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Old 06-07-2013, 11:09 PM   #61
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Default Re: 3 year old explains why he doesn't want to eat meat

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Originally Posted by Har-Tru View Post
As to the matter at hand: there are many definitions of morality, but whatever definition of morality you choose, it has to do with maximising well-being and minimising suffering.
That's completely incorrect. What you are describing is utilitarianism, which is only one among a variety of moral philosophies.

As to the video at hand, I do think it is blatantly staged and I also find it slightly unfair to present it as if the kid just happened to have a major and super-coherent epiphany AND that happened to be while his mother was casually filming him. I call bullshit on this one.

As far as vegetarianism is concerned, I am slightly ambivalent about it. On the one hand, I am all for improving the conditions of farm animals and usually can't stomach the videos which show some of the more gruesome techniques or meat farming. On the other hand, humans evolved eating meat so I can't possibly imagine how eating meat might be bad for you per se. Of course you can, just like with anything, overdo it, but meat in moderate quantities is something that I can't quite imagine living without.
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Old 06-07-2013, 11:18 PM   #62
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Default Re: 3 year old explains why he doesn't want to eat meat

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Originally Posted by MichaelKrep View Post
That's completely incorrect. What you are describing is utilitarianism, which is only one among a variety of moral philosophies.

As to the video at hand, I do think it is blatantly staged and I also find it slightly unfair to present it as if the kid just happened to have a major and super-coherent epiphany AND that happened to be while his mother was casually filming him. I call bullshit on this one.

As far as vegetarianism is concerned, I am slightly ambivalent about it. On the one hand, I am all for improving the conditions of farm animals and usually can't stomach the videos which show some of the more gruesome techniques or meat farming. On the other hand, humans evolved eating meat so I can't possibly imagine how eating meat might be bad for you per se. Of course you can, just like with anything, overdo it, but meat in moderate quantities is something that I can't quite imagine living without.
What I am describing is exactly what I said. If a theory of morality is not concerned with well-being (be it through pure utilitarian principles, through social contracts, through deontological rules, etc.), then calling it a theory of morality is a travesty.
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Armstrong says in-competition testing will never catch anyone, only out-of-competition testing and the blood passport can.

Tennis has no blood passport system, and does basically no out of competition testing.

The methods and drugs used by Armstrong in 1999 would work in tennis right now, with zero chance of being caught (not slightly surprising to anyone familiar with the topic, btw).
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Old 06-07-2013, 11:32 PM   #63
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Default Re: 3 year old explains why he doesn't want to eat meat

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Originally Posted by Har-Tru View Post
What I am describing is exactly what I said. If a theory of morality is not concerned with well-being (be it through pure utilitarian principles, through social contracts, through deontological rules, etc.), then calling it a theory of morality is a travesty.
You will forgive me for quoting Wikipedia, but this is indeed the widely accepted definition of the term:
"Utilitarianism is a theory in normative ethics holding that the proper course of action is the one that maximizes utility, specifically defined as maximizing happiness and reducing suffering."

Let's see what it says about morality:
"Morality is the differentiation of intentions, decisions, and actions between those that are "good" (or right) and those that are "bad" (or wrong)."

You will notice that this definition, which is also uncontroversial and not in debate, does not say anything about happiness, harm, or suffering, which is just one set of criteria according to which actions may be judged.

Therefore, sir, you are blatantly wrong and are merely presenting an assertion as fact. May I also add that utilitarianism, which you are clearly espousing here, is a severely discredited notion and has hardly been put forward as the definitive source of morality since the middle of the 19th century. Congratulations, your argument is only 150 years out of date.
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Old 06-07-2013, 11:38 PM   #64
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Default Re: 3 year old explains why he doesn't want to eat meat

I was a vegetarian from around 7-9 years old after I understood piglets were being castrated without anesthetics. This was after seeing a documentary made hidden-camera style at TV. I still try to avoid young animals, like piglets or calf but I eat meat. I avoid halal like the plague. I kind of believe in the cliche that we are all born good and that something of that youthful innocence/good dies when we get older.

All that said, growing up near the ocean fish is food to me and not meat. And yeah, what a coincidence the camera was running. But I sensed the mother was touched either way.
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Old 06-07-2013, 11:39 PM   #65
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Default Re: 3 year old explains why he doesn't want to eat meat

I'm vegan
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Old 06-07-2013, 11:41 PM   #66
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Default Re: 3 year old explains why he doesn't want to eat meat

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Originally Posted by Har-Tru View Post
If a theory of morality is not concerned with well-being (be it through pure utilitarian principles, through social contracts, through deontological rules, etc.), then calling it a theory of morality is a travesty.
This is a non-sensical statement. If it is concerned with maximising well-being then it is by definition utilitarian. The other two options are at best made redundant or at worst excluded.
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Old 06-08-2013, 12:03 AM   #67
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Default Re: 3 year old explains why he doesn't want to eat meat

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Originally Posted by buddyholly View Post
I guess you have no logical response, then.

You and topspin appear to have been discussing the pros and cons of eating babies. I do not know why you presumed I would want to be part of that discussion.

The simple fact is that topspin threw out the bait, hoping to catch a gullible living being. You grabbed that bait and ran with it. Now you can't get off the hook.
You seem to equal can with should. One doesn't follow from the other, if you have taken just one class in philosophy I'm sure you know that. I'm not a taliban by any means, but if we are going to eat meat then we should keep the animals as stress-free and as healthy as possible. If for no other reason than because it's decent
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Old 06-08-2013, 12:28 AM   #68
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Default Re: 3 year old explains why he doesn't want to eat meat

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Animals eat other animals (that's eating meet).

Why can't we do he same?

It's perfectly normal.
Animals eat animals as a means to survival.

Humans have the ability to survive without meat. Which is why I believe it's cruel.

This is my belief. I have no reason to censor my views just because it offends people. If you think eating meat is ok, then fine. But what I don't like is people who are unwilling to hear the facts. If people say "Oh, I don't want to hear about how cows are treated when they are slaughtered or whatever because it makes me feel bad when I eat beef"...well then something is obviously wrong. Be informed...don't hide from the facts.
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Nadal of course. He and Djokovic are by far the most likeable members in top 4.

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As a knowledgable tennis fan (unlike some people here), I can tell you exactly that. There are tennis players who have problems with playing indoor tennis because of the different lights, different sounds etc. compared to outdoors and Nadal is obvioulsy one of those players.
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Old 06-08-2013, 12:30 AM   #69
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Default Re: 3 year old explains why he doesn't want to eat meat

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I was a vegetarian from around 7-9 years old after I understood piglets were being castrated without anesthetics. This was after seeing a documentary made hidden-camera style at TV. I still try to avoid young animals, like piglets or calf but I eat meat. I avoid halal like the plague. I kind of believe in the cliche that we are all born good and that something of that youthful innocence/good dies when we get older.

All that said, growing up near the ocean fish is food to me and not meat. And yeah, what a coincidence the camera was running. But I sensed the mother was touched either way.
Just curious, why do you avoid halal? My Muslim friend told me that animals slaughtered with the halal methods feel less pain or something..is that not true?
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Nadal of course. He and Djokovic are by far the most likeable members in top 4.

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As a knowledgable tennis fan (unlike some people here), I can tell you exactly that. There are tennis players who have problems with playing indoor tennis because of the different lights, different sounds etc. compared to outdoors and Nadal is obvioulsy one of those players.
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Old 06-08-2013, 12:44 AM   #70
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Default Re: 3 year old explains why he doesn't want to eat meat

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As you might imagine, I don't think the culinary preferences of human beings should take preference over the life and death of an animal such as a pig.
I know you don't. But I think they do. So you go your way and I'll go mine.
I am using my imagination here, but I think animals like cattle and pigs and sheep have been bred to be what they are. I doubt they could fend for themselves anymore. So what would we do with them? Let them go extinct?
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Old 06-08-2013, 12:51 AM   #71
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Default Re: 3 year old explains why he doesn't want to eat meat

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Originally Posted by cruor View Post
You seem to equal can with should. One doesn't follow from the other, if you have taken just one class in philosophy I'm sure you know that. I'm not a taliban by any means, but if we are going to eat meat then we should keep the animals as stress-free and as healthy as possible. If for no other reason than because it's decent
I don't know what you are talking about. Neither word appears in the quote you used.
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Old 06-08-2013, 12:53 AM   #72
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Default Re: 3 year old explains why he doesn't want to eat meat

It does where you agree with the quote that pigs should be killed/eaten because they are chock-full with protein, though. My apologizes if I quoted the wrong post.
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Old 06-08-2013, 12:57 AM   #73
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Default Re: 3 year old explains why he doesn't want to eat meat

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Just curious, why do you avoid halal? My Muslim friend told me that animals slaughtered with the halal methods feel less pain or something..is that not true?
This is one of the most persistent myths about halal, they don't. I trust the veterinarians on this, it takes minutes for them to bleed to death and they are twisted upside down in a mechanical barrel-contraption. Where I come from we had to fight to the skin of our teeth to keep our animal laws intact come EU entry. Halal slaughter is forbidden without anesthetics here which makes it kind of fake-halal, and a great market for re-packaged EU meat.
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Old 06-08-2013, 01:20 AM   #74
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Default Re: 3 year old explains why he doesn't want to eat meat

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Originally Posted by GOATsol View Post
Animals eat animals as a means to survival.

Humans have the ability to survive without meat. Which is why I believe it's cruel.

This is my belief. I have no reason to censor my views just because it offends people. If you think eating meat is ok, then fine. But what I don't like is people who are unwilling to hear the facts. If people say "Oh, I don't want to hear about how cows are treated when they are slaughtered or whatever because it makes me feel bad when I eat beef"...well then something is obviously wrong. Be informed...don't hide from the facts.
You're hilarious really. You talk about that being your belief, but if I state my belief, that it's that eating meat is fine, you bad-rep calling me a "Mug". Hypocrisy at it's finest. I never said all that crap about how cows are treated nor I hide from facts either.

Also, there are thousands of things we can live without and we still use them.

And don't get all defensive, nobody censored you or was offended but your statement
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Old 06-08-2013, 01:58 AM   #75
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Default Re: 3 year old explains why he doesn't want to eat meat



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