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Old 02-14-2006, 09:45 AM   #61
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Default Re: The Hypocrisy of the Cartoon Controversy

Quote:
Originally Posted by TennisGrandSlam
How about if somebody non-Westerners says:

No Nazi Massacre against Jew?

Certain European Queen was a prostitute in her young time!

Westerners always think that they must be right, but they are usually lack of self-criticism.
Well, you seem to be non-Western and you said it. Pretty boring actually, I don't foresee any Brits storming the Chinese Embassy over your use of free speech. And as for the holocaust, that is well documented so we know that anyone who says what you said is either lying or an idiot.
And as for ''self-criticism'', I thought that particular practice of Communist humiliation was outdated now. Or do you still practice self-criticism?
But how free are you really? Could you come back on and discuss how many Chinese died at the hands of the Communist Red Guards during the Great Leap Forward? Was it 60 million?
PS You don't have to say ''certain European Queen'', you can name names. But no pictures please, that would be deeply insulting.
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Old 02-14-2006, 10:36 AM   #62
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Default Re: The Hypocrisy of the Cartoon Controversy

On Flemish tv this weekend, there was a debate about the whole thing.

An Imam said:
We're not against Free Speech. That's a misconception. All we want is respect for three things:
1. Allah
2. the Koran
3. the Prophet Mohammed.
That's it. All we ask is that nothing insulting about those three is said or written.

The tv presenter and moderator of the program answered:
Well, then you have a problem. You see, things like that are allowed in Europe. More than 100 years ago, Nietzsche already wrote "God is dead". You can say things like that here.

No religious person likes it that their Prophet and/or God is insulted. I agree. But that is still not a reason for me to put boundaries on the freedom of speech. The minute you set limitations to that is the moment it ceases to be freedom of speech.
Suppose we all make up a list of all the things that are sensitive to us and we don't like to see it insulted. What's left? Talking about the weather perhaps?

I really think that by saying that you agree with freedom of speech but only under certain conditions (=as long as you don't say such and such); you are contradicting yourself and you don't understand the basic concept of freedom of speech (but this is just my opinion).

Like I said before, I even think that questioning the holocaust (even if I find that very hurtful) should be included (it's forbidden in certain countries to do so). As long as you can protest against it in a peaceful way and reply to that, it should be allowed according to me.

The catholic church and its leaders have been the object of many jokes, cartoons,...
If catholics had to set fire to an official building each time something insulting is published, than there wouldn't be an official building standing anymore.
Making jokes about Jesus is perhaps not in very good taste but it's allowed to do so.

Last edited by Castafiore : 02-14-2006 at 11:23 AM.
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Old 02-14-2006, 01:29 PM   #63
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Default Re: The Hypocrisy of the Cartoon Controversy

Quote:
Originally Posted by Castafiore
On Flemish tv this weekend, there was a debate about the whole thing.

An Imam said:
We're not against Free Speech. That's a misconception. All we want is respect for three things:
1. Allah
2. the Koran
3. the Prophet Mohammed.
That's it. All we ask is that nothing insulting about those three is said or written.
And if I want respect for, let's say,

1) Lleyton Hewitt
2) Tennis Magazine
3) Mary Carillo

I guess people should be obligated to respect my wishes too?

Sorry but who those people think they are?
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Old 02-14-2006, 03:53 PM   #64
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Default Re: The Hypocrisy of the Cartoon Controversy

Quote:
Originally Posted by buddyholly
And as for the holocaust, that is well documented so we know that anyone who says what you said is either lying or an idiot.
Exactly- furthermore those who deny the Holocaust are basically turning their backs on perhaps the most bitter lesson humanity has ever learned. And people who refuse to learn from their mistakes are destined to repeat it which is why denying the Holocaust is not only a slap in the face to Jews, Gypsies, Homosexuals, Handicapped and the millions who died during that time it is also dangerous on the long term to the rest of humanity. People should look to these attrocities as a constant reminder of what can happen when hate is allowed to rampage societies and it is no coincidence that many of those deniers are themselves hate-mongers such as the Iranian regime for example.

And on the double-standard issue: isn't it strange how after Ahmedinajad announced a cartoon contest depicting Holocaust denial not one Iranian embassy anywhere in the world was broken into or set aflame?
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Old 02-14-2006, 04:13 PM   #65
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Default Re: The Hypocrisy of the Cartoon Controversy

Quote:
Originally Posted by RonE
Exactly- furthermore those who deny the Holocaust are basically turning their backs on perhaps the most bitter lesson humanity has ever learned. And people who refuse to learn from their mistakes are destined to repeat it which is why denying the Holocaust is not only a slap in the face to Jews, Gypsies, Homosexuals, Handicapped and the millions who died during that time it is also dangerous on the long term to the rest of humanity. People should look to these attrocities as a constant reminder of what can happen when hate is allowed to rampage societies and it is no coincidence that many of those deniers are themselves hate-mongers such as the Iranian regime for example.

And on the double-standard issue: isn't it strange how after Ahmedinajad announced a cartoon contest depicting Holocaust denial not one Iranian embassy anywhere in the world was broken into or set aflame?
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Old 02-14-2006, 10:45 PM   #66
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Default Re: The Hypocrisy of the Cartoon Controversy

Quote:
Originally Posted by kapranos
And if I want respect for, let's say,

1) Lleyton Hewitt
2) Tennis Magazine
3) Mary Carillo

I guess people should be obligated to respect my wishes too?

Sorry but who those people think they are?
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Old 02-15-2006, 10:02 AM   #67
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Default Re: The Hypocrisy of the Cartoon Controversy

Quote:
Originally Posted by cobalt60
mandoura will get you for that
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Old 02-15-2006, 10:03 AM   #68
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Default Re: The Hypocrisy of the Cartoon Controversy

Quote:
Originally Posted by kapranos
And if I want respect for, let's say,

1) Lleyton Hewitt
2) Tennis Magazine
3) Mary Carillo

I guess people should be obligated to respect my wishes too?

Sorry but who those people think they are?
Lay off Mary! She may be no virgin, but I insist you respect her.
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Old 02-15-2006, 04:12 PM   #69
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Default Re: The Hypocrisy of the Cartoon Controversy

On the subject of double standards in the Arab world, go here:

http://www.pmw.org.il/Latest%20bulle...ew.htm#b140206

Credit to littlegreenfootballs.com for the link.
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Old 02-15-2006, 04:16 PM   #70
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Default Re: The Hypocrisy of the Cartoon Controversy

Quote:
Originally Posted by buddyholly
mandoura will get you for that
Buddy back
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Old 02-15-2006, 06:22 PM   #71
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Default Re: The Hypocrisy of the Cartoon Controversy

The Danish paper published the cartoons because they believed that Muslims would overreact to the cartoon. They were more than right. The Danish extreme party has gained in the polls. It is funny a Muslim radical was asked what she hated the most in Switzerland where she lives. She answered UDP which is the nationalist right wing Swiss Party. But here beliefs are no better if not worse. She wants to see seperate pools for muslim men and women. Pffff.
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Old 02-16-2006, 07:08 PM   #72
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Default Re: The Hypocrisy of the Cartoon Controversy

By Ann Coulter
Wed Feb 8, 8:16 PM ET

As my regular readers know, I've long been skeptical of the "Religion of Peace" moniker for Muslims -- for at least 3,000 reasons right off the top of my head. I think the evidence is going my way this week.

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The culture editor of a newspaper in Denmark suspected writers and cartoonists were engaging in self-censorship when it came to the Religion of Peace. It was subtle things, like a Danish comedian's statement, paraphrased by The New York Times, "that he had no problem urinating on the Bible but that he would not dare do the same to the Quran."

So, after verifying that his life insurance premiums were paid up, the editor expressly requested cartoons of Muhammad from every cartoonist with a Danish cartoon syndicate. Out of 40 cartoonists, only 10 accepted the invitation, most of them submitting utterly neutral drawings with no political content whatsoever.

But three cartoons made political points.

One showed Muhammad turning away suicide bombers from the gates of heaven, saying "Stop, stop -- we ran out of virgins!" -- which I believe was a commentary on Muslims' predilection for violence. Another was a cartoon of Muhammad with horns, which I believe was a commentary on Muslims' predilection for violence. The third showed Muhammad with a turban in the shape of a bomb, which I believe was an expression of post-industrial ennui in a secular -- oops, no, wait: It was more of a commentary on Muslims' predilection for violence.

In order to express their displeasure with the idea that Muslims are violent, thousands of Muslims around the world engaged in rioting, arson, mob savagery, flag-burning, murder and mayhem, among other peaceful acts of nonviolence.

Muslims are the only people who make feminists seem laid-back.

The little darlings brandish placards with typical Religion of Peace slogans, such as: "Behead Those Who Insult Islam," "Europe, you will pay, extermination is on the way" and "Butcher those who mock Islam." They warn Europe of their own impending 9/11 with signs that say: "Europe: Your 9/11 will come" -- which is ironic, because they almost had me convinced the Jews were behind the 9/11 attack.

The rioting Muslims claim they are upset because Islam prohibits any depictions of Muhammad -- though the text is ambiguous on beheadings, suicide bombings and flying planes into skyscrapers.

The belief that Islam forbids portrayals of Muhammad is recently acquired. Back when Muslims created things, rather than blowing them up, they made paintings, frescoes, miniatures and prints of Muhammad.

But apparently the Quran is like the Constitution: It's a "living document," capable of sprouting all-new provisions at will. Muslims ought to start claiming the Quran also prohibits indoor plumbing, to explain their lack of it.

Other interpretations of the Quran forbid images of humans or animals, which makes even a child's coloring book blasphemous. That's why the Taliban blew up those priceless Buddhist statues, bless their innocent, peace-loving little hearts.

Largely unnoticed in this spectacle is the blinding fact that one nation is missing from the long list of Muslim countries (by which I mean France and England) with hundreds of crazy Muslims experiencing bipolar rage over some cartoons: Iraq. Hey -- maybe this democracy thing does work! The barbaric behavior of Europe's Muslims suggests that the European welfare state may not be attracting your top-notch Muslims.

Making the rash assumption for purposes of discussion that Islam is a religion and not a car-burning cult, even a real religion can't go bossing around other people like this.

Catholics aren't short on rules, but they couldn't care less if non-Catholics use birth control. Conservative Jews have no interest in forbidding other people from mixing meat and dairy. Protestants don't make a peep about other people eating food off one another's plates. (Just stay away from our plates -- that's disgusting.)

But Muslims think they can issue decrees about what images can appear in newspaper cartoons. Who do they think they are, liberals?
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Old 02-16-2006, 08:33 PM   #73
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Default Re: The Hypocrisy of the Cartoon Controversy

Quote:
In order to express their displeasure with the idea that Muslims are violent, thousands of Muslims around the world engaged in rioting, arson, mob savagery, flag-burning, murder and mayhem, among other peaceful acts of nonviolence.
Coulter is more of an entertainer than a serious political commentator, but she hit the nail on the head with this commment.
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Old 02-16-2006, 09:12 PM   #74
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Default Re: The Hypocrisy of the Cartoon Controversy

Are these nutjobs still at their protests? More stupidity from the religious fanatical fringe groups:

Iran Renames Danish Pastries

By ALI AKBAR DAREINI, Associated Press Writer

TEHRAN, Iran - Iranians love Danish pastries, but when they look for the flaky dessert at the bakery they now have to ask for "Roses of the Prophet Muhammad."

Bakeries across the capital were covering up their ads for Danish pastries Thursday after the confectioners' union ordered the name change in retaliation for caricatures of the Muslim prophet published in a Danish newspaper.

"Given the insults by Danish newspapers against the prophet, as of now the name of Danish pastries will give way to 'Rose of Muhammad' pastries," the union said in its order.

"This is a punishment for those who started misusing freedom of expression to insult the sanctities of Islam," said Ahmad Mahmoudi, a cake shop owner in northern Tehran.

One of Tehran's most popular bakeries, "Danish Pastries," covered up the word "Danish" on its sign with a black banner emblazoned "Oh Hussein," a reference to a martyred saint of Shiite Islam. The banner is a traditional sign of mourning.

The shop owner declined to comment Thursday.

In Zartosht Street in central Tehran, cake shop owner Mahdi Pedari didn't cover up the word "Danish pastries" on his menu, but put the new name next to it.

"I did so just to inform my customers that Rose of Muhammad is the new name for Danish pastries," he said.

Some customers took immediately to the new name. But others were less enthusiastic about the protest.

"I just want the sweet pastries. I have nothing to do with the name," homemaker Zohreh Masoumi told the sales clerk taking her order.

The drawings, which have offended many Muslims, were published in a Danish newspaper in September and then reprinted in European and American newspapers. One depicted the prophet with a turban shaped like a bomb with a burning fuse.

Islam widely holds that representations of Muhammad are banned for fear they could lead to idolatry. At least 19 people have been killed in protests over the past several weeks, most of them in Afghanistan and Pakistan.

Consumer boycotts of Danish goods, from Havarti cheese to Lego, are costing Denmark's companies millions in Saudi Arabia, Kuwait and other Muslim countries.

Iranians love sweets, often bringing candies and pastries to parties. So-called "Danish pastries" are extremely popular.

The Danish's distinctive dough was first created in the 17th century by a French apprentice baker who forgot to add butter to the flour and tried to hide his mistake by folding lumps of it into the dough. It became known as "a thousand leaves" in France.

It was copied in Italy — where it is known as "folded pastry" — and Italian bakers took it to Austria. It journeyed from there to Denmark when Danish bakers went on strike and replacements imported from Austria brought along what became known in Denmark as "Viennese Bread."

The pastry became the Danish to the rest of the world, probably, according to the Danish bakers' union, because Danish bakers emigrated to so many countries.

In Iran, the pastries are domestically baked, not imported. Iran has cut all commercial ties with Denmark in retaliation for the prophet cartoons.

Iran's Danish renaming wasn't the first time a food name has become a symbol of protest. A Republican congressman from North Carolina helped lead an effort to make sure Capitol Hill cafeterias changed their menus to advertise "freedom fries" instead of french fries after France opposed the U.S.-led invasion of Iraq.
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Old 02-16-2006, 09:21 PM   #75
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Default Re: The Hypocrisy of the Cartoon Controversy

Quote:
Originally Posted by tangerine_dream
Are these nutjobs still at their protests? More stupidity from the religious fanatical fringe groups:

Iran Renames Danish Pastries

By ALI AKBAR DAREINI, Associated Press Writer

TEHRAN, Iran - Iranians love Danish pastries, but when they look for the flaky dessert at the bakery they now have to ask for "Roses of the Prophet Muhammad."

Reminds me of 'Freedom Fries'
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