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View Poll Results: If he can only win one of these titles this year, which one would it be?

Wimbledon 20 28.99%
RG 49 71.01%
Voters: 69. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 05-05-2006, 05:18 AM   #61
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Default Re: Would you trade this year's Wimbledon in for a title at RG?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mangoes
CORIA, CORIA, CORIA................. I'm watching bits of the Roma final with Coria and Nadal. Coria's forehand in this match was such a weapon against Nadal. Theoretically, Roger has a better forehand than Coria, yet it doesn't seem to trouble Nadal on a clay court and Roger doesn't use it very much. Is there a difference between Coria and Roger's respective forehands on clay??
That is a conundrum because Fed has the ability to flatten his forehand or put a lot of topspin on it.

Here is my take on it. He does two things wrong that Coria did not do in that final:

a) He respects Nadal's forehand too much in the sense that he tries too hard when he has to play a stroke going towards Nadal's forehand because he thinks that if he doesn't press on that side, Nadal is going to hit a clean winner of the very next shot. This results in those ugly shanks.

b) He tries to protect his backhand too much against Nadal. This results in him being constantly out of position and scrambling too much to get to Nadal's strokes. I don't know why he tried to use so much backhand top spin in the MC final as opposed to his very effective slice. I know Nadal can scoop it up but atleast he cannot immediately turn it into a winner unlike a top spin backhand that is right there in Nadal's strike zone. Plus with the short slice he can draw Nadal into the net on his own terms.
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Old 05-05-2006, 05:55 AM   #62
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Default Re: Would you trade this year's Wimbledon in for a title at RG?

but i really love Wimby
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Old 05-05-2006, 06:03 AM   #63
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Default Re: Would you trade this year's Wimbledon in for a title at RG?

Quote:

I can't help but thinking that Nadal has been a bit 'lucky' in terms of competition and draw. I'm not trying to downgrade his talent or hard work on/off the court at all. But, as PamV said, it is a fact that he hasn't met quality players in form--against whom Roger had played and proved himself time and time again--frequently enough. Let aside Agassi and Henman due to an age factor, somehow Nadal has never met Safin and Nalbandian(how come?).


Isn't it enough that he beats Federer in his prime time?

Well, most of Nadal's points came from clay tournaments last year. Roddick, Hewitt, and probably Nalbandian would have made very little difference there.

The match up with Safin is the most interesting on paper but he (Safin)'s been striking big once per year lately. So ranking wise it's irrelevant if they met or not.

I dislike yapping about Nadal's "luck". It makes Fed's fans look as bitter as Sampras' fans, for example. By saying that Nadal had no competition, you belittle Roger's achievements over that period time as well. They compete in the same era, against the same guys.

Last edited by ExpectedWinner : 05-05-2006 at 06:45 AM.
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Old 05-05-2006, 06:16 AM   #64
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Default Re: Would you trade this year's Wimbledon in for a title at RG?

I really not like watch Nadal's match,(expect play with Roger)
it is very borning~
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Old 05-05-2006, 10:00 AM   #65
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Default Re: Would you trade this year's Wimbledon in for a title at RG?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ExpectedWinner
Isn't it enough that he beats Federer in his prime time?

Well, most of Nadal's points came from clay tournaments last year. Roddick, Hewitt, and probably Nalbandian would have made very little difference there.

The match up with Safin is the most interesting on paper but he (Safin)'s been striking big once per year lately. So ranking wise it's irrelevant if they met or not.

I dislike yapping about Nadal's "luck". It makes Fed's fans look as bitter as Sampras' fans, for example. By saying that Nadal had no competition, you belittle Roger's achievements over that period time as well. They compete in the same era, against the same guys.
You misunderstood my point. You would get to know that I replied to PamV's post and we both mentioned about his competition on hard court, if you should read my post and PamV's more carefully.

Like or not, it is a FACT that Nadal hasn't met quality players in form frequently enough yet while Roger's played against those players on numerous occasions over the same period of time, which should be called 'luck' for Nadal. Therefore, it is not like 'belittling Roger's achievements' and there is no reason to shut ourselves up about a fact. Besides this competition issue comes mainly from the shortage of Nadal's career so that we will see soon how he manages himself when he meet those guys.
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Old 05-05-2006, 12:21 PM   #66
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Default Re: Would you trade this year's Wimbledon in for a title at RG?

Quote:
Originally Posted by soonha
Like or not, it is a FACT that Nadal hasn't met quality players in form frequently enough yet while Roger's played against those players on numerous occasions over the same period of time, which should be called 'luck' for Nadal. Therefore, it is not like 'belittling Roger's achievements' and there is no reason to shut ourselves up about a fact. Besides this competition issue comes mainly from the shortage of Nadal's career so that we will see soon how he manages himself when he meet those guys.
You admit the lack of competition comes from Nadal's short career. This is why there's no reason to call it "luck" yet. If in a couple of years he still hasn't played good hc players on a consistent basis then maybe I will agree with you.
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Old 05-05-2006, 12:35 PM   #67
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Default Re: Would you trade this year's Wimbledon in for a title at RG?

Quote:
Originally Posted by PamV
Yes, and I think Nadal is very afraid of that. Once Roger beats Nadal soundly things will never be the same again in their matches.
Some how I doubt that. When the likes of Hewitt and Nalbandian had winning records over Roger he wasn't the best player in the world. As he got better he was able to turn the h2h around. Right now he's the best player in the world, and still has been beaten by Nadal three times in a row. Nadal's just a bad match up for him. Obviously I think Roger can beat him, but I don't forsee him ever having an easy time against Nadal unless Nadal is having a really bad day (which is doubtful, esp when playing Roger).
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Old 05-05-2006, 01:28 PM   #68
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Wink Re: Would you trade this year's Wimbledon in for a title at RG?

soonha!! I'm very happy to see your post here. How have you been?
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Old 05-05-2006, 01:48 PM   #69
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Default Re: Would you trade this year's Wimbledon in for a title at RG?

Quote:
Originally Posted by PamV
Andre winning RG wasn't a complete fluke, but he was rather lucky that he was facing Medvedev instead of a greater player.
He did beat defending champ Moya en route, didn't he?
Quote:
Originally Posted by PamV
Would you say Andre's winning Wimby in '92 was a fluke? I think he was lucky to be facing Ivanesivic who was a choker. Sampras hadn't hit his prime yet at that time.
Rubbish (and I'm not even an Agassi fan).
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Old 05-05-2006, 04:19 PM   #70
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Default Re: Would you trade this year's Wimbledon in for a title at RG?

Quote:
That is a conundrum because Fed has the ability to flatten his forehand or put a lot of topspin on it.

Here is my take on it. He does two things wrong that Coria did not do in that final:

a) He respects Nadal's forehand too much in the sense that he tries too hard when he has to play a stroke going towards Nadal's forehand because he thinks that if he doesn't press on that side, Nadal is going to hit a clean winner of the very next shot. This results in those ugly shanks.

b) He tries to protect his backhand too much against Nadal. This results in him being constantly out of position and scrambling too much to get to Nadal's strokes. I don't know why he tried to use so much backhand top spin in the MC final as opposed to his very effective slice. I know Nadal can scoop it up but atleast he cannot immediately turn it into a winner unlike a top spin backhand that is right there in Nadal's strike zone. Plus with the short slice he can draw Nadal into the net on his own terms.
Excellent post, especially about the FH. He is chaning this though because he saw Blake beat Nadal up with the FH attacking the FH and then coming to net. He did a LOT more of this in Dubai and was very successful with it.
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Old 05-05-2006, 04:24 PM   #71
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Default Re: Would you trade this year's Wimbledon in for a title at RG?

Quote:
Originally Posted by PamV
Andre winning RG wasn't a complete fluke, but he was rather lucky that he was facing Medvedev instead of a greater player.

He did beat defending champ Moya en route, didn't he?
Quote:
Originally Posted by PamV
Would you say Andre's winning Wimby in '92 was a fluke? I think he was lucky to be facing Ivanesivic who was a choker. Sampras hadn't hit his prime yet at that time.

Rubbish (and I'm not even an Agassi fan).
Yep. Andre did get some breaks along the way to that RG title but who doesn't get breaks on their way to a slam title? The fact is that he beat everyone in front of him and he was also a finalist two other times. A fluke winner does not reach a slam final on 3 diferent occasions.

As for the Wimbledon win, he beat the best grass court player at that time who was Boris Becker. Going into 1992, Becker had had these results since 1985: W, W, 2nd, F, W, F, F. He was 44-3 in 7.5 years heading up to that match with Andre and Andre beat him. It was the first time I ever saw Boris not serve and volley on a few of the 2nd serve points because of Andre's returns. As for Ivanisevic being a choker, that's just plain garbage. He blew Pete off of the court in the SF. Ace after ace after service winner. I believe he had a set where he didn't even lose a point on his 1st serve and only lost a couple of points overall on serve. Ivanisevic deserved to be in that final and Agassi beat him as well. He also beat an aged but wily grasscourter in J. P. McEnroe in the SF's.
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Old 05-05-2006, 04:36 PM   #72
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Default Re: Would you trade this year's Wimbledon in for a title at RG?

Quote:
Originally Posted by soonha
You misunderstood my point. You would get to know that I replied to PamV's post and we both mentioned about his competition on hard court,

Nice try.

PamV says a lot of things. I can tear up into pieces almost every sentence she says, but it'd be a waste of time.

For me her main idea is here:

Quote:
Originally Posted by PamV
What is strange to me is the fact that Roger had a lot more competition coming up through the ranks than what Nadal had to face to climb to #2.
and here:

Quote:
When you ask where are all the clay court specialists .....I say they are out there the problem is they are all either too much smaller, and/or else they are head cases who choke away sets.

These two statements basically dismiss Nadal's current competition. The situation on the tour is so gloomy that I start to fancy my chances. After all I'm 186 sm and I've never had a reputation of a choker while playing backyard tournaments.


Why to worry about the "lack of competition" for Nadal on hc. His results at 4 last non clay Slams: 4rd, 2rd, 3rd, DNP; and DNP for TMC indoors. And he's still No2 with the amount of points that could be enough for the No1 position any other year. It's clear that his ranking was earned mostly on clay.

Last edited by ExpectedWinner : 05-05-2006 at 05:32 PM.
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Old 05-05-2006, 09:02 PM   #73
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Default Re: Would you trade this year's Wimbledon in for a title at RG?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogiman
He did beat defending champ Moya en route, didn't he? Rubbish (and I'm not even an Agassi fan).

Well that's something. I didn't realize he beat Moya that year. Was Moya injured?

How many times did Ivanesevic get to the Wimby final and falter?
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Old 05-05-2006, 09:09 PM   #74
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Default Re: Would you trade this year's Wimbledon in for a title at RG?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nocko
soonha!! I'm very happy to see your post here. How have you been?
Hi, Nocko. I'm back in California now. To be honest, I haven't been doing good as you can expect. My mother passed away last month. Now I'm trying to get back to routine.

Anyway, thank you for asking. How have you been? I hope you've been doing great.
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Old 05-05-2006, 09:11 PM   #75
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Default Re: Would you trade this year's Wimbledon in for a title at RG?

PamV, as it happens, yes, Moya did get injured in 1999, but later in the year. He had a stress fracture in his lower back that kept him out of action fr USO99 R2 until early 2000. I remember when he started to come back to the tour in 2000.
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