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Old 06-22-2013, 10:10 AM   #1
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Default The Top 5 vs Top 10 players in 2013

Interesting stat going around twitter about record of the current top 5 against top 10 competition this year:

Djokovic: 7-3 (losses to Nadal, Berdych and Delpo)
Murray: 4-3 (losses to Djokovic, Delpo and Berdych)
Federer: 1-5 (losses to Murray, Berdych, Nadal x2, Tsonga)
Ferrer: 1-6 (losses to Nadal x4, Murray, Djokovic)
Nadal: 12-1 (loss to Djokovic)

Last edited by Ash86 : 06-22-2013 at 10:13 AM.
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Old 06-22-2013, 10:14 AM   #2
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Default Re: The Top 5 vs Top 10 players in 2013

And... what? Nadal should be given title already then?
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Old 06-22-2013, 10:16 AM   #3
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Default Re: The Top 5 vs Top 10 players in 2013

Ferrer
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Old 06-22-2013, 10:16 AM   #4
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Default Re: The Top 5 vs Top 10 players in 2013

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Old 06-22-2013, 10:17 AM   #5
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Default Re: The Top 5 vs Top 10 players in 2013

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And... what? Nadal should be given title already then?
Ummmm no. I don't see Nadal as the favourite for Wimbledon actually. It's just interesting to see what the level of the players this year has been- Fed had only beaten Tsonga - lost to every other top 10 player. That's telling. Of course Nadal's record is good as he's only played one tournament off clay but he did beat 3 top 10 players then too (Berdych, Fed, Delpo).

Also interesting that Ferrer has only lost to members of "Big 4" - he's very consistent these days vs Tsonga, Berdych etc. though I'm not sure he's met them much this year.

Nadal won't keep up that record on HCs but it's not irrelevant to gauge the current level of the top players based on these stats...
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Old 06-22-2013, 10:22 AM   #6
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Default Re: The Top 5 vs Top 10 players in 2013

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Ummmm no. I don't see Nadal as the favourite for Wimbledon actually. It's just interesting to see what the level of the players this year has been- Fed had only beaten Tsonga - lost to every other top 10 player. That's telling. Of course Nadal's record is good as he's only played one tournament off clay but he did beat 3 top 10 players then too (Berdych, Fed, Delpo).

Also interesting that Ferrer has only lost to members of "Big 4" - he's very consistent these days vs Tsonga, Berdych etc. though I'm not sure he's met them much this year.

Nadal won't keep up that record on HCs but it's not irrelevant to gauge the current level of the top players based on these stats...
Yes, it is. Wawrinka is 5-7, while Ferrer is (according to you) 1-6. Yet clearly Ferrer > Wawrinka.
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Old 06-22-2013, 10:29 AM   #7
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Default Re: The Top 5 vs Top 10 players in 2013

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Yes, it is. Wawrinka is 5-7, while Ferrer is (according to you) 1-6. Yet clearly Ferrer > Wawrinka.
Not when it comes to how much of a threat he is to the top 4. Wawrinka has shown this year he has it within him to beat the big guys - came close to beating Djokovic, 5th setter in DC etc. His performance v top 10 is why he's having such a great year. Ferrer on the other hand has picked up his points due to his kind draws - not facing as many top 10 players and losing to them when he has faced them...
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Old 06-22-2013, 10:43 AM   #8
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Default Re: The Top 5 vs Top 10 players in 2013

Given that nadal played all but 1 tournaments on clay this year and only faced a tired Del Potro and an injured Federer in the lone HC tournament he played I'm suprised it isn't 13-0 this year.

P.S.: I see he also beat Berdych. But he is useless against Dull as we know.
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Old 06-22-2013, 10:45 AM   #9
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Default Re: The Top 5 vs Top 10 players in 2013

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Not when it comes to how much of a threat he is to the top 4. Wawrinka has shown this year he has it within him to beat the big guys - came close to beating Djokovic, 5th setter in DC etc. His performance v top 10 is why he's having such a great year. Ferrer on the other hand has picked up his points due to his kind draws - not facing as many top 10 players and losing to them when he has faced them...
Oh what a load of crap

Since the beginning of 2012 Ferrer only lost 2 times to players from the current top ten outside the big 4, both of those times to Wawrinka. That's 2 losses in 18 months. I'm sorry but you are completely misreading the numbers.
He might be less of a threat to the top 4 than guys like Berdych, Tsonga and JMDP, but this particular stat has absolutely nothing to do with that. He lost 6 matches to the 3 best players in the world right now, and all 6 were on the opponent's best surface. It's all about who you face. Ferrer was good enough to work his way through players inferior to him (Tsonga at RG included) most of the times to actually earn the right to face the big ones.
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Old 06-22-2013, 10:49 AM   #10
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Default Re: The Top 5 vs Top 10 players in 2013

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Oh what a load of crap

Since the beginning of 2012 Ferrer only lost 2 times to players from the current top ten outside the big 4, both of those times to Wawrinka. That's 2 losses in 18 months. I'm sorry but you are completely misreading the numbers.
He might be less of a threat to the top 4 than guys like Berdych, Tsonga and JMDP, but this particular stat has absolutely nothing to do with that. He lost 6 matches to the 3 best players in the world right now, and all 6 were on the opponent's best surface. It's all about who you face. Ferrer was good enough to work his way through players inferior to him (Tsonga at RG included) most of the times to actually earn the right to face the big ones.
Again, I said he's less of a threat to the top 4 NOT the top 8. I know his record vs Delpo, Berdych etc. has been good. But then again it's interesting that this year he hasn't faced them - he only faced Tsonga on clay, by far Tsonga's worst surface. Ferrer's level this year has been lower but due to draws or early losses by others he's not faced top 10 players. I mean - he got to a slam semi and slam final by beating ONE top 10 player!! There's some luck involved there.
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Old 06-22-2013, 10:54 AM   #11
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Default Re: The Top 5 vs Top 10 players in 2013

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Again, I said he's less of a threat to the top 4 NOT the top 8. I know his record vs Delpo, Berdych etc. has been good. But then again it's interesting that this year he hasn't faced them - he only faced Tsonga on clay, by far Tsonga's worst surface. Ferrer's level this year has been lower but due to draws or early losses by others he's not faced top 10 players. I mean - he got to a slam semi and slam final by beating ONE top 10 player!! There's some luck involved there.
You can argue about luck all day long for all I care. He is clearly and comfortably among the 5 best players of the year. Tsonga supposedly had his chance at a GS final, but got schooled. No need to talk about Berdych and Delpo, who have been pretty much just sitting on a bench compared to the damage that David has done this year. The "top 10 wins" stat is irrelevant and misleading.
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Old 06-22-2013, 11:38 AM   #12
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Default Re: The Top 5 vs Top 10 players in 2013

Unsurprising stats, especially in Ferrer's case.

Nole's loss to Berdych was silly and should have been avoided.
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Old 06-22-2013, 11:40 AM   #13
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Default Re: The Top 5 vs Top 10 players in 2013

Nadal has played the most so he's had the most top 10 players to play. And to his credit he's done great.
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Old 06-22-2013, 01:01 PM   #14
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Default Re: The Top 5 vs Top 10 players in 2013

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Nadal has played the most so he's had the most top 10 players to play. And to his credit he's done great.
Yes he did but he played one tournament outside of clay which inflates his stats. Full season stats will be more fair as usual.
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Old 06-22-2013, 01:47 PM   #15
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Default Re: The Top 5 vs Top 10 players in 2013

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Again, I said he's less of a threat to the top 4 NOT the top 8. I know his record vs Delpo, Berdych etc. has been good. But then again it's interesting that this year he hasn't faced them - he only faced Tsonga on clay, by far Tsonga's worst surface. Ferrer's level this year has been lower but due to draws or early losses by others he's not faced top 10 players. I mean - he got to a slam semi and slam final by beating ONE top 10 player!! There's some luck involved there.
Getting to your first Slam final without dropping a set is definitely not "lower level". It will probably remain the best Slam performance of his career.

And his draw wasn't weaker than some of the Big 4 got on their way to the final. Usually 4th seed would get 2 top 10 guys before final, so just a single upset of one of them will make it similar to what Ferrer got.
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