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Old 08-23-2005, 07:29 PM   #31
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Default Re: LANCE ARMSTRONG TESTED POSITIVE!

Hm, this is all news to me. Wonder where I've been?
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Old 08-23-2005, 08:46 PM   #32
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Default Re: LANCE ARMSTRONG TESTED POSITIVE!

You tell 'em Tangy! This is a somewhat misleading thread because once I read the thread title I thought Lance Armstrong had recently tested positive. But thankfully that's not the case. And the last time I looked 1999 was in the last century. Also, doesn't the French newspaper L'Equipe have anything better to do than try to discredit Lance Armstrong? I have feared for years that certain European forces would try to plant drugs on Armstrong or in his hotel or luggage because they were possibly desperate enough to try to keep Armstrong from winning the Tour de France year after year. But that thankfully never happened.

Well said Miguel Indurain.
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Old 08-23-2005, 08:49 PM   #33
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Default Re: LANCE ARMSTRONG TESTED POSITIVE!

All the top athletes are on juice,why is it so hard to understand?
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Old 08-23-2005, 08:50 PM   #34
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Default Re: LANCE ARMSTRONG TESTED POSITIVE!

That's just not true tennisman. I suppose the top tennis players are all on "juice" too.
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Old 08-23-2005, 08:56 PM   #35
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Default Re: LANCE ARMSTRONG TESTED POSITIVE!

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Originally Posted by the cat
Also, doesn't the French newspaper L'Equipe have anything better to do than try to discredit Lance Armstrong?
Since they can't write about a French cyclist winning the Tour de France for 20 years, they at least have to stay occupied ... and what could be better than reporting about this American jerk Armstrong who doped and bring this 6 year old sample to light now after he retired?

There is no 2nd sample from 1999 available, so neither can Armstrong prove his innocence, nor can they prove his guilt.
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Old 08-23-2005, 09:07 PM   #36
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Default Re: LANCE ARMSTRONG TESTED POSITIVE!

Good point Neely. I think discrediting Lance Armstrong would have been so much easier in recent years if he had failed a drug test while dominating the Tour de France. But that didn't happen and now his incredible cycling career is over and Armstrong is regarded as an American hero like it or not. And by the way all Armstrong's great cycling success pales in his remarkable comeback from near death with Testicular cancer!
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Old 08-23-2005, 09:21 PM   #37
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Default Re: LANCE ARMSTRONG TESTED POSITIVE!

Quote:
Originally Posted by the cat
That's just not true tennisman. I suppose the top tennis players are all on "juice" too.

I cant say it as a fact but i have a strong feeling that they are
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Old 08-23-2005, 09:24 PM   #38
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Default Re: LANCE ARMSTRONG TESTED POSITIVE!

L'Equipe is not just an ordinary tabloid but a serious sports newspaper with a good reputation.

You may feel that it's just the French being pissed off that an American has won the TdF so many times and that they have no real French rival but you are speculating just as much by doing so.

L'Equipe talks about a number of anonymous urine samples, with each a specific number on it with which you can identify the cyclist, dating back to the 1999 tour (and if I'm not mistaken, it was a sample taken after a tough etape - an ride through the Alps or something...I still have to read the article in French). According to the news here, l'Equipe managed to track down documents with those ID numbers and names so they know that this particular sample with EPO has been identified as coming from Lance Armstrong. The trouble is that this can't be used as evidence just because those samples are supposed to remain anonymous.

Now, the proof is not crystal clear. I agree.
However, it's far too easy to just dismiss this as French jealousy or a 'witch hunt by some tabloid because that's using a double standard IMO.
Some of you claim that the French are just throwing mud against the wall and see what sticks just because they resent the fact that an American won it? Fine, but aren't you doing the same thing by calling it a tabloid, by refusing to believe whatever they may claim just because you ASSUME that it's done out of jealousy?

Why are you so sure that L'Equipe is wrong and they have no proof at all?
Isn't it biased and a bit too easy to assume that they are wrong and those evil French just can't handle an American victory?

This case is interesting. A urine sample, traced to Lance Armstrong that tested positive on EPO? Hell, I'm interested.
The articles talks about other urine samples with positive doping test results and I would be interested in finding out these names (or rather, I would love to see this investigated properly).

On the other hand, I sure hope that L'Equipe knows what they're talking about because it's very low to just drag the good reputation of Lance through the mud based on very little evidence.
You only do that if you're absolutely sure of yourself IMO so I hope that they know what they are talking about.

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Old 08-23-2005, 09:39 PM   #39
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Default Re: LANCE ARMSTRONG TESTED POSITIVE!

Castafiore, I'm not speculating at all. I was a bit sarcastic with this "American jerk Armstrong comment" talking with a loose tongue and I don't live in the Middle Age to think that the French couldn't handle an American victory and I agree that it's wrong to call a paper like l'Équipe a tabloid, but as long as they don't have a 2nd sample or something better than Armstrong's name coming from probes that normally should remain anonymous and God knows what methods were used to track Armstrong's name back, everything else is speculation for me until somebody brings a REAL prove of Armstrong's guilt like it's normally done.
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Old 08-23-2005, 10:12 PM   #40
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Default Re: LANCE ARMSTRONG TESTED POSITIVE!

Well, this is still just an allegation from whoever, and Armstrong denies that he used drugs in 1999, which is 6 years ago, right?

We don't know the truth, yet...
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Old 08-23-2005, 11:00 PM   #41
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Default Re: LANCE ARMSTRONG TESTED POSITIVE!

Of course l'Equipe did not name any French athletes and the only one they named was Armstrong. Probably he did take EPO but he certainly was not the only one and why didn't the drug committee say anything about this?
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Old 08-23-2005, 11:14 PM   #42
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Default Re: LANCE ARMSTRONG TESTED POSITIVE!

Best picture is Armstrong together with Bush on a bicycle. Two liars at their finest.
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Old 08-23-2005, 11:25 PM   #43
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Default Re: LANCE ARMSTRONG TESTED POSITIVE!

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Old 08-23-2005, 11:31 PM   #44
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Default Re: LANCE ARMSTRONG TESTED POSITIVE!

Here's the AP version. They say the French mag is suspect, not Lance.

Lance Armstrong Denies Doping Allegations By ANGELA DOLAND, Associated Press Writer
16 minutes ago



PARIS - Faced with yet another report that he cheated his way to a Tour de France victory, Lance Armstrong responded Tuesday the same way he has since the doping whispers began during the first of his seven straight wins: "I never took performance enhancing drugs."

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In a four-page article headlined "The Armstrong Lie," the French sports daily L'Equipe printed copies of documents suggesting six urine samples he provided during his first championship in 1999 tested positive for the red blood cell-booster erythropoietin, or EPO.

The drug was on the list of banned substances at the time but there was no effective test to detect it.

Tour de France director Jean-Marie Leblanc said the report published Tuesday appeared "credible" and meticulously researched, adding that Armstrong must have a chance to rebut the claims.

"We are very shocked, very troubled by the revelations we read this morning," Leblanc told RTL radio.

Armstrong, a frequent target of L'Equipe, vehemently denied the allegations.

"Unfortunately, the witch hunt continues and tomorrow's article is nothing short of tabloid journalism," Armstrong wrote on his Web site. "I will simply restate what I have said many times: I have never taken performance-enhancing drugs."

The allegations surfaced seven years later because EPO tests on the 1999 samples were carried out only last year — when scientists at a lab outside Paris used them for research to perfect EPO testing. The national anti-doping laboratory in Chatenay-Malabry said it promised to hand its finding to the World Anti-Doping Agency, provided they were never used to penalize riders.

L'Equipe's investigation was based on urine B samples — the second of two samples used in doping tests. The A batch was used in 1999 for analysis at the time. Without those samples, any disciplinary action against Armstrong would be impossible, French Sports Minister Jean-Francois Lamour said.

The governing body of world cycling did not begin using a urine test for EPO until 2001, though it was banned in 1990. For years, it had been impossible to detect the drug, which builds endurance by boosting the production of oxygen-rich red blood cells.

Jacques de Ceaurriz, the head of France's anti-doping laboratory, which developed the EPO urine test, told Europe-1 radio that at least 15 urine samples from the 1999 Tour had tested positive for EPO.

Separately, the lab said it could not confirm that the positive results were Armstrong's. It noted that the samples were anonymous, bearing only a six-digit number to identify the rider, and could not be matched with the name of any one cyclist.

However, L'Equipe said it was able to make the match.

On one side of the page, it showed what it claimed were the results of EPO tests from anonymous riders used for lab research. On the other, it showed Armstrong's medical certificates, signed by doctors and riders after doping tests — and bearing the same identifying number printed on the results.

"It will be very interesting to see what UCI does and what the U.S. Cycling Federation does and what Lance Armstrong has to say," WADA chairman Dick Pound said. "If the evidence is seen as credible then, yes, he has an obligation to come forward and specifically give his comments, especially after his previous comments that he has never used drugs.

"If anything were found, we couldn't do anything because we didn't even exist in 1999. But it's important that the truth must always be made clear," Pound added.

Representatives for Armstrong said he was in Austin, Texas, where he lives and did not wish to comment beyond the statement on his Web site.

A year before Armstrong won his first Tour title, the race faced its worst doping scandal after police caught a Festina team employee with a stash of drugs. Riders were ejected and others quit, almost forcing the Tour to collapse.

Armstrong has been dogged by questions in the French media about how someone whose testicular cancer had spread to his lungs and brain could rise to the top of one of the most grueling sporting events in the world.

Armstrong angrily appeared at a news conference that year to explain that trace amounts of cortisone found in his system were from a prescription skin cream to treat saddle sores.

The following year, Armstrong and his U.S. Postal Service team became the subject of a French investigation into whether they used banned substances during the 2000 race. The probe was closed in 2002 for lack of evidence.

L'Equipe, whose parent company is closely linked to the Tour, often questioned Armstrong's clean record and frequently took jabs at him — portraying him as too arrogant, too corporate and too good to be for real.

"Never to such an extent, probably, has the departure of a champion been welcomed with such widespread relief," the paper griped the day after Armstrong's record seventh straight win.

A former L'Equipe journalist, Pierre Ballester, was co-author of a book published last year that contained doping allegations against Armstrong. He wrote "L.A. Confidential, the Secrets of Lance Armstrong" with The Sunday Times sportswriter David Walsh.

In the book, one of Armstrong's former assistants claimed that the American once asked her to dispose of used syringes and give him makeup to conceal needle marks on his arms.

Armstrong has taken libel action against The Sunday Times after the British newspaper reprinted allegations in a review of the book in June 2004. The case is to go to trial in London's High Court in November.

Victor Hugo Pena, Armstrong's former U.S. Postal Service teammate, said the French were bad losers who could never accept his supremacy on the Tour.

"What Lance achieved nobody can take away," Pena, who helped Armstrong to three of his seven Tour victories, told Colombia's Caracol radio Tuesday. Pena said Armstrong was so closely watched during the Tour that it would have been impossible for him to use performance-enhancing drugs.

"Not only did the sports laboratories constantly test him, but video cameras were set up in his room and police agents constantly monitored Lance's movements and who was visiting him and even his phone conversations," Pena said.

Armstrong retired from cycling after his record seventh Tour victory last month. In his parting speech, he addressed the people who believe he was doping.

"I'm sorry for you," Armstrong said. "I'm sorry you don't believe in miracles."
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Old 08-23-2005, 11:33 PM   #45
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Default Re: LANCE ARMSTRONG TESTED POSITIVE!

It's interesting to note the American/European divide on this thread.
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