM   #535
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Default Re: H2H Turkeys: When being a pigeon just isn't enough. 10+ differential required

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Originally Posted by Topspindoctor View Post
...And they say Nadal fans make the most excuses
Excuses for what?

H2H records are pretty useless except to analyse matchup dynamics, future matches, which is why context is important. For instance, Federer has a dominant 3-0 H2H vs Raonic, but if you watched the matches you know that there's much to it than Raonic being Federer's pigeon.

Having a 2-12 H2H or 10-0 vs Federer in itself makes absolutely no difference, the reasons behind said H2H, the context is what matters. There are no trophies for having great head-to-heads against certain players.
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Old 06-16-2012, 02:24 AM   #536
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Default Re: H2H Turkeys: When being a pigeon just isn't enough. 10+ differential required

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Originally Posted by Mark Lenders View Post
Excuses for what?

H2H records are pretty useless except to analyse matchup dynamics, future matches, which is why context is important.

Having a 2-12 H2H or 10-0 vs Federer in itself makes absolutely no difference, the reasons behind said H2H, the context is what matters. There are no trophies for having great head-to-heads against certain players.
H2H matters a lot, just because Del Po has an awful record vs the big 3, doesn't mean it's suddenly it's a useless stat, you are obviously biased - I bet if he was 20-2 against Fedal, you'd sing a different tune and bring it up in your arguments. H2H Between Fed/Nadal in particular has been brought up by multiple sports journalists, pundits, former legends and fans on numerous occasions. Sampras/Agassi H2H always figures in cementing Sampras as GOAT of his era with no major multi slam winning rivals who dominated him. You just can't ignore a player dominating you convincingly, especially in slams if you're making a case for GOAT argument.
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Old 06-16-2012, 02:29 AM   #537
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Default Re: H2H Turkeys: When being a pigeon just isn't enough. 10+ differential required

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Originally Posted by Topspindoctor View Post
H2H matters a lot, just because Del Po has an awful record vs the big 3, doesn't mean it's suddenly it's a useless stat, you are obviously biased - I bet if he was 20-2 against Fedal, you'd sing a different tune and bring it up in your arguments. H2H Between Fed/Nadal in particular has been brought up by multiple sports journalists, pundits, former legends and fans on numerous occasions. Sampras/Agassi H2H always figures in cementing Sampras as GOAT of his era with no major multi slam winning rivals who dominated him. You just can't ignore a player dominating you convincingly, especially in slams if you're making a case for GOAT argument.
And where exactly am I making a case for GOAT argument? It might have some relevance if you're trying to compare two players, but that's not what I am doing; I'm just trying to put the loopsided head-to-head record between Fed and JMDP into context. IMO, Federer would always dominate their H2H but 12-2 is greatly exaggerated and doesn't tell the whole story. Just my opinion.

And if Del Potro had a 20-2 H2H against Fedal, he'd have surely won far more Slams and been #1, so I'd be focusing on that
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Old 06-16-2012, 02:29 AM   #538
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Default Re: H2H Turkeys: When being a pigeon just isn't enough. 10+ differential required

everyone knows who the only real goat is

the man who won 16 slams in 6.5 years - the stat the dwarfs all other achievment in history

end of subject.

he could even hand a few out to those beggars Delpo, Nadal and Safin.
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Old 06-16-2012, 04:38 PM   #539
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Default Re: H2H Turkeys: When being a pigeon just isn't enough. 10+ differential required

Roger Federer vs. Mikhail Youzhny


Code:
2000	Stockholm	32	Hard (I)	Federer	5-7 6-4 6-3
2002	Halle		QF	Grass (O)	Federer	6-3 6-4
2003	Munich		QF	Clay (O)	Federer	6-2 6-3
2003	Halle		SF	Grass (O)	Federer	4-6 7-6(4) 6-2
2004	Halle		16	Grass (O)	Federer	6-2 6-1
2005	Dubai		QF	Hard (O)	Federer	6-3 7-5
2006	Dubai		SF	Hard (O)	Federer	6-2 6-3
2007	Australian Open	32	Hard (O)	Federer	6-3 6-3 7-6(5)
2007	Dubai		FR	Hard (O)	Federer	6-4 6-3
2007	French Open	16	Clay (O)	Federer	7-6(3) 6-4 6-4
2011	Wimbledon	16	Grass (O)	Federer	6-7(5) 6-3 6-3 6-3
2012	Dubai		QF	Hard (O)	Federer 6-3 6-4
2012	Halle		SF	Grass (O)	Federer 6-1 6-4
Federer leads 13-0
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I definitely would have preferred Gaba winning as he needs the points much more, but Jan would have beaten him anyway. I expect Hajek to destroy Machado, like 6-1 6-2.
Machado wins 6-2 6-1
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Old 06-16-2012, 10:33 PM   #540
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Default Re: H2H Turkeys: When being a pigeon just isn't enough. 10+ differential required

Federer with perfectly clean records against Ferrer and Youzhny. Don't think Sampras ever won all 13 meetings against anyone.
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