Player/Coach Changes (Murray splits with Lendl) - MensTennisForums.com

MensTennisForums.com

MenstennisForums.com is the premier Men's Tennis forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.Please Register - It's Free!

Reply

Old 10-23-2005, 12:42 PM   #1
country flag cobalt60
Pacific Northwest Home
 
cobalt60's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 31,555
cobalt60 has a reputation beyond reputecobalt60 has a reputation beyond reputecobalt60 has a reputation beyond reputecobalt60 has a reputation beyond reputecobalt60 has a reputation beyond reputecobalt60 has a reputation beyond reputecobalt60 has a reputation beyond reputecobalt60 has a reputation beyond reputecobalt60 has a reputation beyond reputecobalt60 has a reputation beyond reputecobalt60 has a reputation beyond repute
Question Player/Coach Changes (Murray splits with Lendl)

Ok as this is my first thread on GM( and may very well be my last ) so be kind.

I was watching TTC here in the states with the European Madrid feed and the commentators were talking about how and why some South American players continually change coaches. Yes it seems to be a fact for some but not all but then the commentators went on to say that the players seemed to point the blame for their doing poorly squarely on their coaches without taking some of the blame on themselves. I thought this was a bit out of line and obviously an opinion although not stated as such.

Now I know many MTF's have opinions and don't mind commentating a bit themselves. But I also think that there are others here who may actually have information to share in this regard. So comment away please

Last edited by Slasher1985 : 03-19-2014 at 12:35 PM.
cobalt60 is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 

Old 10-23-2005, 01:04 PM   #2
country flag lau
.
 
lau's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 3,921
lau has a reputation beyond reputelau has a reputation beyond reputelau has a reputation beyond reputelau has a reputation beyond reputelau has a reputation beyond reputelau has a reputation beyond reputelau has a reputation beyond reputelau has a reputation beyond reputelau has a reputation beyond reputelau has a reputation beyond reputelau has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: The Changing of the Guard

Marat`s not South American

EDIT: Stupid theory in my opinion. But it`s true some of them change coaches quite often... BTW, usually the same coaches rotate between most of the SA players

Last edited by lau : 10-23-2005 at 01:09 PM.
lau is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2005, 01:34 PM   #3
country flag Saumon
Registered User
 
Saumon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 26,748
Saumon has a reputation beyond reputeSaumon has a reputation beyond reputeSaumon has a reputation beyond reputeSaumon has a reputation beyond reputeSaumon has a reputation beyond reputeSaumon has a reputation beyond reputeSaumon has a reputation beyond reputeSaumon has a reputation beyond reputeSaumon has a reputation beyond reputeSaumon has a reputation beyond reputeSaumon has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: The Changing of the Guard

Quote:
Originally Posted by lau
Marat`s not South American
well he's improving, he's been with the same coach for 18 months
__________________
Saumon is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2005, 01:56 PM   #4
country flag Action Jackson
Forum Umpire:
Gaston Gaudio
 
Action Jackson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 124,480
Action Jackson has a reputation beyond reputeAction Jackson has a reputation beyond reputeAction Jackson has a reputation beyond reputeAction Jackson has a reputation beyond reputeAction Jackson has a reputation beyond reputeAction Jackson has a reputation beyond reputeAction Jackson has a reputation beyond reputeAction Jackson has a reputation beyond reputeAction Jackson has a reputation beyond reputeAction Jackson has a reputation beyond reputeAction Jackson has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: The Changing of the Guard

What the South American coach dance, that is fun and usually Argentines, though Massu has changed a few times, it depends on the player, but at the same time some responsibility has to go on them, it's like it's never the players fault only the racquets when they miss easy passing shots on their break point and go onto lose the match.

Well even the best coaches get fired, sometimes it doesn't work with that particular player and person and other times it does. Since the player is the employer, then they can do what they like with the hired help, if it doesn't work for them, though the commentators make a fair point, each individual has to take some form of responsibility for themselves.
__________________
On Nadal bumping him on the changeover, Rosol said: "It's ok, he wanted to take my concentration; I knew he would try something".


Wilander on Dimitrov - "He has mind set on imitating Federer and yes it looks good. But he has no idea what to do on the court".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Filo V. View Post
I definitely would have preferred Gaba winning as he needs the points much more, but Jan would have beaten him anyway. I expect Hajek to destroy Machado, like 6-1 6-2.
Machado wins 6-2 6-1
Action Jackson is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2005, 02:01 PM   #5
country flag lau
.
 
lau's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 3,921
lau has a reputation beyond reputelau has a reputation beyond reputelau has a reputation beyond reputelau has a reputation beyond reputelau has a reputation beyond reputelau has a reputation beyond reputelau has a reputation beyond reputelau has a reputation beyond reputelau has a reputation beyond reputelau has a reputation beyond reputelau has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: The Changing of the Guard

I agree George, but I don´t think it`s a "south american players" thing or an "argentine players" thing only... That`s why I said that IMO it`s a stupid theory (if it`s only applied to south american and/or argentine players only)

Last edited by lau : 10-23-2005 at 02:03 PM.
lau is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2005, 02:04 PM   #6
country flag cobalt60
Pacific Northwest Home
 
cobalt60's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 31,555
cobalt60 has a reputation beyond reputecobalt60 has a reputation beyond reputecobalt60 has a reputation beyond reputecobalt60 has a reputation beyond reputecobalt60 has a reputation beyond reputecobalt60 has a reputation beyond reputecobalt60 has a reputation beyond reputecobalt60 has a reputation beyond reputecobalt60 has a reputation beyond reputecobalt60 has a reputation beyond reputecobalt60 has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: The Changing of the Guard

Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgeWHitler
What the South American coach dance, that is fun and usually Argentines, though Massu has changed a few times, it depends on the player, but at the same time some responsibility has to go on them, it's like it's never the players fault only the racquets when they miss easy passing shots on their break point and go onto lose the match.

Well even the best coaches get fired, sometimes it doesn't work with that particular player and person and other times it does. Since the player is the employer, then they can do what they like with the hired help, if it doesn't work for them, though the commentators make a fair point, each individual has to take some form of responsibility for themselves.
Thanks GWH I figured you would have some info. And why they choose to single out the SA players is beyond me. But again they stated it as a fact without any backing up info.
cobalt60 is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2005, 02:09 PM   #7
country flag Action Jackson
Forum Umpire:
Gaston Gaudio
 
Action Jackson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 124,480
Action Jackson has a reputation beyond reputeAction Jackson has a reputation beyond reputeAction Jackson has a reputation beyond reputeAction Jackson has a reputation beyond reputeAction Jackson has a reputation beyond reputeAction Jackson has a reputation beyond reputeAction Jackson has a reputation beyond reputeAction Jackson has a reputation beyond reputeAction Jackson has a reputation beyond reputeAction Jackson has a reputation beyond reputeAction Jackson has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: The Changing of the Guard

Quote:
Originally Posted by cobalt60
Thanks GWH I figured you would have some info. And why they choose to single out the SA players is beyond me. But again they stated it as a fact without any backing up info.
They wouldn't make a claim like that without the info, and actually he used plenty of it when he mentioned Calleri had changed coaches a lot, at the same time Malisse and Safin have had a lot of coaches as well, it was relevant to the case.

I mean Coria for memory has had Davin, Mancini, Blengino, Monachesi and now with Perlas.

Gaudio has worked with Peña, de la Peña, Jaite, Infantino and now Davin.

There are other examples like Zab, Chela and that have changed coaches a lot, then again it's like this in football, if the team does well, then the coach gets praise, a few bad results and then they are gone.
__________________
On Nadal bumping him on the changeover, Rosol said: "It's ok, he wanted to take my concentration; I knew he would try something".


Wilander on Dimitrov - "He has mind set on imitating Federer and yes it looks good. But he has no idea what to do on the court".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Filo V. View Post
I definitely would have preferred Gaba winning as he needs the points much more, but Jan would have beaten him anyway. I expect Hajek to destroy Machado, like 6-1 6-2.
Machado wins 6-2 6-1
Action Jackson is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2005, 02:12 PM   #8
country flag cobalt60
Pacific Northwest Home
 
cobalt60's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 31,555
cobalt60 has a reputation beyond reputecobalt60 has a reputation beyond reputecobalt60 has a reputation beyond reputecobalt60 has a reputation beyond reputecobalt60 has a reputation beyond reputecobalt60 has a reputation beyond reputecobalt60 has a reputation beyond reputecobalt60 has a reputation beyond reputecobalt60 has a reputation beyond reputecobalt60 has a reputation beyond reputecobalt60 has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: The Changing of the Guard

Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgeWHitler
They wouldn't make a claim like that without the info, and actually he used plenty of it when he mentioned Calleri had changed coaches a lot, at the same time Malisse and Safin have had a lot of coaches as well, it was relevant to the case.

I mean Coria for memory has had Davin, Mancini, Blengino, Monachesi and now with Perlas.

Gaudio has worked with Peña, de la Peña, Jaite, Infantino and now Davin.

There are other examples like Zab, Chela and that have changed coaches a lot, then again it's like this in football, if the team does well, then the coach gets praise, a few bad results and then they are gone.
Interesting and thanks agains especially for all the coaching information. Wow.
Who then has actually had a long term coach; say over 3+ years. Agassi comes to mind but...others?
cobalt60 is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2005, 02:19 PM   #9
country flag Action Jackson
Forum Umpire:
Gaston Gaudio
 
Action Jackson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 124,480
Action Jackson has a reputation beyond reputeAction Jackson has a reputation beyond reputeAction Jackson has a reputation beyond reputeAction Jackson has a reputation beyond reputeAction Jackson has a reputation beyond reputeAction Jackson has a reputation beyond reputeAction Jackson has a reputation beyond reputeAction Jackson has a reputation beyond reputeAction Jackson has a reputation beyond reputeAction Jackson has a reputation beyond reputeAction Jackson has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: The Changing of the Guard

Quote:
Originally Posted by cobalt60
Interesting and thanks agains especially for all the coaching information. Wow.
Who then has actually had a long term coach; say over 3+ years. Agassi comes to mind but...others?
There was a point to what they were saying, it needed some background info.
Guga and Passos were together for ages.
Schüttler and Hordoff
Ferrero and his coach
Youzhny and Sokhi
Gaudio and Davin have been together for a while now
Corretja and Duarte
__________________
On Nadal bumping him on the changeover, Rosol said: "It's ok, he wanted to take my concentration; I knew he would try something".


Wilander on Dimitrov - "He has mind set on imitating Federer and yes it looks good. But he has no idea what to do on the court".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Filo V. View Post
I definitely would have preferred Gaba winning as he needs the points much more, but Jan would have beaten him anyway. I expect Hajek to destroy Machado, like 6-1 6-2.
Machado wins 6-2 6-1
Action Jackson is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2005, 02:41 PM   #10
country flag basil333
Registered User
 
basil333's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 771
basil333 has a reputation beyond reputebasil333 has a reputation beyond reputebasil333 has a reputation beyond reputebasil333 has a reputation beyond reputebasil333 has a reputation beyond reputebasil333 has a reputation beyond reputebasil333 has a reputation beyond reputebasil333 has a reputation beyond reputebasil333 has a reputation beyond reputebasil333 has a reputation beyond reputebasil333 has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: The Changing of the Guard

Argentine Tennis Players and Certain other SA Players and Coaches act like a team, a big team, and usually there are other reasons for the individual changes, family reasons etc rather than negative reasons - and more often than not you will see them back on court with their former coaches with their latest players laughing and joking and supporting each other. AND its no surprise that they often rehire their coaches again too - and if a player forgets to pack their coach for a tournament, more often than not you will find that player working with Hernan Gumy - who in my humble opinon is the "floater coach"

I think it is really great to see the strong "Team Spirit" the South American Team has. More countries could learn from their example.
__________________
www.sportfiles.com/photogallery
www.sportfiles.com/zabaleta

Optimism is a wonderful thing - 1 part Optimism is worth 100 parts Pessimism

A parachute is like the mind - it only works when OPEN
basil333 is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2005, 02:43 PM   #11
country flag *Ljubica*
Occasional Visitor
 
*Ljubica*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 52,208
*Ljubica* has a reputation beyond repute*Ljubica* has a reputation beyond repute*Ljubica* has a reputation beyond repute*Ljubica* has a reputation beyond repute*Ljubica* has a reputation beyond repute*Ljubica* has a reputation beyond repute*Ljubica* has a reputation beyond repute*Ljubica* has a reputation beyond repute*Ljubica* has a reputation beyond repute*Ljubica* has a reputation beyond repute*Ljubica* has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: The Changing of the Guard

Great thread Sue - of course we'll be kind! Personally - I agree with your commentators - so many players just seem to blame their coaches when things go wrong instead of being mature and adult enough to blame themselves. It's called shifting responsibility instead of facing up to their own shortcomings - and I hate it The South Americans are renowned for it - though as others have said it's true that other players do it to - Marat being the obvious example..

Of course, sometimes personalities just do clash and they're better apart - though certainly in the case of the close-knit Argentine tennis community you would think they would know that before hiring someone and then changing their mind after a few months But - half the time in my opinion it's just because the players aren't grown up enough to see that most of the fault for bad losses is their own - not their coaches! After all-no matter how hard a coach works he can't be out on the court playing a match can he - if a player messes it up, - it is down to him - so why blame someone else!? A lot of fans are bad in that regard too - if their favourite loses it is easy to bame the poor coach and call for his sacking instead of accepting their player is not quite the little they would like him to be!

Btw - GWH - how could you forget the lovely Gaby Markus in your list of Coria's coaches? Mind you - he only lasted a couple of months so maybe it isn't worth remembering
__________________
AJDE SRBIJA


Supporting Djoković, Tipsarević, Soderling, Tursunov, Youzhny, Cilić and quite a few more

Last edited by *Ljubica* : 10-23-2005 at 02:46 PM.
*Ljubica* is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2005, 02:48 PM   #12
country flag PaulieM
Registered User
 
PaulieM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Ithaca, NY
Age: 28
Posts: 10,023
PaulieM has a reputation beyond reputePaulieM has a reputation beyond reputePaulieM has a reputation beyond reputePaulieM has a reputation beyond reputePaulieM has a reputation beyond reputePaulieM has a reputation beyond reputePaulieM has a reputation beyond reputePaulieM has a reputation beyond reputePaulieM has a reputation beyond reputePaulieM has a reputation beyond reputePaulieM has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: The Changing of the Guard

since when are the south american players the only ones that blame their coaches for bad results i'm pretty sure there are quite a few other players that change their coaches like underwear as well. it's much easier to blame someone else than accept some responsibility yourself, it's like that in a lot of areas of life.
__________________
Goran Ivanisevic~ You Never Forget Your First (Tennis) Love!

ROGER FEDERER

GROSJEAN, HENMAN, MOYA, CORIA

ANCIC, BLAKE, LJUBICIC, CLEMENT, SANTORO, BAGHDATIS, MONFILS

F-LO, DENT, PHM, MULLER, STEPANEK, PHILIPPOUSSIS

Co-Founder and Proud Member of M.A.S.H.A


"If you even dream of beating me, you'd better wake up and apologize."-Muhammad Ali

My Blog!
PaulieM is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2005, 02:50 PM   #13
country flag lau
.
 
lau's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 3,921
lau has a reputation beyond reputelau has a reputation beyond reputelau has a reputation beyond reputelau has a reputation beyond reputelau has a reputation beyond reputelau has a reputation beyond reputelau has a reputation beyond reputelau has a reputation beyond reputelau has a reputation beyond reputelau has a reputation beyond reputelau has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: The Changing of the Guard

Quote:
Originally Posted by basil333
Argentine Tennis Players and Certain other SA Players and Coaches act like a team, a big team, and usually there are other reasons for the individual changes, family reasons etc rather than negative reasons - and more often than not you will see them back on court with their former coaches with their latest players laughing and joking and supporting each other. AND its no surprise that they often rehire their coaches again too - and if a player forgets to pack their coach for a tournament, more often than not you will find that player working with Hernan Gumy - who in my humble opinon is the "floater coach"

I think it is really great to see the strong "Team Spirit" the South American Team has. More countries could learn from their example.
It`s not that idyllic all the time There are some good cat fights too
But I agree that the SA players´ relation with their coaches and/or teams can be very different from the one Americans and Europeans (not all of them) players have. I`m not saying they are better, just different...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rosie
Btw - GWH - how could you forget the lovely Gaby Markus in your list of Coria's coaches? Mind you - he only lasted a couple of months so maybe it isn't worth remembering
I think everyone knew he wouldn´t last much... He was a "transition coach"

Last edited by lau : 10-23-2005 at 02:52 PM.
lau is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2005, 03:03 PM   #14
country flag *Ljubica*
Occasional Visitor
 
*Ljubica*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 52,208
*Ljubica* has a reputation beyond repute*Ljubica* has a reputation beyond repute*Ljubica* has a reputation beyond repute*Ljubica* has a reputation beyond repute*Ljubica* has a reputation beyond repute*Ljubica* has a reputation beyond repute*Ljubica* has a reputation beyond repute*Ljubica* has a reputation beyond repute*Ljubica* has a reputation beyond repute*Ljubica* has a reputation beyond repute*Ljubica* has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: The Changing of the Guard

Quote:
Originally Posted by lau
It`s not that idyllic all the time There are some good cat fights too
But I agree that the SA players´ relation with their coaches and/or teams can be very different from the one Americans and Europeans (not all of them) players have. I`m not saying they are better, just different...


I think everyone knew he wouldn´t last much... He was a "transition coach"
But did he know that Mind you, he's back with Massu again now - via Giovanni Lapentti and a short stint with Vinny Spadea (what a combination ). I agree with you that's it's not always idyllic though - far from it - most definately!!!
__________________
AJDE SRBIJA


Supporting Djoković, Tipsarević, Soderling, Tursunov, Youzhny, Cilić and quite a few more
*Ljubica* is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 10-23-2005, 03:53 PM   #15
country flag cobalt60
Pacific Northwest Home
 
cobalt60's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 31,555
cobalt60 has a reputation beyond reputecobalt60 has a reputation beyond reputecobalt60 has a reputation beyond reputecobalt60 has a reputation beyond reputecobalt60 has a reputation beyond reputecobalt60 has a reputation beyond reputecobalt60 has a reputation beyond reputecobalt60 has a reputation beyond reputecobalt60 has a reputation beyond reputecobalt60 has a reputation beyond reputecobalt60 has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: The Changing of the Guard

Thank you Rosie! I was hoping that you might post-you were someone I knew would have good information. And I didn't mean to single out any one group of players. It is just that the commentators did and made it seem that the SA's were different as a whole group. That one bit is what disturbed me somewhat.
And Paulie-very true about life in general but I won't go into philosophical/psychological issues about why people throw the blame onto others.
cobalt60 is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


Copyright (C) Verticalscope Inc
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
vBCredits v1.4 Copyright ©2007, PixelFX Studios