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Old 04-08-2012, 02:40 AM   #1
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Default The usage of the word ra*e casually.

Now, of course, being a gay man, I hear/see that's so gay and the f-bomb thrown a lot. But the interesting thing is, I see it less now than I see/hear the word r@pe thrown around EXTREMELY casually about everything. Most likely because people know that using homophobic slurs will get them in a heap of trouble and the fact gay visibility has increased so therefore using the word gay for things that have nothing to do with it makes people look stupid. But why isn't this the case with the word r@pe? The word retarded applies too, but even with retarded, there is actually an effort to diminish the usage of this word as a slur. R@pe, no. No real efforts have been made to stop the usage of this word in a slurring manner. It's definitely sexist, without question. It's a word describing an extremely horrifying experience that at least 1/5 individuals experience in their lifetimes. It's not a joke; it shouldn't be taken with as much flippancy as it is.

When you call people out on using the word r@pe this way, and using slurs in general, many call you oversensitive and whiners, as they are socially privileged and have zero understanding of why it's offensive, as they have never had to question anything in their lives, or question their views and their actions towards things like this. But also it's an indication that people consider individuals who do not use the word r@pe or other words in such a manner, weak. First you're seen as weak, then you're mocked because of that implication. Especially if you're a man and you speak out against these slurs and speak out against the word r@pe used in such a way. And it is mostly males using these slurs and using the word r@pe so casually. All of this is related to sexism because weakness is incorrectly attributed to femininity. And femininity isn't respected in our world overall, especially not in America. People don't even seem to realize at least 1/6 boys/men (the real number is actually more likely 1/4-4.5) are r@ped in their lifetimes. Personally, it just highlights the obvious reality this is a patriarchal society and world filled with ignorance, but also a world that increasingly lacks empathy.

What do you all think?
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Old 04-08-2012, 02:46 AM   #2
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Default Re: The usage of the word ra*e casually.

This forum doesn't allow you to use the word which is a good thing. The word is blanked out. Why don't other forums do this? Free speech, yeah yeah, but some speech doesn't bring anything positive to our society. Some speech should be checked for the betterment of our world. And by that, I don't mean these people shouldn't allow to say the stupid shit they're saying. But they should be condemned and ostracized accordingly. It's time to stop bullshitting and start calling a spade a spade. And that means not simply "letting" people say and do offensive things without having to take responsibility for their actions.
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Old 04-08-2012, 02:59 AM   #3
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Default Re: The usage of the word ra*e casually.

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Old 04-08-2012, 04:43 AM   #4
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Default Re: The usage of the word ra*e casually.

I've used 'that's gay' loads of times but I'm not thinking of a gay person when I use it. It's just... lingo.
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Old 04-08-2012, 05:07 AM   #5
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Default Re: The usage of the word ra*e casually.

It is thrown around too casually. I see many many facebook statuses that mentioned getting ***** by a test or ****** a test or some activity.

People also throw out the word kill and murder casually. But that is way too de-sensitized.
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Old 04-08-2012, 05:21 AM   #6
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Default Re: The usage of the word ra*e casually.

Like the other bad words, give it time.
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Old 04-08-2012, 09:40 AM   #7
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Default Re: The usage of the word ra*e casually.

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I've used 'that's gay' loads of times but I'm not thinking of a gay person when I use it. It's just... lingo.
You not thinking about a gay person is the problem. Not thinking before you speak is the issue. Using gay as an insult is insulting to gay people. It's not just lingo. It's taking how a person identifies and making it a pejorative. Which inherently makes the statement that it's wrong. Whether or not you're thinking it or it's instinctive, using the word gay in such a way is saying gay=bad. That's the issue.

A lot of people, with the that's so gay shit and r@pe shit want to talk about intent. Intent is irrelevant. Actions are what is being judged.
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Old 04-08-2012, 09:56 AM   #8
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Default Re: The usage of the word ra*e casually.

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It is thrown around too casually. I see many many facebook statuses that mentioned getting ***** by a test or ****** a test or some activity.

People also throw out the word kill and murder casually. But that is way too de-sensitized.
I agree about kill and especially murder. Personally, saying something like "dude, you totally killed that _____ today" for example offends me less than other things, maybe because the word is like, obviously, completely separated from actual killing. Usually when someone makes that statement they mean you did something exemplary, you did something awesome. It's not used in a negative, violent fashion in that sense.

However, what's beyond obvious is that people are desensitized to violence and murder. These slurs do not need to be used to realize that's the case, tragically.

With r@pe, it's always connected with aggression and violence and the thing that is being r@ped is always being described in a negative fashion. That's the big difference to me when it comes to slurs, are they used/seen in a favorable light or not. The n-word is being slung around a ton now by suburban white kids, which I don't like, but at the same time, they generally are not using the n-word negatively. It's ignorant, but even being mixed, it doesn't offend me quite as much.

R@pe, gay, these words are used negatively 95% of the time. And that's because these words, the meaning behind them, and who/what they are directed towards, are all seen in a unfavorable light. That would be women and gay men in this case. Women and gay men, in particular, are not respected in our society and world.
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Old 04-08-2012, 12:47 PM   #9
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Default Re: The usage of the word ra*e casually.

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This forum doesn't allow you to use the word which is a good thing.
Is it really? Doesn't it look rather stupid to have to type r@pe even when you are trying to have a serious discussion about a tragic reality? Should women who have been r@ped also blank out the word?

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With r@pe, it's always connected with aggression and violence
Which is as it should be, I'd really be worried if it was used in relation with having fun.

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and the thing that is being r@ped is always being described in a negative fashion.
Would you please explain which part of a sentence like "The r@pe of Africa by slavery" is derogatory of Africans? Doesn't the use of the word actually help to convey the tragedy and appalling injustice of the slave trade? What's disrespectful of women in that sentence?

Maybe you are referring to some other form of usage of the word in US slang, like in "Nole r@ped Nadal" or something like that, which would indeed be a trivialization of r@ape. If that is the case, well, all I can say is that I don't think it is much used in that sense in other languages.

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And that's because these words, the meaning behind them, and who/what they are directed towards, are all seen in a unfavorable light. That would be women and gay men in this case.
Well, homophobia is a very real problem, but in the case of the word 'gay' there may be another explanation. For many people, including me and even most of the homosexuals I know, the words homosexual or lesbian refer to a very serious issue of human freedom and demand great respect, while the word 'gay' (meaning happy, merry, joyful, wild) unavoidably is often perceived in a much lighter tone. I mean, defenders of women's rights would surely have shot themselves in the foot if they had chosen to call themselves 'bimbos' or 'fannies' instead of feminists. As a Spaniard, I have been very much supportive of the legalization of homosexual marriage in my country, which includes the right to pater(mater)nity. However, at the same time, the word gay for me mostly brings up images of drag queens in a parade (charade) and of seedy bars. Maybe you should consider changing your name. No sense protesting that others don't take you seriously if you don't respect yourselves.
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Old 04-08-2012, 01:25 PM   #10
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Default Re: The usage of the word ra*e casually.

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Is it really? Doesn't it look rather stupid to have to type r@pe even when you are trying to have a serious discussion about a tragic reality? Should women who have been r@ped also blank out the word?
Your point is valid, but again, the main way individuals use the word r@pe is not meant in the specific sense. It's trivialized and used as a pejorative. Which is why it has been blanked out, since the word wasn't originally blanked out. It became blanked out after I and many other complained.

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Which is as it should be, I'd really be worried if it was used in relation with having fun.
True, but again, it's about how the word is used, the manner in which it's used. It demonizes r@pe. And by extension, demonizes r@pe victims. That is the problem. R@pe and r@pe victims-----are taken negatively. Instead of being taken as a severe trauma in an individuals' life. The word isn't taken seriously enough.

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Would you please explain which part of a sentence like "The r@pe of Africa by slavery" is derogatory of Africans? Doesn't the use of the word actually help to convey the tragedy and appalling injustice of the slave trade? What's disrespectful of women in that sentence?

Maybe you are referring to some other form of usage of the word in US slang, like in "Nole r@ped Nadal" or something like that, which would indeed be a trivialization of r@ape. If that is the case, well, all I can say is that I don't think it is much used in that sense in other languages.
I said the use of the word r@pe CASUALLY. Obviously, there is a difference between using the word casually, and using the word when it would naturally apply. As for the word not being used in other languages, I know that is false, since on a different forum it was a French woman who started a thread describing this. And how she always heard it (real life) and saw it (virtual world). The word is not taken seriously, that's just what the deal is, tragically.

Trivializing r@pe is also disrespectful to men, since there are billions of men who are r@ped. Again, sexism comes in where r@pe is 100% attributed to femininity and therefore, denigrated.

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Well, homophobia is a very real problem, but in the case of the word 'gay' there may be another explanation. For many people, including me and even most of the homosexuals I know, the words homosexual or lesbian refer to a very serious issue of human freedom and demand great respect, while the word 'gay' (meaning happy, merry, joyful, wild) unavoidably is often perceived in a much lighter tone.
Maybe in Spain, that's how it is, but that's not how it is in America. American gays and straight supporters do not use terms like homosexual. Homosexual and lesbian, um, first of all, LESBIANS ARE HOMOSEXUALS. That's the entire stupidity about it. Homosexual=sex with the same sex. We're more than sexual beings. Homosexual is a clinical term and dehumanizing.

Now, as for gay being perceived in a much lighter tone, I'm not exactly sure that's the case, again at least in America. No, in America, a lot of people think gay just isn't a "homosexual" word. They think it's just a word. And a word that has evolved into an all encompassing slang term. The problem is that the word has become an insult and a negative when there is ZERO history behind such a definition of the word gay. Gay either means carefree and light, or it means homosexual male. So for the word to have transformed into a negative is for ONE reason only-----because of the connection to homosexuality. Let's get real about that.

It's beginning to change, mostly because people are being checked when they do this. Because kids/teens aren't just being allowed to use gay as a pejorative. Because the connection with homophobia has gotten more ingrained in the psyches of people as there has been more visibility brought onto these concerns. But it's still a problem and it's not acceptable.

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I mean, defenders of women's rights would surely have shot themselves in the foot if they had chosen to call themselves 'bimbos' or 'fannies' instead of feminists.
If you're saying gay people stole the term gay, that is false. Straight people called gay people gay, due to gay stereotypes. Gay men being feminine, flamboyant queens, you know We TOOK the word for ourselves. We took control of the word from bigots who threw it onto us. Now, we have others acting as if they can take it back? No. It has too much history with our community. It's our word now. It can't be stolen from us. And it will not be used as a pejorative because gay is not an insult.

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As a Spaniard, I have been very much supportive of the legalization of homosexual marriage in my country, which includes the right to pater(mater)nity.
Accepting gay rights and accepting the gay community aren't the same thing.

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However, at the same time, the word gay for me mostly brings up images of drag queens in a parade (charade) and of seedy bars. Maybe you should consider changing your name. No sense protesting that others don't take you seriously if you don't respect yourselves.


If you don't respect yourselves? You really just threw that one out there? Let me tell you something, fucker. What a way to paint a wide brush over an entire group based on the actions of a few (which, BTW, first of all, most drag queens identify as STRAIGHT. Secondly, STRAIGHT people make up at least 50% of gay pride parades in general. Thirdly, there are STRAIGHT bars that are extremely seedy. NOTHING you have said cannot be unconnected to straight people, either, but I KNOW BETTER than to judge an entire community on the actions of a few) Maybe you should consider changing your mentality. It's not I who needs the changing. It's not my community with the problem. It's you.

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Old 04-08-2012, 01:29 PM   #11
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Default Re: The usage of the word ra*e casually.

That whole bullshit "gay people engage in risky sex and go to seedy bars and act like flamboyant queens" shit is SO over. I can't even believe someone would go there, especially with me. Because you know I'll fuck you up on that shit. It's so ignorant and a BLATANT sign of hypocrisy, because the people who say these things judge gay people on a different level than straight people. (ie. Mardi Gras, Spring Break, Cinco de Mayo, 65% of straight bars) Stop acting as if we're living in two different fucking worlds; we're not aliens and to BIGOTED STRAIGHT HOMOPHOBIC SHITS, you are not above anyone because you're straight. Stop telling me and my community how to live and what to do to gain your tolerance as if we are going to grovel for you pieces of shit, get off the privileged act, you're not special.

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Old 04-08-2012, 01:36 PM   #12
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Default Re: The usage of the word ra*e casually.

Now, side stepping the homophobic POS who responded to me, let's get back to topic.
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Old 04-08-2012, 01:41 PM   #13
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Default Re: The usage of the word ra*e casually.

As a straight male, I find any slur to be in bad taste. Whether insulting a group of people due to their race, religion, sex orientation, I have no tolerance for intolerance. We are all humans on a planet the size of a hair speck on the asshole of the universe. And we have the guts to hate each other?

I do believe that we as a society have been desensitized to murder, and ****, guns, violence, etc. etc. due to Hollywood movies and TV shows, and daily news shows. This has trickled down into everyday life when people think it is ok to use such words with no regard to the feelings of other people.

Me, I never use gay in a derogatory term, not since I was like 14 years old or so. I like the message of the following commercial.



Too bad the youtube commenting morons don't agree

I also don't use the word retarded at all in a derogatory sense, and **** and murder to describe tennis results or how I did on a test is just in bad taste.

Instead of saying: "That movie was gay", say instead "That movie was shit!"

Instead of: "Djokovic ***** Nadal in that last match", say instead "Rafa got whooped by Nole"

Instead of: "I murdered that test", say instead "I kicked that test's ass".

There are easier and better ways to say things without offending anybody.
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Old 04-08-2012, 02:35 PM   #14
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Default Re: The usage of the word ra*e casually.

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Maybe in Spain, that's how it is, but that's not how it is in America.
Oh, to be sure most homosexuals in Spain also use the term gay quite freely.

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American gays and straight supporters do not use terms like homosexual. Homosexual and lesbian, um, first of all, LESBIANS ARE HOMOSEXUALS. That's the entire stupidity about it. Homosexual=sex with the same sex. We're more than sexual beings. Homosexual is a clinical term and dehumanizing.
Of course lesbians are homosexual. Female homosexuality historically has adquired a descriptive word for itself that is not necceseraly derogatory (I mean, the word by itself, not how some homophobiacs may use it), while male homosexuality lacks sucha a term (at least, I can't recall it, all the options are very insulting). For myself, I see nothing dehumanizing about the term homosexual. Maybe that's a cultural difference, I'd much rather describe myself as heterosexual(*) than as straight, but maybe in the USA you have a knack for preferring more informal words.

(*I would only describe myself as heterosexual in the sense that my preferences fall clearly more towards the hetero end of the continuous spectrum of human sexuality, the dualistic idea that one is either one thing or the other, like if hetero and homo belonged in totally different categories, is reactionary and fuels discrimination).

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Now, as for gay being perceived in a much lighter tone, I'm not exactly sure that's the case, again at least in America. No, in America, a lot of people think gay just isn't a "homosexual" word. They think it's just a word. And a word that has evolved into an all encompassing slang term. The problem is that the word has become an insult and a negative when there is ZERO history behind such a definition of the word gay. Gay either means carefree and light, or it means homosexual male. So for the word to have transformed into a negative is for ONE reason only-----because of the connection to homosexuality. Let's get real about that.
The problem is that the word gay already has a rather festive meaning. You simply cannot change that, unless you demand that people stop using it in its original sense.

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If you're saying gay people stole the term gay, that is false. Straight people called gay people gay, due to gay stereotypes. Gay men being feminine, flamboyant queens, you know We TOOK the word for ourselves. We took control of the word from bigots who threw it onto us. Now, we have others acting as if they can take it back? No. It has too much history with our community. It's our word now. It can't be stolen from us. And it will not be used as a pejorative because gay is not an insult.
Now that is a very good argument, seriously. I had never thought of it this way. If you mean that you took a derogatory term and incorporated it as a sign of pride, I can really respect that.

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Originally Posted by Filo V. View Post
Accepting gay rights and accepting the gay community aren't the same thing.
Well, the problem here is that accepting 'gay' rights is a must for any one who has any respect for human dignity (if I don't respect you, I'm demeaning not only you, but ultimately myself). While acritically 'accepting' the gay community (except in the basic sense of tolerance, everybody is free to live his/her life as he pleases, of course) is a non-compulsory option. Just what is to be understood by the 'gay community'? If it means the group of people who share a common condition and often a common discrimination, I'm all for it. But if it means a full-blown special way of life, I don't know even if all homosexuals share it. I've spoken about this with some homosexuals, including one deeply involved in your G&L activism. He told me that the ultimate objective is for homosexual relations to be accepted as normal, to be able to live them out within the community, with the same ease that heterosexual relations are. In other words, he wanted sexual orientation to stop being an issue, at all levels. In his opinion (which is what I was referring to), some aspects of what has come to be known as the 'gay community' (gay-only hotels, bars, shops, travel agencies, you name it) are up to some point a side-track. What he was saying was that he wanted more, much more, than simply changing the closet for an accepted ghetto, but that he feared part of your community was heading towards one.

I very much want to stress the 'part of the community' issue. In Madrid we have one of the liveliest gay quarters in Europe (Chueca). Most of it is not at all ghetto-like, but open and inviting for everyone, so it seems that our gay community is growing out of the ghetto phase, which is great news.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Filo V. View Post
If you don't respect yourselves? You really just threw that one out there? Let me tell you something, fucker. What a way to paint a wide brush over an entire group based on the actions of a few (which, BTW, first of all, most drag queens identify as STRAIGHT. Secondly, STRAIGHT people make up at least 50% of gay pride parades in general. Thirdly, there are STRAIGHT bars that are extremely seedy. NOTHING you have said cannot be unconnected to straight people, either, but I KNOW BETTER than to judge an entire community on the actions of a few) Maybe you should consider changing your mentality. It's not I who needs the changing. It's not my community with the problem. It's you.
1) You are seeing insults where none were intended. I have no problem at all begging your pardon if you felt insulted. I am much more friendly towards your cause than most people you'll find out there, however much politically correct they may seem.

2) Well of course 'straight' people include all sorts, this isn't about 'straight' vs 'gay', don't turn it into a competition. And what I am surely not doing is judging a group for some of its members.

3) Your reaction could lead one to suspect you have some unresolved issue. I'm sure that is not really the case. You just bolted the horses because you mistook something for what it wasn't. I'm sure you'll take hold of them and relax a bit.

Last edited by peribsen : 04-08-2012 at 02:47 PM.
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Old 04-08-2012, 02:52 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Filo V. View Post
That whole bullshit "gay people engage in risky sex and go to seedy bars and act like flamboyant queens" shit is SO over. I can't even believe someone would go there, especially with me. Because you know I'll fuck you up on that shit. It's so ignorant and a BLATANT sign of hypocrisy, because the people who say these things judge gay people on a different level than straight people. (ie. Mardi Gras, Spring Break, Cinco de Mayo, 65% of straight bars) Stop acting as if we're living in two different fucking worlds; we're not aliens and to BIGOTED STRAIGHT HOMOPHOBIC SHITS, you are not above anyone because you're straight. Stop telling me and my community how to live and what to do to gain your tolerance as if we are going to grovel for you pieces of shit, get off the privileged act, you're not special.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Filo V. View Post
Now, side stepping the homophobic POS who responded to me, let's get back to topic.
Sometimes, we all get things wrong. But this trumps up anything I had seen lately. Filo, thank you for making my day! I'll show this to a lesbian friend I'm meeting for lunch tomorrow, we'll have a really good laugh!
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