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Old 12-10-2013, 12:01 AM   #46
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Default Re: "Ukraine cancels trade pact with EU" and "thousands gather in Kyiv for pro-EU ral

Ukraine already had revolution in 2004. They got the president they wanted, but he ended up losing next election with only 5% of vote.

Joining EU is a foolish choice. But at least wait till next elections which are only over one year in 2015. They are protesting against a democratically elected president.
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Old 12-10-2013, 02:57 AM   #47
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Default Re: "Ukraine cancels trade pact with EU" and "thousands gather in Kyiv for pro-EU ral

Quote:
They are protesting against a democratically elected president.
...and in a democratic society, you're allowed to do this. So what's the problem? They're not violent...they're simply expressing their outrage at seeing their country's freedom and future sold for bribes. Are there really people who see "violence" against an old statue as a greater crime than the betrayal of a nation's dream for democracy, prosperity, and good governance?

In other news...Biden joins Barroso in warning Yanukovich not to sink further into thug tactics against the peaceful protestors:

Quote:
Vice President Biden called Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovych on Monday to express "deep concern about the situation in Ukraine and the growing potential for violence," the White House said.

The rest of the White House readout:

"The Vice President underscored the need to immediately de-escalate the situation and begin a dialogue with opposition leaders on developing a consensus way forward for Ukraine.

"He noted that violence has no place in a democratic society and is incompatible with our strategic relationship.

"The Vice President reaffirmed the strong support of the United States for Ukraine's European aspirations and welcomed President Yanukovych's commitment to maintaining this path.

"He underscored the close alignment of the United States and the European Union, and welcomed the upcoming visits of EU High Representative Catherine Ashton and State Department Assistant Secretary Victoria Nuland to Kyiv."
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Old 12-10-2013, 04:01 AM   #48
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Default Re: "Ukraine cancels trade pact with EU" and "thousands gather in Kyiv for pro-EU ral

Quote:
Originally Posted by KnifeInTheWater View Post
...and in a democratic society, you're allowed to do this. So what's the problem? They're not violent...they're simply expressing their outrage at seeing their country's freedom and future sold for bribes. Are there really people who see "violence" against an old statue as a greater crime than the betrayal of a nation's dream for democracy, prosperity, and good governance?

In other news...Biden joins Barroso in warning Yanukovich not to sink further into thug tactics against the peaceful protestors:
They're saying they won't leave until they announce immediate reelection. As for being non-violent I'm not so sure

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Old 12-10-2013, 11:16 AM   #49
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Default Re: "Ukraine cancels trade pact with EU" and "thousands gather in Kyiv for pro-EU ral

Putin has closed the RIA Novosti news agency and replaced it with a new organization called Russia Today. The new organization will be headed by an anti-western Putin adorer, who last year declared that the hearts of gay people should be cut out and burned when they die.

I guess things have moved on since then. Soon someone will ask the question of why wait until they die.
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Old 12-10-2013, 12:52 PM   #50
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Default Re: "Ukraine cancels trade pact with EU" and "thousands gather in Kyiv for pro-EU ral

I can't believe people believe this is simply about Ukraine being in the EU. It's simply about no letting Ukraine go the way Russia is going. As can be read below...

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Originally Posted by buddyholly View Post
Putin has closed the RIA Novosti news agency and replaced it with a new organization called Russia Today. The new organization will be headed by an anti-western Putin adorer, who last year declared that the hearts of gay people should be cut out and burned when they die.

I guess things have moved on since then. Soon someone will ask the question of why wait until they die.
I read about this too.

Way to go Putin.
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Old 12-10-2013, 03:05 PM   #51
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Default Re: "Ukraine cancels trade pact with EU" and "thousands gather in Kyiv for pro-EU ral

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Originally Posted by buddyholly View Post
Putin has closed the RIA Novosti news agency and replaced it with a new organization called Russia Today. The new organization will be headed by an anti-western Putin adorer, who last year declared that the hearts of gay people should be cut out and burned when they die.

I guess things have moved on since then. Soon someone will ask the question of why wait until they die.
We're talking about Ukraine here, not Russia. And Ukraine is not very gay friendly country.

As for antisemitism take a look yourself.

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Old 12-10-2013, 04:27 PM   #52
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Default Re: "Ukraine cancels trade pact with EU" and "thousands gather in Kyiv for pro-EU ral

OMG Warrior what point are you trying to make?!
Ukraine is gay intolerant, full of antisemitism state of violent people who at this moment are forcefully overthrowing the democratically elected president. Really?
I don't feel like there could be any constructive discussion with you so I'll refrain from explanations on every single wrong statement (belief) of yours.
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Old 12-10-2013, 04:41 PM   #53
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Default Re: "Ukraine cancels trade pact with EU" and "thousands gather in Kyiv for pro-EU ral

Quote:
Originally Posted by Warrior View Post
We're talking about Ukraine here, not Russia. And Ukraine is not very gay friendly country.


That homophobic attitude can be found in every country. It is when it becomes government policy that things get much uglier.
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Old 12-10-2013, 04:41 PM   #54
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Default Re: "Ukraine cancels trade pact with EU" and "thousands gather in Kyiv for pro-EU ral

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Originally Posted by Rychu View Post
Blowing that Lenin statue up was quite a straightforward conclusion of what those guys think about USSR legacy. Kudos for their defiance of post-commies propaganda served in their country (esp. in it's eastern parts).

I feel sorry for fellow Ukrainians. On one hand, there's a post-Soviet, autocratic, corrupted and imperialistic Russian regime. On the other, there's a centralized, bureaucratic EU, blinded by politically correct agenda, suppressing the economic freedom of it's citizens with billions of "must/can't" directives.

IMO, they should get to NATO, to secure from Russia's claws, but stay away from bureaucratic Brussels. Just as Norway did.
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Old 12-10-2013, 05:01 PM   #55
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Default Re: "Ukraine cancels trade pact with EU" and "thousands gather in Kyiv for pro-EU ral

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OMG Warrior what point are you trying to make?!
Ukraine is gay intolerant, full of antisemitism state of violent people who at this moment are forcefully overthrowing the democratically elected president. Really?
I don't feel like there could be any constructive discussion with you so I'll refrain from explanations on every single wrong statement (belief) of yours.
antisemitic(neo-nazi) atitudes are very popular in the western Ukraine, which is the biggest chunk of pro-EU, anti-Russian sentiments.
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Old 12-10-2013, 05:45 PM   #56
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Default Re: "Ukraine cancels trade pact with EU" and "thousands gather in Kyiv for pro-EU ral

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Originally Posted by Timot View Post
IMO, they should get to NATO, to secure from Russia's claws, but stay away from bureaucratic Brussels. Just as Norway did.
Now it is impossible, unfortunately. Because we have Russian naval base in Sebastopol. They must have left by 2017 according to post USSR collapse agreements, but Yanukovich prolonged that "lease" until 2050.

Quote:
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antisemitic(neo-nazi) atitudes are very popular in the western Ukraine, which is the biggest chunk of pro-EU, anti-Russian sentiments.
You tell me? I don't know where are you getting your information from. Youtube? I've spent my youth in the western Ukraine. There really is no more antisemitic moods than in other (successful) European countries. Episodes happen, as anywhere. Btw, there are no anti-Russian sentiments in the western Ukraine as well. This may come as a shock to you but Russians LOVE going on vacation to our Carpathian Mountains and beautiful cities like Lviv and they feel friendly and warm atmosphere there. There is no such thing as anti-Russian here, there is such thing as anti-Putin.
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Old 12-10-2013, 08:26 PM   #57
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Default Re: "Ukraine cancels trade pact with EU" and "thousands gather in Kyiv for pro-EU ral

Quote:
Originally Posted by sweetkit View Post
Now it is impossible, unfortunately. Because we have Russian naval base in Sebastopol. They must have left by 2017 according to post USSR collapse agreements, but Yanukovich prolonged that "lease" until 2050.


You tell me? I don't know where are you getting your information from. Youtube? I've spent my youth in the western Ukraine. There really is no more antisemitic moods than in other (successful) European countries. Episodes happen, as anywhere. Btw, there are no anti-Russian sentiments in the western Ukraine as well. This may come as a shock to you but Russians LOVE going on vacation to our Carpathian Mountains and beautiful cities like Lviv and they feel friendly and warm atmosphere there. There is no such thing as anti-Russian here, there is such thing as anti-Putin.
My opinion is based on popularity of Stepan Bandera in that part of the country.
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Old 12-11-2013, 07:22 AM   #58
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Default Re: "Ukraine cancels trade pact with EU" and "thousands gather in Kyiv for pro-EU ral

Tough night
http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...ades-chainsaws

Quote:
Ashton remains in Kiev but this did not stop Yanukovych launching an assault on the square. During the night Ashton said: "I observe with sadness that police use force to remove peaceful people."

The US secretary of state, John Kerry, released a strongly worded statement on the events of the night: "The United States expresses its disgust with the decision of Ukrainian authorities to meet the peaceful protest in Kiev's Maidan Square with riot police, bulldozers and batons, rather than with respect for democratic rights and human dignity. This response is neither acceptable nor does it befit a democracy."
Though the whole article is worth read to understand the situation.

Heading there in a couple of hours


Last edited by sweetkit : 12-11-2013 at 07:36 AM. Reason: upd
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Old 12-11-2013, 11:30 AM   #59
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Default Re: "Ukraine cancels trade pact with EU" and "thousands gather in Kyiv for pro-EU ral

My newspaper has half the front page devoted to a photo of Klitschko on the barricades.
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Old 12-11-2013, 12:32 PM   #60
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Default Re: "Ukraine cancels trade pact with EU" and "thousands gather in Kyiv for pro-EU ral

Thank you for the updates, sweetkit. Good luck.
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