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Old 11-08-2011, 07:44 PM   #31
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Default Re: What are your thoughts on abortion?

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Originally Posted by Sunset of Age View Post
Such happens, yes. But the opposite occurs just the same (and even quite more often I think): MEN not wanting the kid (or rather, the responsibility of becoming a dad) and 'suddenly' running away, as soon as their GF becomes pregnant.

Again, a tragic situation for all involved.
Agreed
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Old 11-08-2011, 07:56 PM   #32
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Default Re: What are your thoughts on abortion?

What I think is interesting is the relationship between abortion and crime rates: When the famous Roe vs. Wade case finally made abortion legal in the US, the crime rates 20 years later started dropping. It is easy to see why: In a situation where abortion is done, the possible child would not have had a very good future ahead and would likely have turned to crime.
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Old 11-08-2011, 09:06 PM   #33
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Default Re: What are your thoughts on abortion?

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Originally Posted by Grassquet View Post
Abortion is fine. Pro-life people are weird.
+1

I doubt I'll truly know my own feelings on abortion until I find myself pregnant one day, but I wouldn't dream of trying to stop another woman.
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Old 11-08-2011, 09:19 PM   #34
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Default Re: What are your thoughts on abortion?

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Originally Posted by NadalMyHero View Post
its the most disguisting and the most disgraceful thing anyone can EVER do, if you dont want to have a baby use a condom or jus dont have sex at all, its simple ppl
Or take the other route like me. I got a vasectomy right after I turned 18, which was the minimum age that any of the doctors would do one (even with parental permission) or I'd have gotten one sooner. And even then, it was a hassle to get one of them to agree. That's another thing that needs changed.
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Old 11-08-2011, 09:32 PM   #35
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Default Re: What are your thoughts on abortion?

Abortion should be safe, legal, and rare. It should be extremely easy to access so that people can get them very, very early in the pregnancy, and schools should educate people so that they know how to practice safer sex.
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Old 11-08-2011, 10:36 PM   #36
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Default Re: What are your thoughts on abortion?

I love abortions.
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Old 11-08-2011, 10:43 PM   #37
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Default Re: What are your thoughts on abortion?

^^ Agreed on most accounts, Verd - as you know as being a fellow biologist I would.
Except for...

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Originally Posted by Verd View Post
3. As a person who cares about facts, I find absolutely ridiculous the claim that women use abortion as a contraceptive method. My most militantly pro-choice friends are precisely the people who actually use birth control and minimize the chance that they would ever need to consider abortion as an option.
Sad as it is, I have actually known a woman who did exactly that. Refused to take any contraceptives as she claimed that "artificial hormones would do damage to her health" (yes, don't tell me, it's ). And of course, her equally silly husby claimed that he was allergic to latex, i.e. condoms. Nice excuse for not having to use 'em, eh.
She had three abortions in a row. I kid you not.

I couldn't help myself and told her what I thought about that. Needless to say, I never saw her again. Perhaps better that way.
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Old 11-08-2011, 10:55 PM   #38
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Default Re: What are your thoughts on abortion?

Condoms are for losers. You might as well just jerk-off with a rubber glove.
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Old 11-08-2011, 11:37 PM   #39
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Default Re: What are your thoughts on abortion?

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Originally Posted by Sunset of Age View Post
^^ Agreed on most accounts, Verd - as you know as being a fellow biologist I would.
Except for...



Sad as it is, I have actually known a woman who did exactly that. Refused to take any contraceptives as she claimed that "artificial hormones would do damage to her health" (yes, don't tell me, it's ). And of course, her equally silly husby claimed that he was allergic to latex, i.e. condoms. Nice excuse for not having to use 'em, eh.
She had three abortions in a row. I kid you not.

I couldn't help myself and told her what I thought about that. Needless to say, I never saw her again. Perhaps better that way.
That is one heck of a story. I hope such couples are rare
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Old 11-08-2011, 11:48 PM   #40
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Default Re: What are your thoughts on abortion?

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That is one heck of a story. I hope such couples are rare
So do I.
The two were into some kind of ultra-alternative veganist cult, wherein about everything "non-natural", be it food, medicine or whatever, was regarded as 'unhealthy'.

There was no sensible talking to them possible, no explaining that 'artificial' and 'natural' progesterone are the same biochemical, let alone explain that having an abortion - a genuine operation, involving narcotics, hormones and whatnot (depending on the duration of the pregnancy of course) - isn't actually a 'natural', harmless process either.
I can only hope they have gotten back to their senses by now.
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Old 11-09-2011, 12:02 AM   #41
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Default Re: What are your thoughts on abortion?

I am against it as long as the child does not pose a health risk to the mother. But I don't feel like discussing this here.
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Old 11-09-2011, 01:18 AM   #42
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Default Re: What are your thoughts on abortion?

Abortion should be legal all around the world. A woman should be free to choose to dispose of unwanted luggage, so to speak. Biologically and genetically, a fetus is not a human and does, therefore, not deserve human rights. Attaching moral and ethical values to every action is the cancer of our society. We should be more open minded and not burden females with unwanted burdens, should they choose not to have a child. Choosing to have an abortion is a choice that is to be celebrated, not shunned.
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Old 11-09-2011, 02:43 AM   #43
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Default Re: What are your thoughts on abortion?

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Originally Posted by NadalMyHero View Post
its the most disguisting and the most disgraceful thing anyone can EVER do, if you dont want to have a baby use a condom or jus dont have sex at all, its simple ppl
Agreed 100%

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Originally Posted by Sunset of Age View Post
Lots of folks posting an opinion on a matter on which they have obviously no clue.

Just one thing to think about: do you guys honestly think that there is ONE woman in the entire world who thinks, "oh lookies, I'm pregnant and I don't want the kid, let's just hopp over to the doc this afternoon and get rid of it"?

In a massive majority of cases, it's a complete tragedy for all involved. There are plenty of situations where and when a woman gets pregnant by 'accident' (whatever that may be) and just cannot have a baby due to her personal circumstances.
Minimalizing abortion starts with proper education on all matters re: sex and anticonceptives to kids at a young age. It's no coincidence that the occurency of (legal or illegal) abortions is a lot, LOT higher in "prude" countries like the US (where there still seem to be a lot of areas where the naive and irrealistic concept of 'no sex till marriage' is taught ), compared to most countries in Europe where we think it's just a matter of proper sex education to youngsters in order to AVOID future abortions as much as possible.

Like I said, a tragedy indeed.
Most cases of abortion are due to the child being inconvenient for the woman and or other people associated with her. The cases of abortion due to fetal illness/defect, life of the mother being endangered, or **** are proportionately very rare.

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Originally Posted by Lopez View Post
What I think is interesting is the relationship between abortion and crime rates: When the famous Roe vs. Wade case finally made abortion legal in the US, the crime rates 20 years later started dropping. It is easy to see why: In a situation where abortion is done, the possible child would not have had a very good future ahead and would likely have turned to crime.
Gypsies in Eastern Europe and African Americans in the US are disproportionately involved in crime in those areas of the world. Does this mean we should go back to the tried-and-true eugenicist values of sterilizing these groups? Your post has no logic (not surprising given your standing on evolution), as it preemptively seeks to punish potential offenders (who are about as innocent of any wrongdoing as any human being can be) by killing them.

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Originally Posted by Topspindoctor View Post
Abortion should be legal all around the world. A woman should be free to choose to dispose of unwanted luggage, so to speak. Biologically and genetically, a fetus is not a human and does, therefore, not deserve human rights. Attaching moral and ethical values to every action is the cancer of our society. We should be more open minded and not burden females with unwanted burdens, should they choose not to have a child. Choosing to have an abortion is a choice that is to be celebrated, not shunned.
Filthy. Nothing to celebrate about murder.

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Originally Posted by Verd View Post
Lovely comments in this thread.

1. As a biologist, I consider the idea that a zygote, blastula, or early-stage embryo is equivalent to a human life to be a totally laughable concept, on par with the idea of Santa Claus being real or the earth being flat or a man murdering millions of babies every time he masturbates. If you want to believe that a hollow bubble of thirty-two cells or something that still has gills and yet no brain wave activity somehow takes precedence over the wishes of the woman whose body it inhabits, you are not even worth trying to reason with.

2. As a person who cares about numbers, I find it ridiculous the way partial-birth abortions are brought up by anti-choice advocates as a scare tactic, when the absolute FACT is that only a fraction of a percentage point of abortions are late-term/partial-birth.

3. As a person who cares about facts, I find absolutely ridiculous the claim that women use abortion as a contraceptive method. My most militantly pro-choice friends are precisely the people who actually use birth control and minimize the chance that they would ever need to consider abortion as an option.

3a. As a person with women in my life, I know for a fact that women can still get pregnant despite the precautions of using the pill + condoms. Blaming women for being irresponsible is ridiculous and offensive unless you think that only the celibate are blameless.

3b. P.S. Several of the militantly pro-choice women I've known in my life have had abortions. Despite them being pro-choice to the extreme, they tell me that it was still by far the hardest decision they ever made. Stop perpetuating the myth that women saunter into clinics, whistle while they whip their feet up into the stirrups, and the go home and celebrate with a pre-chilled bottle of champers.

4. As a man, it's not my business what a woman chooses to do with her body, and it's my obligation to tell my fellow men to butt out.
1.) What a load of BS. You're a half-ass biologist if you can come up with this. It is precisely biology that tells us that a zygote (and blastula, embryo, fetus, etc.) generated by the union of human gametes is human. When two cats mate and their gametes unite, what we have - biologically speaking, is feline life. When two frogs undergo amplexus and the frog sperm fertilizes the frog eggs we get frog life.

Biologically speaking, life begins at fertilization. At the moment the nuclei fuse, the now fertilized egg ceases to behave like an integral cell of a multicellular organism (as it once was) and begins to take quite a different path. This new life is genetically distinct from both parents.

Having clarified that a zygote (and embryo, fetus, etc.) is the beginning of life, it is not difficult to infer that a life form belongs to the same species as the gametes from which it arose. Human gametes give rise to human life.

So your biological "expertise" is crap, hate to say it.

2.) Partial birth abortions have zero justification. At late term, if the mother's heath is endangered it is just as easy to induce labor or perform a C-section as to dismember a mature fetus in the womb or remove the body (keeping the head in the uterus) and suck out the brains with a vacuum. Partial birth abortions are always done because the mother want's to get rid of the fetus and never because of "her health."

3.) It's only normal that it was a hard decision because most people don't like murdering others, even if it helps them get ahead. Unless they are psychopaths, which most feminists fortunately are not.

4.) Who cares who you are? It's like saying that I as a man have no say in women serial killers because "I don't understand what women go through." BS, murder is murder. End of discussion.
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Old 11-09-2011, 03:02 AM   #44
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Default Re: What are your thoughts on abortion?

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Filthy. Nothing to celebrate about murder.
Murder is when one puts a knife through your ribs or puts a few bullets into your skull just for fun. There is no murder involved when you're getting rid of unwanted genetic tissue, which is what fetus is. The need to attach political correctness, religious concepts and ethics to trivial things like abortion is disgusting. The females of today need not be burdened by unwanted children, because the technology allows us to relieve them of their mistakes. We should celebrate the fact the abortions are possible in today's era and give stupid young girls who made a mistake another chance to not ruin their life and career.

Abortion is a gift, not a curse. I wish more girls learned this.
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Old 11-09-2011, 03:20 AM   #45
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Default Re: What are your thoughts on abortion?

Her body, her choice. It is that simple.
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