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View Poll Results: Vote for speeding up the courts or against it!

Speed up the courts 299 80.59%
Leave them as they are 72 19.41%
Voters: 371. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 12-09-2013, 09:11 PM   #1801
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Default Re: When will the slow court/homogenisation era end?

Huge manipulation of surface speed basically in a way killed tennis as a serious sport.
The truth is there is too much money and business interests so real sportive focus is lost. It is basically crime what they did because of money and it can not be seriously justified or defended.
Nadal and Djokovic will always be in shadow of this manipulation, I mean we can never be sure are they really so good compared to previous gold era guys since conditions are just not comparable and this is huge minus for both guys no matter what they achieve in present time.
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Old 12-09-2013, 10:34 PM   #1802
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Default Re: When will the slow court/homogenisation era end?

Absolute rubbish!^

Since the slow down of court's tennis has never been more popular. We had the Federer vs Nadal, brief but exhilerating rivalry with the Wimbledon final in 2008 to cap it off. We have entertaining crowd favourites like Monfils, Tsonga and Verdasco lighting up the stage. This utter bollocks about how tennis has lost it's creativity is nonsense. If it were the case, player's like Tsonga, Berdych, Del Potro and Verdasco wouldn't be on the major scene.

Now we have scintilating matches between Wawrinka and Djokovic, Djokovic and Nadal, Djokovic and Murray... Note this: Wawrinka's rise to the top was through playing aggressive tennis. Yes, it's true, you can survive as an attacking player but you have to be a lot fitter than you used to be and the quality, that's quality of your "rally ball" has to be very good. Rally ball (Implying high netclearance and depth to the baseline) If you don't have a ball you can maintain emphasis with against an opponent, in simpler words, a shot to grind with, then you can generally forget it.

The courts did not slow down after Federer's dominance of the years between 2004 and 2007 ... they slowed down not long after Sampras's retirement and then they peaked at slowness in around 2006. By which time Federer was still dominating and still producing magical displays. We had Safin winning the US Open in 05, he's predominantly an attacking shotmaking player. We had Fernando Gonzaelz with the gigantic forehand reach the Australian Open final. (Where he overcame Nadal)

People don;t get that Nadal, Djokovic and even Murray have formed into world class players, they're fit as anything, tall and strong, hold weapons and possess ridiculous movement and defensive skills. Federer unfortunately coinciding with these guy's developments declined physically and had his lack of rally ball on the backhand side exposed. It's time people stopped acting like a bunch of spoilt bitter brats, Federer had his time in the sun, most whom understand the sport regard him as the GOAT despite the negative head to head with Rafa.

Quit exagerating the court speed's to make yourselves seem all traditional and purist. Most of you were in nappies during the late 90s and early 2000s.
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Old 12-09-2013, 10:34 PM   #1803
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Default Re: When will the slow court/homogenisation era end?

emotion makes an interesting point regarding rivalry.

For instance, if in 10 years, there was a genuine, unavoidable drop in quality coupled with lack of a historic rivarly, would the surfaces change once more?

I think it's likely that something would happen, but it depends on too many variables.
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Old 12-09-2013, 10:39 PM   #1804
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Default Re: When will the slow court/homogenisation era end?

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Originally Posted by ClutchOnandWin View Post
Never.

Longer ralleis = better viewing for "most", better viewing = better recognition, better recognition = more money from the recognisers wanting to watch.

It's an entertainment business. If no one watches, the sport dies. (Due to lack of funds)
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There's a bigger picture behind it.

Black and white tennis isn't as colourful for "non-purists". Is it an ace or an unreturnable? The returner playing against a decent serve and vollier making a passing shot 2 times out 10? That makes service games predictable and a rolling inviteability....
By getting longer rallies it doesn't mean that we're getting better quality. It depends from matchup to matchup. But i see your point and i agree
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Old 12-09-2013, 10:39 PM   #1805
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Default Re: When will the slow court/homogenisation era end?

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Originally Posted by ClutchOnandWin View Post
Absolute rubbish!^

Since the slow down of court's tennis has never been more popular. We had the Federer vs Nadal, brief but exhilerating rivalry with the Wimbledon final in 2008 to cap it off. We have entertaining crowd favourites like Monfils, Tsonga and Verdasco lighting up the stage. This utter bollocks about how tennis has lost it's creativity is nonsense. If it were the case, player's like Tsonga, Berdych, Del Potro and Verdasco wouldn't be on the major scene.

Now we have scintilating matches between Wawrinka and Djokovic, Djokovic and Nadal, Djokovic and Murray... Note this: Wawrinka's rise to the top was through playing aggressive tennis. Yes, it's true, you can survive as an attacking player but you have to be a lot fitter than you used to be and the quality, that's quality of your "rally ball" has to be very good. Rally ball (Implying high netclearance and depth to the baseline) If you don't have a ball you can maintain emphasis with against an opponent, in simpler words, a shot to grind with, then you can generally forget it.

The courts did not slow down after Federer's dominance of the years between 2004 and 2007 ... they slowed down not long after Sampras's retirement and then they peaked at slowness in around 2006. By which time Federer was still dominating and still producing magical displays. We had Safin winning the US Open in 05, he's predominantly an attacking shotmaking player. We had Fernando Gonzaelz with the gigantic forehand reach the Australian Open final. (Where he overcame Nadal)

People don;t get that Nadal, Djokovic and even Murray have formed into world class players, they're fit as anything, tall and strong, hold weapons and possess ridiculous movement and defensive skills. Federer unfortunately coinciding with these guy's developments declined physically and had his lack of rally ball on the backhand side exposed. It's time people stopped acting like a bunch of spoilt bitter brats, Federer had his time in the sun, most whom understand the sport regard him as the GOAT despite the negative head to head with Rafa.

Quit exagerating the court speed's to make yourselves seem all traditional and purist. Most of you were in nappies during the late 90s and early 2000s.
I couldn't disagree more with what you're saying. But it's your opinion.

However, the last part is ignorance. A 'purist' (a word that keeps popping up on MTF these days I've noticed) is just that. Someone who was young at a certain time, yet can still partake in discussion during that time (without blagging and it's easy to tell). That shows that someone has done their research and has a genuine passion for the sport, in one way or another.

Whatever your opinion may be, I'll always have time for someone like that.
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Old 12-09-2013, 11:07 PM   #1806
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Default Re: Speed up the Courts

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Originally Posted by Mike473 View Post
I am just turning 38 years old and watched and played tennis consistently since I was about 12-13 years old. I remember during the 1990's, many folks complained that the courts were too fast. We had some great serve and volley tennis players. Some players, like Sampras, Krajicek etc.. could get hot on serve and basically be unbreakable.

It appears to me that they started to slow the courts down about 10 years ago or so, and may have pushed it too far the other way. For example, my favorite player these days is Nadal. Nadal plays an excited brand of tennis. But, if he were to play on faster grass and hardcourts, I think he would be a lot more vulnerable to big servers than he is today.

Does anyone else think they moved to far the other way on court speeds? Especially on Grass?
Now, this guy is 40 years of age and experienced tennis during the 80s, he specifically noted when they sped up the bloody courts. Next person that mentions 2008 as being the year things changed deserves to be fish slapped.
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Old 12-09-2013, 11:10 PM   #1807
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Default Re: When will the slow court/homogenisation era end?

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I couldn't disagree more with what you're saying. But it's your opinion.

However, the last part is ignorance. A 'purist' (a word that keeps popping up on MTF these days I've noticed) is just that. Someone who was young at a certain time, yet can still partake in discussion during that time (without blagging and it's easy to tell). That shows that someone has done their research and has a genuine passion for the sport, in one way or another.

Whatever your opinion may be, I'll always have time for someone like that.
They can, but toomany people are simply saying "speed up the courts" for the sake of it, or because they are die-hard roger federer fans. You know this is the reality of the situation. 90% of the people whom protest it are conforming.

It just seems like the "cool" thing to say. "Noooo, speed the courts up, all we have are pushers in today's game wa, wa, wa" They haven't gotta clue.
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Old 12-09-2013, 11:29 PM   #1808
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Default Re: Speed up the Courts

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Now, this guy is 40 years of age and experienced tennis during the 80s, he specifically noted when they sped up the bloody courts. Next person that mentions 2008 as being the year things changed deserves to be fish slapped.
You didn't get his point, he actually agreed that the courts are too slow.

Anyway, the problem is not that they started slowing them down after fast 90s. The problem is, that they didn't stop with that and made them even slower, even though we had great and offensive, baseline rallies in mid 2000s. Some matches from Fed's era seem nearly like table tennis compared to current speed.
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Old 12-09-2013, 11:31 PM   #1809
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Default Re: "Speed up the courts and general court speed Thread"

I'm ready to listen to anybodies views Burrow, because trust me, I'm not the elitist sort of person and I try and stay open minded. However there is somewhere where you genuinely need to draw the line. I can't help feeling as these tribal wars have panned out across the internet and particularly this board, many people are misled and form misconceptions.

What started out as people making lots of tounge and cheek remarks has almost less to miseducating the younger generation of teenage fans. I see many blinkered opinions thrown across on here. This is a classic example right here. Suggesting tennis was old school or middle era before 2008. lol When I read the title I actually couldn't be bothered to address it but glad you did.

Lot's identify Federer's dominance as the years where court's were fast. lol If one person says something, another copies and they all start saying it eventually and after a period of time, it becomes fact. We have a constant game of chinese whispers going on.

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Old 12-09-2013, 11:55 PM   #1810
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Default Re: "Speed up the courts and general court speed Thread"

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Originally Posted by ClutchOnandWin View Post
I'm ready to listen to anybodies views Burrow, because trust me, I'm not the elitist sort of person and I try and stay open minded. However there is somewhere where you genuinely need to draw the line. I can't help feeling as these tribal wars have panned out across the internet and particularly this board, many people are misled and form misconceptions.

What started out as people making lots of tounge and cheek remarks has almost less to uneducating the younger generation of teenage fans. I see many blinkered opinions thrown across on here. This is a classic example right here. Suggesting tennis was old school or middle era before 2008. lol When I read the title I actually couldn't be bothered to address it but glad you did.

Lot's identify Federer's dominance as the years where court's were fast. lol If one person says something, another copies and they all start saying it eventually and after a period of time, it becomes fact. We have a constant game of chinese whispers going on.
My reasoning behind my own preference of surface variation has absolutely nothing to do with who I prefer. I'll try to keep my reasoning concise.

I think that in the year 2000, the surfaces were almost ideal. Bear in mind, my categorisation of court speed is with respect to those times, which I believe are genuine and valid.

We had an Australian Open which was medium-slow, though due to the nature of Rebound Ace, could speed up (in the heat). Roland Garros was slow. Wimbledon was fast. The US Open was medium-fast. Accordingly, Masters Series tournaments were also varied (with the edition of Carpet, which produced one of my all-time favourite Masters Series finals in Safin Philippoussis).

There was genuine variation thus a variation in playing styles. I have to reitterate once more that racket technology has not improved since almost 20 years (yes, this is true) and string technology has not improved in almost 15 years (also true). Ignoring these irrelevant factors, the sport could just be the same today.

Almost 10 years ago now (I can't believe it, it makes a young man feel old) spectators marvelled at a young powerhouse in Robin Soderling taking out Rainer Schuettler (2003's finalist) in an epic, a resurgent Marat Safin playing powerful all-court tennis to surprise everyone and make the final, Hicham Arazi display ridiculous effortless finesse (especially in taking out Mark Philippoussis), Guillermo Canas counter punch his way past Tim Henman in one of the decade's classics and Roger Federer clinch it at his very best.

A variation of players, playing all-court tennis on what was a medium-slow hard court. Why was there a range of both players with attacking styles and defensive styles and why was there plenty of all-court talents? A lot of that can be attributed to the year round conditions of the tour. That's why a lot of people miss surface polarisation. To me, that's what made tennis tennis.

Today, I long for attacking tennis. Yesterday, I loved the grinder (Canas, for instance), I loved the attacking baseliner (Agassi) and I loved the all-court player (Safin). Funnily enough, I couldn't stand Pete Sampras's personality and pulled for the underdog 9/10 times. If he were playing today, I'd pull for him out of respect for the sport. That demonstrates my impartial attitude. I was never a fan of Federer, but today I will support him 9/10 times.

It has nothing to do with player preference, but the sport itself. I hope for a long career partially in tennis, you don't feel that way if you're a 'player' fan.

I can only speak for myself, that's my take.
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Old 12-19-2013, 04:17 PM   #1811
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Default Re: "Speed up the courts and general court speed Thread"

Had some questions in #AskStako:

“@AugustOnSports: #AskStako rank the slams based on the bounce height”. 1.@AustralianOpen 2.@rolandgarros 3.@usopen 4.@Wimbledon ( weather)

I don't know why people then often say AO isn't such a high-bouncing surface.

Stako answered to this earlier this year:

“@NNemeroff: Rank the majors in order of court speed from fastest to slowest #AskStako” @usopen @Wimbledon @AustralianOpen @rolandgarros

I assume he speaks about USO's outside courts that seem to me faster than Ashe. I'm not sure Ashe is faster than Wimby.

One more question:

August on Sports ‏@AugustOnSports 37 min

@Stako_tennis #AskStako Are homogenized slowish surfaces good for the game or would you prefer more variety in surfaces?

Sergiy Stakhovsky ‏@Stako_tennis 28 min

@AugustOnSports a little mix would be better.
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Old 12-19-2013, 05:33 PM   #1812
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Default Re: "Speed up the courts and general court speed Thread"

Uncle Toni hates this thread.
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Old 12-30-2013, 02:41 PM   #1813
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Default Re: "Speed up the courts and general court speed Thread"

All journalists on site in Brisbane are reporting that the court is surprisingly fast. Interesting to see if this change is just isolated or perpetuated for the Australian Open too.

There is a slight chance this is just gratitude for Federer accepting to play the tournament and the organizers hoping he plays as many matches as possible.
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Old 12-30-2013, 03:29 PM   #1814
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Default Re: "Speed up the courts and general court speed Thread"

Anyone who claims USO is faster than Wimbledon cannot be taken seriously.
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Old 12-30-2013, 03:30 PM   #1815
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Default Re: "Speed up the courts and general court speed Thread"

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Anyone who claims USO is faster than Wimbledon cannot be taken seriously.
USO is faster than second week Wimbledon.
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