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Old 01-28-2006, 09:13 PM   #511
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Default Re: PAW ATP Managers Thread

Guys... I have re-phrased the tie break rules. Any comments?

Quote:
NEW: Tie break rules were introduced from Australian Open 2006 onwards.
In case several players have the same number of points, the following rules will be used to determine their ranking:
1. The greater number of correct picks.
If there is still a tie then:
2. The greater points of a single pick.
If there is still a tie then the greater second-best pick, and so on.
No pick will be considered better than 0 pts.
3. If there is still a tie then players will stay tied.
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Old 01-28-2006, 09:20 PM   #512
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Default Re: PAW ATP Managers Thread

Fellow managers next week... please add a link to the commitment thread for February tournaments...
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Old 01-28-2006, 09:22 PM   #513
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Default Re: PAW ATP Managers Thread

Thanks a lot nitsansh
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Old 01-28-2006, 09:45 PM   #514
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Default Re: PAW ATP Managers Thread

It seems there is a confusion among managers about the deadlines for commitments...

I use the deadline as midnight local time on the day before the start of main draw, IE January 29th for next week.
I saw that other use 24 hours before the start of main draw, which IMO is a problematic deadline because the order of play is normally not available 24 hours in advance, so players who want to commit on the day before the start of the main draw don't know whether the deadline is allready passed...
I think we should determine a general rule on this matter and instruct all managers to use the same deadline.
IMO The deadline should be a fixed date and time (whatever date and time we agree on) and not ambiguos time expression...
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Semifinal: 2004 - Houston, Casablanca, Nottingham, Stuttgart, Cincinnati

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Old 01-28-2006, 09:54 PM   #515
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Default Re: PAW ATP Managers Thread

Also, it seems there is some confusion on the number of wild cards, and when should wild cards be accepted...
This is related to the commitment deadlines of course...
The policy I am using is that WC are given to players who failed to make a commitment until the deadline or wish to change their tournament after that... if you give WC to players who asked for them while the commitment list was still open, that would fill the quota by players who IMO don't deserve them and might be at the expense of the real wild cards...
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Old 01-30-2006, 06:15 AM   #516
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Default Re: PAW ATP Managers Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by robuś
Jan 30 Zagreb (CRO) nitsansh
Jan 30 Vina del Mar (CHI) NyGeL
Jan 30 Delray Beach (USA) LaTenista

Feb 13 Buenos Aires (ARG)
Feb 13 Marseille (FRA)
Feb 13 San Jose (USA)

Feb 20 Rotterdam (NET)
Feb 20 Memphis (USA)
Feb 20 Costa Do Sauipe (BRA)

Feb 27 Dubai (UAE)
Feb 27 Acapulsco (MEX)
Feb 27 Las Vegas (USA) LaTenista

May 29 Paris - French Open (FRA) kfh_9118
I would manage Acapulco, on condition that you drop the S...
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Old 01-30-2006, 12:06 PM   #517
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Default Re: PAW ATP Managers Thread

Jan 30 Zagreb (CRO) nitsansh
Jan 30 Vina del Mar (CHI) NyGeL
Jan 30 Delray Beach (USA) LaTenista

Feb 13 Buenos Aires (ARG)
Feb 13 Marseille (FRA) -SaFiinsBabY-
Feb 13 San Jose (USA)

Feb 20 Rotterdam (NET)
Feb 20 Memphis (USA)
Feb 20 Costa Do Sauipe (BRA)

Feb 27 Dubai (UAE)
Feb 27 Acapulsco (MEX) nitsansh
Feb 27 Las Vegas (USA) LaTenista

May 29 Paris - French Open (FRA) kfh_9118
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Old 01-30-2006, 10:04 PM   #518
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Default Re: PAW ATP Managers Thread

How to deal with the mistake in the scoring pts that occured in Vina del Mar?

The problem:
The manager in charge there has mis-calculated most of the 1st round scoring pts. Apparently, he didn't do the [SQRT] part of the formula, and as a result the scores came out too lopsided.
By the time the mistake was found, all but one of the 1st day matches have allready finished or started. It seems that none of the players noticed the irregularity of the scores.

Possible solutions:
1. Leave all the 1st round scores as they were. Calculate the scores for the rest of the tournament in the right manner.
2. Correct all the scores, including the matches allready played.

Which one do you think will be a better solution?

How could we prevent such mistakes in the future?
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Old 01-30-2006, 10:25 PM   #519
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Default Re: PAW ATP Managers Thread

I had no idea wtf was SQRT... = V¯... so sorry


well... anyway, I think that 1st round PAW's should stay as they are...
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Old 01-30-2006, 11:41 PM   #520
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Default Re: PAW ATP Managers Thread

I also think that solution 1 will be more fair to the players, since that's the scoring pts they knew of when they selected their picks.
We can't change the scores for only the matches not played yet because many players won't notice the change. If we decide to change, we should change them all.

That's my opinion, but others might dissagree.
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Semifinal: 2004 - Houston, Casablanca, Nottingham, Stuttgart, Cincinnati
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Old 01-30-2006, 11:51 PM   #521
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Default Re: PAW ATP Managers Thread

NyGel, don't feel too sorry about it... human beings are vulnerable to errors... it was our fault that we took it for granted that everyone understand (SQRT) is Square Root...

Anyway, there's no point to cry on the spilled milk... we should clean the mess and move on...

I suggest that you don't do the standing after day 1 and don't change the scoring points, unless there will be a decision to do so...
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Old 01-31-2006, 12:01 AM   #522
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Default Re: PAW ATP Managers Thread

I been thinking about and I think that we should keep PAW choices but with the correct scores. For example, there are some scores that are hughly wrong like Marcaccio - Horna (112-1, now 31-3) or Friedl - Berlocq (251-1, now 50-2 )

That's what I think, but you are the experts here. Sorry for my mistake.
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PAW Results 2010/2009/2008/2007/2006/2005:
Winner: / Stuttgart / Viña, Miami, Umag / Stuttgart / Viña / Davis Cup /
Final: / / Paris TMS / Sauipe, B.Aires, Monaco, Umag / Acapulco / Paris TMS / Tokyo
SF: / / Estoril, Shangai / / / / Stuttgart, Palermo
QF: Brisbane/ Umag, USOpen / / Australia, Nottingham, Olympics, Bangkok / Australia, Sauipe / / Kitzbuhel, Beijing

PAW Rank: 14

FITD Champ: Queens 2010 / Miami, Newport & Stuttgart 2009 / Hamburg & Kitzbuhel 2008
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Old 01-31-2006, 01:13 AM   #523
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Default Re: PAW ATP Managers Thread

PAW round 1 in Vina del Mar should be void.

-People made selections on the premise of wrong scores.
-the scores for the matches with qualifiers were not updated until very late, and were wrong as well.

This created an unfair playing ground for all PAW players - except those who bothered to calculate the scores themselves (I highly doubt anyone did this).

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Old 01-31-2006, 02:22 AM   #524
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Default Re: PAW ATP Managers Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by nitsansh
How to deal with the mistake in the scoring pts that occured in Vina del Mar?

The problem:
The manager in charge there has mis-calculated most of the 1st round scoring pts. Apparently, he didn't do the [SQRT] part of the formula, and as a result the scores came out too lopsided.
By the time the mistake was found, all but one of the 1st day matches have allready finished or started. It seems that none of the players noticed the irregularity of the scores.

Possible solutions:
1. Leave all the 1st round scores as they were. Calculate the scores for the rest of the tournament in the right manner.
2. Correct all the scores, including the matches allready played.

Which one do you think will be a better solution?

How could we prevent such mistakes in the future?
I would say the better solution is to start from the fresh again, ie. all the picks made in day 1 will be disregarded and players will start picking from PAW1 again. I hope they still have enough matches to pick 13 matches, if not, maybe just for this tournament to make the maximum picks to be 10, or even 8.

To prevent such mistakes in the future, some that I can think of right now:
* for new managers, please always ask if not sure of something.
* for senior managers, it's probably better to always double check the scoring points posted by new manager, you know just for the first few rounds, to make sure they're accurate.

I am actually surprised that no one pick this up at all until after day 1, considering such a big gap in the scoring points.

Don't feel too bad about yourself, NyGeL, everyone does mistake, and we can't thank you enough for volunteering to be a PAW manager
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Old 01-31-2006, 06:08 AM   #525
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Default Re: PAW ATP Managers Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by NyGeL
I been thinking about and I think that we should keep PAW choices but with the correct scores. For example, there are some scores that are hughly wrong like Marcaccio - Horna (112-1, now 31-3) or Friedl - Berlocq (251-1, now 50-2 )

That's what I think, but you are the experts here. Sorry for my mistake.
We have no expertize on this matter, since a problem like this never occured (or at least I don't know of it). There were occasions that scores for one or few matches were wrong, and most of the mistakes were found and corrected before the matches took place. I don't think there was ever a case that the scores of the whole first round were mistaken.

Now I see there is yet another suggestion... to cancel all the matches on day 1... according to my calculation there were 8 matches played on Monday, and if there were players who picked most of them they could be in trouble if they won't realize in time that those matches were cancelled. If someone won't have any valid picks in the 1st round, he would have 15 marches left to choose 13 picks from. So he might be at a significant disadvantage in this tournament.

My position is that since the whole 1st round was mis-calculated, any decision should be applied to the whole 1st round, and not make a distinction between matches played and not played.

So there are 3 options:
1. Leave the scores as they were.
2. Correct all the scores.
3. Cancel all the picks.

I am still in favour of the 1st option, since the players who posted picks did that on the basis of those scores, and no one seems to have noticed that there is something wrong until most of the matches on day 1 have allready started.

As to the future... I suggest that a senior manager will be designated to look after rookie managers in their first tournament, and in particular re-check the scoring points.
I guess that if I took a glance at the scores I would be suspicious immediately that there's a mistake there...
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Winner: 2006 - Acapulco, Portschach, 2005 - Marseille, Valencia, Bastad, Paris Bercy, 2004 - Kitzbuhel
Runner-up: 2005 - Doha, Estoril, 2004 - Indian Wells, Hamburg, Halle, Paris Bercy
Semifinal: 2004 - Houston, Casablanca, Nottingham, Stuttgart, Cincinnati
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