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Old 09-12-2013, 08:36 PM   #31
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Default Re: Pat Cash : Are Rafael Nadal Nadal and Novak Djokovic boring?

Djokovic is definately boring as hell now. In 2011 his game was jawdropping impressive! and it was just a pleasure to watch him dominate..

Nadal has become more agressive which makes his matches watchable nowadays.

Federer, even at his worst is still more entertaining to watch than both / anyone else. He keeps points short, shows great variety and is super-agressive.
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Old 09-12-2013, 10:06 PM   #32
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Default Re: Pat Cash : Are Rafael Nadal Nadal and Novak Djokovic boring?

Faster Courts = Serve Bots/Ball Bashers triumph.

Raonic completes the career grand slam
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Old 09-12-2013, 10:21 PM   #33
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Default Re: Pat Cash : Are Rafael Nadal Nadal and Novak Djokovic boring?

Quote:
They are not better all-round players than the likes of Boris Becker or Pete Sampras
Somebody, either never watched them play and move on clay, or just thinks grass and fast hard courts are all that matters. Either way that is pure nonsense.
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Old 09-12-2013, 10:33 PM   #34
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Default Re: Pat Cash : Are Rafael Nadal Nadal and Novak Djokovic boring?

Pat Cash is onto something. Maybe he knows a thing or two about this sport called tennis.
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Old 09-12-2013, 10:41 PM   #35
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Default Re: Pat Cash : Are Rafael Nadal Nadal and Novak Djokovic boring?

Quote:
What is getting mundane is watching the same tactic in every single match of every single grand slam for the last five or six years.
Well if every single baseline rally accounts for one tactic (and serving requires zero tactics), then how many tactics are there in all of tennis? Two?

Quote:
They are not better all-round players than the likes of Boris Becker or Pete Sampras. Boris and Pete were baseline players, they were attacking players and they could do it against baseliners like Mats Wilander or Andre Agassi.


Quote:
Now that was entertainment. You never knew which way it was going to go.

Quote:
Nadal and Djokovic are exceptional athletes, there’s no doubt about it, but to say they are better athletes than past greats like Bjorn Borg and Stefan Edberg is just nonsense.
Quote:
This is some crap drummed up by somebody and I think it’s an insult to past players. Modern players don’t dive around the net, they don’t deliver backhand smashes, they don’t have to twist and turn like past generations.
Well I think "this is some crap drummed up by somebody and it's an insult to present players." I could make essentially the same argument as Mr. Cash right here. The problem is, I'd have nothing useful to contribute to the discussion.

And he's a hypocrite. He points out all of the different sub-tactics used at the net, but pretends like these premutations don't exist at the baseline.

Quote:
Is this entertainment? Is this good enough?
It's not entertainment, it's sports. And yes it's good enough, it's the best in the world going at it at every single tournament. They are there to win. If you want guys who are there to entertain, go to the movies instead.
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Old 09-12-2013, 11:09 PM   #36
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Default Re: Pat Cash : Are Rafael Nadal Nadal and Novak Djokovic boring?

I thought this year's US men's final was tedious. Little variety just grinding back and forth.
And Serena's comment was interesting but just why have the hard courts been slowed down?
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Old 09-12-2013, 11:31 PM   #37
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Default Re: Pat Cash : Are Rafael Nadal Nadal and Novak Djokovic boring?

I'm guessing the rackets have become so much better and more high-tech, that it's really forced the Slams to tone down their surfaces. Remember, the only surface that has gotten faster is clay.

If you tried to put today's GOAT servers on the old grass courts, every game would be 7-6 7-6 6-7 6-7 452-452 (ret.) Or else a GOAT returner like Djokovic would win 6-4 6-4 6-4 by getting lucky on a few returns winners.

Meanwhile, put Nadal's 55,000,000 rpm topspin on the Roland Garros of 20 years ago the balls would bounce so high it would catch the moon's orbit, thereby giving new definition of the term "moonball."

That's just a guess, I really have no positive answer but that's my speculation.
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Old 09-12-2013, 11:42 PM   #38
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Default Re: Pat Cash : Are Rafael Nadal Nadal and Novak Djokovic boring?

You cant blame players for using the same tactics if those tactics are superior to everything else out there. Surface speed changes and/or racket technology have little to do with this. Todays players are just way more skilled and have way better physique/ fitness than even 10 years ago. Its just a natural evolution of the game thats driving players to play with more or less a 'one style to rule them all' brand of tennis.
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Old 09-12-2013, 11:48 PM   #39
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Default Re: Pat Cash : Are Rafael Nadal Nadal and Novak Djokovic boring?

Quote:
Originally Posted by warehouse View Post
Serena: "Hard courts have gotten so slow since when I started playing"


Q. Nadal is undefeated on hard courts this year and you're undefeated on clay. Patrick said this year balance was really important with your clay game. I wondered about transitioning from clay to hard courts, what the challenges have been?



SERENA WILLIAMS: Well, actually, it's a lot easier, the transition, because the hard courts have gotten so slow since when I started playing.

They were a lot faster. And now it's just so many more balls come back, and it's just almost basically playing on a fast clay court. I think the transition is a lot easier than it used to be.


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Old 09-12-2013, 11:52 PM   #40
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Default Re: Pat Cash : Are Rafael Nadal Nadal and Novak Djokovic boring?

IMO both eras are entertaining. Past eras were defined by more of a baseline/net approach combination. Today it's mostly baseline but there's still some room for aggression. Points are longer, but not every point is long. Some are free points, even against the GOAT returners of today. Some end quickly. There's usually a tense crescendo where one player is winning the point but needs a few strokes to finish, or possibly nets a ball to blunder from a completely winning position. It really draws out the tension.
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Old 09-12-2013, 11:56 PM   #41
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Default Re: Pat Cash : Are Rafael Nadal Nadal and Novak Djokovic boring?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roland Garros View Post
Faster Courts = Serve Bots/Ball Bashers triumph.

Raonic completes the career grand slam
BS. Servebots/ball bashers have never dominated Grand Slams. Talent trumps power.
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Old 09-13-2013, 12:03 AM   #42
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Default Re: Pat Cash : Are Rafael Nadal Nadal and Novak Djokovic boring?

No these players are not more complete. If they were, they'd have great volleying abilities and a bit of variety to boot.

We need USO to go back to 2004 surface, AO to revert to Rebound Ace and Wimbledon, well the last two years haven't been so bad but it'd still be ideally faster. Slow down the clay, bring back carpet.
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Faster Courts = Serve Bots/Ball Bashers triumph.

Raonic completes the career grand slam
Tory-style hyperbole that. Raonic sucks on low bouncing surfaces and you and I know that.

More variety on tour allows talented shotmakers to triumph instead of just baseline warriors who can outlast from the back of the court and have more fitness than the shotmaker who is taking more risks and running less.
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Old 09-13-2013, 12:29 AM   #43
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Default Re: Pat Cash : Are Rafael Nadal Nadal and Novak Djokovic boring?

The endless argument of court speed... it's so tired.

Look. If you guys want faster courts, you need to go back to wooden rackets. You can't have NASA racket tech and faster courts. The game would be destroyed. No serve would be returnable and the game would break down.

Courts have slowed down as racket tech has advanced. And it was necessary to maintain the balance between serve and return. It's not a damn conspiracy. You don't like the evolution of the game. Stop watching it. Play re-runs of Borg vs Conners and live in 1979.

For all the belly aching, if you look at the serve and return numbers today, they match very closely to the numbers from 20 years ago. The best returners in the game are winning 30% of return games on grass, 35% on hard courts and 40% on clay. Same as 20 years ago. Points have probably gotten a bit longer, but again things change. Deal with it and move on people.
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Old 09-13-2013, 12:30 AM   #44
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Default Re: Pat Cash : Are Rafael Nadal Nadal and Novak Djokovic boring?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ahadabans View Post
The endless argument of court speed... it's so tired.

Look. If you guys want faster courts, you need to go back to wooden rackets. You can't have NASA racket tech and faster courts. The game would be destroyed. No serve would be returnable and the game would break down.

Courts have slowed down as racket tech has advanced. And it was necessary to maintain the balance between serve and return. It's not a damn conspiracy. You don't like the evolution of the game. Stop watching it. Play re-runs of Borg vs Conners and live in 1979.

For all the belly aching, if you look at the serve and return numbers today, they match very closely to the numbers from 20 years ago. The best returners in the game are winning 30% of return games on grass, 35% on hard courts and 40% on clay. Same as 20 years ago. Points have probably gotten a bit longer, but again things change. Deal with it and move on people.
The technology wasn't a lot different in 2003, yet the surfaces were a lot quicker. Where were the servebots then????
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Old 09-13-2013, 12:34 AM   #45
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Default Re: Pat Cash : Are Rafael Nadal Nadal and Novak Djokovic boring?

i like pat as a player, but he is a big attention whore lately tbh
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