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Old 03-04-2006, 03:36 PM   #61
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Default Re: Tennis Tipping Suggestions/Questions Thread

Here are my opinions for what they're worth

1. the lucky losers - I don't think we should lose lucky losers after the first round - i.e only when someone forgets to send in their points in the first round should an alternate take that person place. I just don't like the idea that someone who loses gets a second chance later in the tournament.
However, as most people seem to be in favour of lucky losers, if we decide to incude them I think it should be restricted to the person with the highest losing score - if that's equal then we can use the tie breaker, then ranking. Also, if that person doesn't send in scores and there is a LL spot available and someone with a lower score sends in points just in case that person should NOT be eligible for the LL spot.

2. the order of ways to decide an even tie - I think it should go tiebreaker, countback to previous round. If equal after that, then the tb for the previous round. If still equal then cb for the round before that, then tb for that round and so on. Ranking is then the last option if everything else is equal.

3. ranking system - I vote for the WTA system with no mandatory tournaments so that people aren't penalised for missing certain tournaments - if we have mandatory tournaments we could end up with the situation that certain tournaments are oversubscribed and there's less interest in some of the smaller tournaments. The incenctive is alredy there to play GS and TMS due to the higher number of ranking points available anyway.

Last edited by Taz Warrior : 03-04-2006 at 03:44 PM.
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Old 03-04-2006, 03:43 PM   #62
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Default Re: Tennis Tipping Suggestions/Questions Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gavnich77
Here are my opinions for what they're worth

1. the lucky losers - I don't think we should lose lucky losers after the first round - i.e only when someone forgets to send in their points in the first round should an alternate take that person place. I just don't like the idea that someone who loses gets a second chance later in the tournament.

2. the order of ways to decide an even tie - I think it should go tiebreaker, countback to previous round. If equal after that, then the tb for the previous round. If still equal then cb for the round before that, then tb for that round and so on. Ranking is then the last option if everything else is equal.

3. ranking system - I vote for the WTA system with no mandatory tournaments so that people aren't penalised for missing certain tournaments - if we have mandatory tournaments we could end up with the situation that certain tournaments are oversubscribed and there's less interest in some of the smaller tournaments. The incenctive is alredy there to play GS and TMS due to the higher number of ranking points available anyway.
Top class suggestions by Gavin !!!

I agree with all the 3 points he has suggested up there...
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Old 03-04-2006, 08:59 PM   #63
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Default Re: Tennis Tipping Suggestions/Questions Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gavnich77
Here are my opinions for what they're worth

1. the lucky losers - I don't think we should lose lucky losers after the first round - i.e only when someone forgets to send in their points in the first round should an alternate take that person place. I just don't like the idea that someone who loses gets a second chance later in the tournament.
However, as most people seem to be in favour of lucky losers, if we decide to incude them I think it should be restricted to the person with the highest losing score - if that's equal then we can use the tie breaker, then ranking. Also, if that person doesn't send in scores and there is a LL spot available and someone with a lower score sends in points just in case that person should NOT be eligible for the LL spot.

2. the order of ways to decide an even tie - I think it should go tiebreaker, countback to previous round. If equal after that, then the tb for the previous round. If still equal then cb for the round before that, then tb for that round and so on. Ranking is then the last option if everything else is equal.

3. ranking system - I vote for the WTA system with no mandatory tournaments so that people aren't penalised for missing certain tournaments - if we have mandatory tournaments we could end up with the situation that certain tournaments are oversubscribed and there's less interest in some of the smaller tournaments. The incenctive is alredy there to play GS and TMS due to the higher number of ranking points available anyway.
In regards to the ranking system though, if you miss a GS ot TMS in the ATP system, you replace it with another tournament.

The only way the ATP system does differ is that if you lose first round in these events, you can't exchange them for a sixth tourny on a smaller level.

Gavnich, i think that you think if you miss the mandatory tournament you can't replace it, but the ATP system does allow you to replace it, as long as you don't play the TMS in the first place.

From the ATP website:

Quote:
For every Grand Slam or Tennis Masters Series Tournament for which a player is not in the Main Draw, and was not (and, in the case of a Grand Slam, would not have been, had he and all other players entered) a Main Draw Direct Acceptance on the original Acceptance List, and never became a Main Draw Direct Acceptance, the number of his results from all other eligible Tournaments in the Entry Ranking period, that count for his ranking, is increased by one.
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Old 03-05-2006, 12:30 AM   #64
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Default Re: Tennis Tipping Suggestions/Questions Thread

Here are my opinions on the three isuues.

1. With Lucky losers. I am with Gavnich77 100%. In the ATP lucky losers are only used in the first rround. In Tennis Tipping this would be the second round as we don't have any qualifiers for lucky losers to derive from. It doesn't seem right a player can come into the game at a later stage as to me it belittles the game. Can you imagine a lucky loser coming into the final!

2. The order of ways to decide an even tie. Again I am with Gavnich77 100%. it should be tiebreak, countback then tiebreak from previous round, then further countback and tiebreak, and so on if still even until last option is to go with ranking.

3. Ranking system. With this issue I am with DeccyB123. We should use the ATP system and not follow the WTA system as we are playing ATP and not WTA!! As DeccyB123 states
'In regards to the ranking system though, if you miss a GS ot TMS in the ATP system, you replace it with another tournament. The only way the ATP system does differ is that if you lose first round in these events, you can't exchange them for a sixth tourny on a smaller level.'

An important note to think about. I am sure further down the line we will have more issues coming up that don't come to our minds as yet. The aim of TENNIS TIPPING should be to follow the ATP rules as close as possible as this will help resolve any further issues arising plus it would be a good point of reference for every player for any queries.
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Old 03-05-2006, 08:54 AM   #65
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Default Re: Tennis Tipping Suggestions/Questions Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeccyB123
In regards to the ranking system though, if you miss a GS ot TMS in the ATP system, you replace it with another tournament.

The only way the ATP system does differ is that if you lose first round in these events, you can't exchange them for a sixth tourny on a smaller level.

Gavnich, i think that you think if you miss the mandatory tournament you can't replace it, but the ATP system does allow you to replace it, as long as you don't play the TMS in the first place.

From the ATP website:
Ok, yes I was thinking that you couldn't replace a mandatory tournament score - however I'm still in favour of having no mandatory events.
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Old 03-05-2006, 12:43 PM   #66
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Default Re: Tennis Tipping Suggestions/Questions Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gavnich77
1. the lucky losers - I don't think we should lose lucky losers after the first round - i.e only when someone forgets to send in their points in the first round should an alternate take that person place. I just don't like the idea that someone who loses gets a second chance later in the tournament.
Yes, I see your point. Thiniking better, it's unfair to have a LL winning, as he had already lost. I'm not with LL idea anymore.
Are tournaments having many WOs in later rounds?
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Old 03-05-2006, 05:12 PM   #67
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Default Re: Tennis Tipping Suggestions/Questions Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by keqtqiadv
Yes, I see your point. Thiniking better, it's unfair to have a LL winning, as he had already lost. I'm not with LL idea anymore.
Are tournaments having many WOs in later rounds?
In case of retirement in every tournament after the 1st round there's a W/O.
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Old 03-06-2006, 05:53 PM   #68
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Default Re: Tennis Tipping Suggestions/Questions Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nimrodg
In case of retirement in every tournament after the 1st round there's a W/O.
I was talking about TT.
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Old 03-06-2006, 07:00 PM   #69
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Default Re: Tennis Tipping Suggestions/Questions Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by keqtqiadv
Yes, I see your point. Thiniking better, it's unfair to have a LL winning, as he had already lost. I'm not with LL idea anymore.
Are tournaments having many WOs in later rounds?
I don't think there are that many - it tends to be the first round where people tend not to send in points.
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Old 03-06-2006, 08:31 PM   #70
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Default Re: Tennis Tipping Suggestions/Questions Thread

Yeah, there were a lot of w/o in the early tournaments, so i brought it in, but with people paying more attention these days nearly everyone gets their tips in, so i say get rid of it
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Old 03-08-2006, 03:45 PM   #71
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Default Re: Tennis Tipping Suggestions/Questions Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Labamba
1. the lucky losers - when are they being used? And if they are, so then what's the best way to decide who gets chosen as one?

2. the order of ways to decide an even tie - tiebreak is the #1 decider, but what is the order of other measures? (countbacks, earlier tiebreakers, earlier countbacks, ranking)

3. ranking system - are we going to use the 'ATP System' with mandatory tournaments or the 'WTA System' best 18? tournaments are counted?
it's time to sum things up:

1. People seem to be in favour of using lucky losers (poll: 14 yes/13 no), that means we have to decide who gets chosen as one. Can we find common ground or do we need another poll (and what would be the best options)?

2. Everybody seem to agree with Gavnich's proposal for the order (tiebreaker, countback, tiebreak #2, countback #2, ..., ranking). If there's no objections, a new rule is made which every manager should use from now on.

3. There's a lot of support for the new compromise suggestion in this question, which the current poll doesn't have (Grand Slams would be mandatory, but not the Masters Series tournaments). Do we need a new poll for this or what?
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Old 03-08-2006, 09:11 PM   #72
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Default Re: Tennis Tipping Suggestions/Questions Thread

For the countback, then tie-break, then countback #2, then tie-breaker #2, I disagree.

I reckon stick with the current method. Let's say it's the final, but the countback goes all the way back to the first round. You'll have to go back through all the players PM's to find their tie-breakers for each round, and sending them to silverwhite will make it tough on him going back and re-checking first round results.
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Old 03-08-2006, 09:59 PM   #73
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Default Re: Tennis Tipping Suggestions/Questions Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeccyB123
For the countback, then tie-break, then countback #2, then tie-breaker #2, I disagree.

I reckon stick with the current method. Let's say it's the final, but the countback goes all the way back to the first round. You'll have to go back through all the players PM's to find their tie-breakers for each round, and sending them to silverwhite will make it tough on him going back and re-checking first round results.


We don't seem to be able to agree on anything in here and the polls are so even that it's really difficult to make decisions based on them. Either we need to have a strong leader who can make these hard decisions or then we need to put together somekind of board of managers who will make the decisions...
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Old 03-09-2006, 12:52 AM   #74
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Default Re: Tennis Tipping Suggestions/Questions Thread

Or maybe we can set up a panel comprises of 5 delegates to vote within themselves to decide on any matters regarding the TT...
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Old 03-09-2006, 01:03 AM   #75
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Default Re: Tennis Tipping Suggestions/Questions Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Labamba


We don't seem to be able to agree on anything in here and the polls are so even that it's really difficult to make decisions based on them. Either we need to have a strong leader who can make these hard decisions or then we need to put together somekind of board of managers who will make the decisions...
I am in agreement with Labamba. Certain decisions need to be made without them lingering on.

Maybe having a single leader is not the way to go. I know I for one would not want to make some tough decisions on my own. We always need other peoples points of views for consideration.

I second Labamba's motion of having an odd number of board of managers for running TT. This way all decisions which need to be made, can be made quickly.

We should also use polls only as an indication as the majority of players do not vote.
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