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Old 10-28-2005, 05:19 PM   #76
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Default Re: Welcome to Lyon, Famous For Its Olympique Lyonnais, Its Quenelles and...Eléa!

Interesting thoughts Vale and I don't agree with some of them. Actually I don't think anyone has gone overboard here at all. I mean Elea was pissed off that she paid good money to see him and didn't perform at a level he can, there are ways to lose and there ways not to lose.

Gaston knows exactly what the score is and what he needs to do to make the TMC. If he makes it, that's great and if he doesn't, then he wasn't good enough to do so, and then onto to preparation for 2006.

There isn't anyone slamming him and condemning him as the worst person on earth, but if he doesn't play well or doesn't perform to as he can, then he deserves to be criticised, it's the same in our jobs, if we are not up to scratch, then it gets looked at, same here.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Filo V. View Post
I definitely would have preferred Gaba winning as he needs the points much more, but Jan would have beaten him anyway. I expect Hajek to destroy Machado, like 6-1 6-2.
Machado wins 6-2 6-1
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Old 10-28-2005, 06:36 PM   #77
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Default Re: Welcome to Lyon, Famous For Its Olympique Lyonnais, Its Quenelles and...Eléa!

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Originally Posted by GeorgeWHitler
Interesting thoughts Vale and I don't agree with some of them. Actually I don't think anyone has gone overboard here at all. I mean Elea was pissed off that she paid good money to see him and didn't perform at a level he can, there are ways to lose and there ways not to lose.

Gaston knows exactly what the score is and what he needs to do to make the TMC. If he makes it, that's great and if he doesn't, then he wasn't good enough to do so, and then onto to preparation for 2006.

There isn't anyone slamming him and condemning him as the worst person on earth, but if he doesn't play well or doesn't perform to as he can, then he deserves to be criticised, it's the same in our jobs, if we are not up to scratch, then it gets looked at, same here.
I'll try to be clearer. My attitude is that it's always more interesting to understand what makes a person tick than to just focus on the outcome.

Of course there isn't anybody among us condemning him as the worst person on earth! But there seems to be an impression (starting with Monfils) that he couldn't be bothered to play, and THAT is what I'm referring to. The intent is what matters here, and I'm convinced that although Gastón is often betrayed by his own psychological quirks, he always goes on court hoping to play well and to win. So let's criticize how he played but not the person...
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Old 10-28-2005, 09:04 PM   #78
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Default Re: Welcome to Lyon, Famous For Its Olympique Lyonnais, Its Quenelles and...Eléa!

Élea I'm sorry, and hope you're feeling better by now dear.
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Old 10-29-2005, 04:33 AM   #79
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Default Re: Welcome to Lyon, Famous For Its Olympique Lyonnais, Its Quenelles and...Eléa!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eléa
I don't agree with you, i was there and Gaston's behaviour was unacceptable! i don't care what are these personnal problems, his job is to play tennis and i don't know what he did during the match, but it wasn't tennis
I'm very angry against him because i paid 50€ to see 1 hour of a crappy match. It's a lack of respect for his fans... he just didn't play because he didn't care. I'm not sad, i'm angry, he deserved to lose 6/0 6/0.
I have a pic for you, but i only took one because he didn't deserve i waste my time picturing him.

PS: i'm angry against him but i still love him...i need time to forgive him (for personal reasons too)
I'm sorry, Elea.
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Old 10-29-2005, 05:37 AM   #80
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Default Re: Welcome to Lyon, Famous For Its Olympique Lyonnais, Its Quenelles and...Eléa!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vale
I'll try to be clearer. My attitude is that it's always more interesting to understand what makes a person tick than to just focus on the outcome.

Of course there isn't anybody among us condemning him as the worst person on earth! But there seems to be an impression (starting with Monfils) that he couldn't be bothered to play, and THAT is what I'm referring to. The intent is what matters here, and I'm convinced that although Gastón is often betrayed by his own psychological quirks, he always goes on court hoping to play well and to win. So let's criticize how he played but not the person...
I have to point out that even in RG, Gaston said to Franco "I don't want to be here!" while on court, and in another more recent tournament he actually said to the coach of his opponent before the match, "Don't worry, you're winning today"... so I would have to say that there are times when Gaston comes to his matches already resigned... not always going on court to win. I back any player who is struggling, as long as they are trying. I'm genuinely disappointed in Gaston for his play in Lyon against Monfils. His opponent, the fans and spectators who have made the effort and paid their money to be there deserve more. Gaston needs to get his nerves under control and his motivation up to par or decide to hang it up. He is too talented to have this much lack of self-confidence, and he is slipping out of the Top 10 slowly but surely right now... COME ON GAUDIO!! I mean him no disrespect. You have no idea how much I adore Gaston. But this is his job, as George said. He is expected to DO his job. He should expect more from himself and at least TRY.
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Old 10-29-2005, 05:54 AM   #81
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Default Re: Welcome to Lyon, Famous For Its Olympique Lyonnais, Its Quenelles and...Eléa!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vale
I'll try to be clearer. My attitude is that it's always more interesting to understand what makes a person tick than to just focus on the outcome.

Of course there isn't anybody among us condemning him as the worst person on earth! But there seems to be an impression (starting with Monfils) that he couldn't be bothered to play, and THAT is what I'm referring to. The intent is what matters here, and I'm convinced that although Gastón is often betrayed by his own psychological quirks, he always goes on court hoping to play well and to win. So let's criticize how he played but not the person...
I don't always focus solely on outcomes, they are a part of the overall equation, but not only the thing.

Some people can hide their feelings better than others and Monfils had a particular view and he was disappointed that Gaudio according to him, didn't try and he was on court and as a player they do like to look at the other player to gauge a feelings, and that was one he can came with. No, I am not saying it's right, just what some have perceived.

As I said before, the surface can't be blamed for him not winning this match or having poor form, he has to adjust to that, the best way he knows how to.

Who is criticising the person? There are people who weren't happy with his performance on this day, not about him as a person. I personally have been following him for years, if I was going to stop doing so, cause of bad performances, then I would have done that years ago.

We know he suffers from a lack of confidence, but we all have to take responsibility in how to deal with respective situations that are uncomfortable to us.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Filo V. View Post
I definitely would have preferred Gaba winning as he needs the points much more, but Jan would have beaten him anyway. I expect Hajek to destroy Machado, like 6-1 6-2.
Machado wins 6-2 6-1
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Old 10-29-2005, 06:40 AM   #82
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Default Re: Welcome to Lyon, Famous For Its Olympique Lyonnais, Its Quenelles and...Eléa!

Quote:
Originally Posted by diligent
His opponent, the fans and spectators who have made the effort and paid their money to be there deserve more. Gaston needs to get his nerves under control and his motivation up to par or decide to hang it up. He is too talented to have this much lack of self-confidence, and he is slipping out of the Top 10 slowly but surely right now... COME ON GAUDIO!! I mean him no disrespect. You have no idea how much I adore Gaston. But this is his job, as George said. He is expected to DO his job. He should expect more from himself and at least TRY.
Retirement talk is just over the top really. He has had some bad performances this year, but they have been less than previously, so there has been an overall improvement just based on that alone.

Actually we don't care about rankings in this place. Why? It's simple, if he plays well and then his ranking will look after itself, there are tournaments that he needs to peak for, that he has to work out for himself the best way to do it.

Gaston has lost matches before, when the other guy was better, but as I have said before to posters go follow Federer or Nadal if results matter that much. He is what he is and if feels he hasn't done his career justice, then that's disappointing for Gaston only.
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On Nadal bumping him on the changeover, Rosol said: "It's ok, he wanted to take my concentration; I knew he would try something".


Wilander on Dimitrov - "He has mind set on imitating Federer and yes it looks good. But he has no idea what to do on the court".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Filo V. View Post
I definitely would have preferred Gaba winning as he needs the points much more, but Jan would have beaten him anyway. I expect Hajek to destroy Machado, like 6-1 6-2.
Machado wins 6-2 6-1
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Old 10-29-2005, 10:02 PM   #83
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Default Re: Welcome to Lyon, Famous For Its Olympique Lyonnais, Its Quenelles and...Eléa!

Quote:
Originally Posted by diligent
I have to point out that even in RG, Gaston said to Franco "I don't want to be here!" while on court, and in another more recent tournament he actually said to the coach of his opponent before the match, "Don't worry, you're winning today"... so I would have to say that there are times when Gaston comes to his matches already resigned... not always going on court to win. I back any player who is struggling, as long as they are trying. I'm genuinely disappointed in Gaston for his play in Lyon against Monfils. His opponent, the fans and spectators who have made the effort and paid their money to be there deserve more. Gaston needs to get his nerves under control and his motivation up to par or decide to hang it up. He is too talented to have this much lack of self-confidence, and he is slipping out of the Top 10 slowly but surely right now... COME ON GAUDIO!! I mean him no disrespect. You have no idea how much I adore Gaston. But this is his job, as George said. He is expected to DO his job. He should expect more from himself and at least TRY.
Look, from one fan to another, I´d like to disagree with your interpretation of some things Gastón has said and done. Don´t take it badly because we´re both on the same side!

As I´ve done so many translations of Gastón´s interviews and articles, reading over what he said again and again, I feel I´ve got to know him pretty well. To begin with, he has quite the wrong temperament to be a professional sportsman and he only became a pro because his family´s income took a turn for the worse and he had to start to earn money. Otherwise he´d have gone on to university and continued playing as a gifted amateur. Only his talent has taken him to be where he is, in spite of his mercurial, artistic nature.

When he analyses his see-saw performances, he explains that some days he gets up and just can´t play well, he goes on court and just can´t “feel” the ball. (And as tennis is a precision sport which also requires split-second decisions, when he´s on an off-day he can´t just go to work like us ordinary mortals and punch the time-clock. WE can get by with nobody noticing, HE loses badly).

Sometimes he faces one of these hard-hitting players with great serves, on a surface that doesn´t favour his game, and he begins to feel impotent. The next stage is that he gets depressed, and it all spirals until he gives the impression that he couldn´t care less, but he´s just frustrated. He swears that he never goes on court without the intention to try to win, and when you see the important matches in which he´s lost you can´t doubt that he obviously wanted to win.

The two RG matches you mention are emblematic. In the final last year, when he shouted to Davin that he didn´t want to be there, he meant that he was embarrassing himself playing pitifully as he was, and he felt trapped. He thought people would feel sorry for him for making such a pathetic spectacle of himself and it hurt his pride and his self-esteem. He´s terrified of making a fool of himself. And this year at RG, when he was playing against Ferrer, it was terribly important to him to continue in the race, and he found he wasn´t playing as well as he would like to.This in itself was worrying. He was close to winning when Ferrer started making inroads into his advantage and he hadn´t got the arms to combat him. He felt very bitter to see his dream going up in smoke because he wasn´t playing his best tennis, and that´s when he told Ferrer´s coach not to worry, that they´d win. But it was said sardonically, predicting the outcome because he was doing his best and it wasn´t enough.

Having said all that, let´s also recognize all he´s done! He had the humility and courage to fight back when he was down, and made one of sports´ great comebacks. From the great promise he showed in 2002, he´d fallen to being ranked 44, to then work his way up until he won RG! Many people thought he was a nine-days-wonder, but he stayed consistently in the top ten and raised the winner´s trophy five times this year! We all know this, of course, but I like to remind us so we can keep things in perspective. Let us celebrate the guy he is instead of lamenting what he isn´t!
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Old 10-29-2005, 10:09 PM   #84
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Default Re: Welcome to Lyon, Famous For Its Olympique Lyonnais, Its Quenelles and...Eléa!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vale
Having said all that, let´s also recognize all he´s done! He had the humility and courage to fight back when he was down, and made one of sports´ great comebacks. From the great promise he showed in 2002, he´d fallen to being ranked 44, to then work his way up until he won RG! Many people thought he was a nine-days-wonder, but he stayed consistently in the top ten and raised the winner´s trophy five times this year! We all know this, of course, but I like to remind us so we can keep things in perspective. Let us celebrate the guy he is instead of lamenting what he isn´t!
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Old 10-29-2005, 10:12 PM   #85
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Default Re: Welcome to Lyon, Famous For Its Olympique Lyonnais, Its Quenelles and...Eléa!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vale
Having said all that, let´s also recognize all he´s done! He had the humility and courage to fight back when he was down, and made one of sports´ great comebacks. From the great promise he showed in 2002, he´d fallen to being ranked 44, to then work his way up until he won RG! Many people thought he was a nine-days-wonder, but he stayed consistently in the top ten and raised the winner´s trophy five times this year! We all know this, of course, but I like to remind us so we can keep things in perspective. Let us celebrate the guy he is instead of lamenting what he isn´t!
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Old 10-29-2005, 11:55 PM   #86
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Default Re: Welcome to Lyon, Famous For Its Olympique Lyonnais, Its Quenelles and...Eléa!

Been there (last minutes decision), seen Gaston NOT having his day. But at least in this tournament he won a match after so many weeks without any win.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Vale
When he analyses his see-saw performances, he explains that some days he gets up and just can´t play well, he goes on court and just can´t “feel” the ball. (And as tennis is a precision sport which also requires split-second decisions, when he´s on an off-day he can´t just go to work like us ordinary mortals and punch the time-clock. WE can get by with nobody noticing, HE loses badly).
Vale! I have the same sentiments. I could never express it so clearly as you do, though. Especially the very last part.


I am planning to go to Bercy for a few days - maybe more. Hope to see Gaston on the other side of his spectrums this time around.


Eléa, it was really lovely seeing you at last! I will see more of you in the future - in the very near future, too, won't I?
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Old 10-30-2005, 12:24 AM   #87
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Default Re: Welcome to Lyon, Famous For Its Olympique Lyonnais, Its Quenelles and...Eléa!

Quote:
Originally Posted by reiko
Eléa, it was really lovely seeing you at last! I will see more of you in the future - in the very near future, too, won't I?
yes sure, and with a great pleasure
I have a free bed in my hotel room for the night from tuesday to wednesday, if you are interested... [or if someone else is interested of course ]
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Old 10-30-2005, 01:02 AM   #88
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Default Re: Welcome to Lyon, Famous For Its Olympique Lyonnais, Its Quenelles and...Eléa!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vale
Look, from one fan to another, I´d like to disagree with your interpretation of some things Gastón has said and done. Don´t take it badly because we´re both on the same side!

As I´ve done so many translations of Gastón´s interviews and articles, reading over what he said again and again, I feel I´ve got to know him pretty well. To begin with, he has quite the wrong temperament to be a professional sportsman and he only became a pro because his family´s income took a turn for the worse and he had to start to earn money. Otherwise he´d have gone on to university and continued playing as a gifted amateur. Only his talent has taken him to be where he is, in spite of his mercurial, artistic nature.

When he analyses his see-saw performances, he explains that some days he gets up and just can´t play well, he goes on court and just can´t “feel” the ball. (And as tennis is a precision sport which also requires split-second decisions, when he´s on an off-day he can´t just go to work like us ordinary mortals and punch the time-clock. WE can get by with nobody noticing, HE loses badly).

Sometimes he faces one of these hard-hitting players with great serves, on a surface that doesn´t favour his game, and he begins to feel impotent. The next stage is that he gets depressed, and it all spirals until he gives the impression that he couldn´t care less, but he´s just frustrated. He swears that he never goes on court without the intention to try to win, and when you see the important matches in which he´s lost you can´t doubt that he obviously wanted to win.

The two RG matches you mention are emblematic. In the final last year, when he shouted to Davin that he didn´t want to be there, he meant that he was embarrassing himself playing pitifully as he was, and he felt trapped. He thought people would feel sorry for him for making such a pathetic spectacle of himself and it hurt his pride and his self-esteem. He´s terrified of making a fool of himself. And this year at RG, when he was playing against Ferrer, it was terribly important to him to continue in the race, and he found he wasn´t playing as well as he would like to.This in itself was worrying. He was close to winning when Ferrer started making inroads into his advantage and he hadn´t got the arms to combat him. He felt very bitter to see his dream going up in smoke because he wasn´t playing his best tennis, and that´s when he told Ferrer´s coach not to worry, that they´d win. But it was said sardonically, predicting the outcome because he was doing his best and it wasn´t enough.

Having said all that, let´s also recognize all he´s done! He had the humility and courage to fight back when he was down, and made one of sports´ great comebacks. From the great promise he showed in 2002, he´d fallen to being ranked 44, to then work his way up until he won RG! Many people thought he was a nine-days-wonder, but he stayed consistently in the top ten and raised the winner´s trophy five times this year! We all know this, of course, but I like to remind us so we can keep things in perspective. Let us celebrate the guy he is instead of lamenting what he isn´t!
Vale, that is a fantastic analysis of Gaudio. You do seem to know him well. You were able to lay that out very clearly for me. Thank you.

In my frustration with him and for him, I was being over the top about Gaudio's retirement, yes. I've noticed this particular board is very rigid about its postings. You cannot be one bit sarcastic or it gets a scolding. GAUDIO wanted to finish the year in the Top 10 George, that was his goal. This is why I brought this up. I don't care if he's #152 in the rankings. I love how you defend Gaudio and tell people to go root for someone else if they have a problem with ranking . "If you don't agree with us, don't come here" mentality. I'll just continue to come here for match info instead of posting next time.

Vale, I do appreciate your insight on Gaudio. Thanks.
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Old 10-30-2005, 05:41 AM   #89
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Default Re: Welcome to Lyon, Famous For Its Olympique Lyonnais, Its Quenelles and...Eléa!

Quote:
Originally Posted by diligent
In my frustration with him and for him, I was being over the top about Gaudio's retirement, yes. I've noticed this particular board is very rigid about its postings. You cannot be one bit sarcastic or it gets a scolding. GAUDIO wanted to finish the year in the Top 10 George, that was his goal. This is why I brought this up. I don't care if he's #152 in the rankings. I love how you defend Gaudio and tell people to go root for someone else if they have a problem with ranking . "If you don't agree with us, don't come here" mentality. I'll just continue to come here for match info instead of posting next time.
Actually, it's not that rigid, we just don't like people posting about Gaudio's private life.

For someone who is a fan such as yourself, then you would know he seriously contemplated retiring in early 2004 as he was that down on himself and questioning whether he wanted to play tennis or not, but Vale explained the rest of the story very clearly.

I am very aware of what Gaston's objectives were for the year as are the fans who post in here, but really is the ranking that important in the overall scheme of things? If he succeeds that's good, if he doesn't, then bad luck to him.

Btw, yes everyone who had an opinion on this match has agreed in this thread, come on you should be aware of how he is and what he isn't.
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On Nadal bumping him on the changeover, Rosol said: "It's ok, he wanted to take my concentration; I knew he would try something".


Wilander on Dimitrov - "He has mind set on imitating Federer and yes it looks good. But he has no idea what to do on the court".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Filo V. View Post
I definitely would have preferred Gaba winning as he needs the points much more, but Jan would have beaten him anyway. I expect Hajek to destroy Machado, like 6-1 6-2.
Machado wins 6-2 6-1
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Old 10-30-2005, 05:47 PM   #90
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Default Re: Welcome to Lyon, Famous For Its Olympique Lyonnais, Its Quenelles and...Eléa!

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Originally Posted by diligent
I'll just continue to come here for match info instead of posting next time.
Diligent, DO come back frequently and post too! We often disagree here, but it´s not serious, and we´re a pretty nice bunch really!!! The main thing is that you´re a GG fan and this is the spot to be!
So feel welcome!
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