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Old 06-07-2013, 08:02 PM   #46
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Default Re: 3 year old explains why he doesn't want to eat meat

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Originally Posted by Har-Tru View Post
I'd like to start saying something about the way vegetarians and vegetarianism are perceived and treated in Western societies. So far in this thread, the only vegetarian who posted declared to respect whatever decision anybody else takes and whatever they decide to eat.

Interestingly, even before she made these remarks, in the first six posts of the thread, vegetarians had already been defined as stupid, thinking they are superior, purer and more moral than meat eaters, unhealthy, an anomaly and weak, while vegetarianism was defined as a machination.

I rest my case.

As to the matter at hand: there are many definitions of morality, but whatever definition of morality you choose, it has to do with maximising well-being and minimising suffering. It is obvious that, just as homo sapiens can experience pain and suffering, other animal species can too. If we admit it is wrong to cause a human being to suffer, there is no reason not to admit that it is wrong to cause another conscious living being to suffer as well. Limiting our moral duties to those within our own species is a form of discrimination, no different than litiming our moral duties to those within our own race or to those within our own religion.

And we all know that, really. Anyone who says there is nothing wrong with torturing a small kitten to death will be qualified as a sociopath. And yet, every day millions of animals live and die in the most abhorrent conditions, going through unspeakable pains and not knowing what it is to see the light of the sun until the moment they are taken to the slaughterhouse.

We do not need meat to survive. A vegetarian diet has long been proved to be at least as healthy as a low-meat diet, and healthier than the standard Western diet, rich in red meat.

None of us can fulfill all their moral duties, but we can do what we can.



As opposed to you, the epitome of class and eloquence.

Based on the evidence contained in dozens of scientific articles, he World Health Organisation has long included the vegetarian diet in their list of healthy, recommendable diets.

Being healthy without eating meat is actually not that hard. Even vegans, those who refrain from all animal products completely, can do things like becoming the first person to win six World Championships of the hardest physical test in the world..



As a matter of fact, most of the world vegetarians live in third world countries.

Meat-eating is a luxury of the first world. Meat is a costly, inefficient way of producing nutrients. Meat itself is rich in protein, but the loss of calories that result from feeding grains to animals instead of directly to humans represents the annual calory needs of more than 3.5 billion people (source: UN Environmental Program).



This is the "because we can" argument. It has been used before, many times. It was used, for instance, by the conquistadors who looted, murdered and plundered all over the Americas, wiping out entire civilisations and killing tens of millions of people, "because they could".

I'm not sure you'll pay attention to this, but cattle are far from being brainless. In fact, we are discovering they are more intelligent and sensitive than we previously thought.
Very good post right up til the bolded last paragraph. You go off the point and offer a straw to anyone who seeks for anything to discredit your message. If you're vague you'll often end up getting dragged into a place where focus is on something pretty loose where it's easy to get lost in semantics.
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Old 06-07-2013, 08:18 PM   #47
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Default Re: 3 year old explains why he doesn't want to eat meat

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Then don't. But don't use your own beliefs to dictate to others.
when did i ever did that?
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Old 06-07-2013, 08:40 PM   #48
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Default Re: 3 year old explains why he doesn't want to eat meat

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I think eating meat is extremely cruel.
Animals eat other animals (that's eating meet).

Why can't we do he same?

It's perfectly normal.
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Old 06-07-2013, 09:43 PM   #49
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Default Re: 3 year old explains why he doesn't want to eat meat

I doubt a hungry lion or bear is going to consider morals if it spots a small child playing alone in the grass.
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Old 06-07-2013, 10:14 PM   #50
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Default Re: 3 year old explains why he doesn't want to eat meat

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Humans > animals
Really? Have you ever asked the animals their opinion on this issue?
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Old 06-07-2013, 10:16 PM   #51
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Default Re: 3 year old explains why he doesn't want to eat meat

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Originally Posted by BauerAlmeida View Post
Animals eat other animals (that's eating meet).

Why can't we do he same?

It's perfectly normal.
That's fine but we humans claim to have risen above many of our 'animal instincts'
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Old 06-07-2013, 10:26 PM   #52
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Default Re: 3 year old explains why he doesn't want to eat meat

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Really? Have you ever asked the animals their opinion on this issue?
i thought about this

"Humans think they are smarter than dolphins because we build cars and buildings and start wars etc., and all that dolphins do is swim in the water, eat fish and play around. Dolphins believe that they are smarter for exactly the same reasons."

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Old 06-07-2013, 10:30 PM   #53
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Default Re: 3 year old explains why he doesn't want to eat meat

Vegeterians wants our kids to be skinny and without muscles? Fuck off!!
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Old 06-07-2013, 11:01 PM   #54
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Default Re: 3 year old explains why he doesn't want to eat meat

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But y should t hurt them ever, ESP not for food purposes
I know it is not in your character, but the above, if it meant to say, "but you should never hurt them, ever, especially not for food" is written as a directive to not kill or eat animals.

Maybe it is just a grammatical point.
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Old 06-07-2013, 11:03 PM   #55
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Default Re: 3 year old explains why he doesn't want to eat meat

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Really? Have you ever asked the animals their opinion on this issue?
No.

And that is a good definition of why humans>animals.
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Old 06-07-2013, 11:06 PM   #56
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Default Re: 3 year old explains why he doesn't want to eat meat

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i thought about this

"Humans think they are smarter than dolphins because we build cars and buildings and start wars etc., and all that dolphins do is swim in the water, eat fish and play around. Dolphins believe that they are smarter for exactly the same reasons."

You are not seriously saying that you know what dolphins think, are you?

If dolphins are so smart, why do they still meat meat?
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Old 06-07-2013, 11:07 PM   #57
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Default Re: 3 year old explains why he doesn't want to eat meat

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Originally Posted by buddyholly View Post
I know it is not in your character, but the above, if it meant to say, "but you should never hurt them, ever, especially not for food" is written as a directive to not kill or eat animals.

Maybe it is just a grammatical point.
100% grammatical point.

like i said, i dont care if my bf, kids or sibling will eat meat, i never say anything, i never comment on their choice, when i do BBQ with friends and someone ask me to bring meat or something i will.

two Separate things in my life.

no harm done, i guess i wasnt Clear enough
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Old 06-07-2013, 11:49 PM   #58
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Default Re: 3 year old explains why he doesn't want to eat meat

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Originally Posted by Nidhogg View Post
Very good post right up til the bolded last paragraph. You go off the point and offer a straw to anyone who seeks for anything to discredit your message. If you're vague you'll often end up getting dragged into a place where focus is on something pretty loose where it's easy to get lost in semantics.
Another very easy way of getting dragged into that place is by having someone quote your message and focusing on a specific point nobody has addressed before.

But I'm still not sure what's wrong with that last paragraph. If anything, it is Topspindoctor who goes off the point, I'm merely addressing his post. I might be missing something.

I know what your point is and I appreciate your remarks, but have some trust, I've been having these debates for a while and know to keep the discussion on topic.
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Armstrong says in-competition testing will never catch anyone, only out-of-competition testing and the blood passport can.

Tennis has no blood passport system, and does basically no out of competition testing.

The methods and drugs used by Armstrong in 1999 would work in tennis right now, with zero chance of being caught (not slightly surprising to anyone familiar with the topic, btw).
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Old 06-07-2013, 11:54 PM   #59
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Default Re: 3 year old explains why he doesn't want to eat meat

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Originally Posted by BauerAlmeida View Post
Animals eat other animals (that's eating meet).

Why can't we do he same?

It's perfectly normal.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pirata. View Post
I doubt a hungry lion or bear is going to consider morals if it spots a small child playing alone in the grass.
You are basically saying humans have the same abilities for reflection, empathy and reasoning than lions and other animals do.

A lion eats a child because it is following its instincts and it doesn't know any better.

We humans should know better. We are rational animals capable of analysing the implications of our actions, and we should do precisely that.
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Originally Posted by philosophicalarf View Post
Armstrong says in-competition testing will never catch anyone, only out-of-competition testing and the blood passport can.

Tennis has no blood passport system, and does basically no out of competition testing.

The methods and drugs used by Armstrong in 1999 would work in tennis right now, with zero chance of being caught (not slightly surprising to anyone familiar with the topic, btw).
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Old 06-08-2013, 12:03 AM   #60
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Default Re: 3 year old explains why he doesn't want to eat meat

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Originally Posted by buddyholly View Post
I strive to meet my preferences too. Bacon, being one of them.
As you might imagine, I don't think the culinary preferences of human beings should take preference over the life and death of an animal such as a pig.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by philosophicalarf View Post
Armstrong says in-competition testing will never catch anyone, only out-of-competition testing and the blood passport can.

Tennis has no blood passport system, and does basically no out of competition testing.

The methods and drugs used by Armstrong in 1999 would work in tennis right now, with zero chance of being caught (not slightly surprising to anyone familiar with the topic, btw).
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