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Old 05-06-2013, 11:51 PM   #151
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Default Re: John Tomic allegedly arrested for breaking nose on Bernie's HP

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Originally Posted by retister View Post
First and foremost, he should be jailed for this.
If found guilty, which it appears he is - Agreed
- and then banned from tennis for LIFE ( not just for a little while ).
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Old 05-06-2013, 11:56 PM   #152
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Default Re: John Tomic allegedly arrested for breaking nose on Bernie's HP

It's hard to believe the ATP won't take some action against Tomic's dad after this. The problem is, they may also take action against Tomic as well.
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Old 05-06-2013, 11:58 PM   #153
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Default Re: John Tomic allegedly arrested for breaking nose on Bernie's HP

Ladies and gentlemen, I provide a thorough, intricate answer, in hope for a rational, comprehensive debate and he provides me with five sentences in response. Doesn't this just show his complete lack of understanding about what psychology entails? Doesn't this just show he is incapable of having an elaborate discussion? He is answering my answers with questions, so he can slowly detach himself from the argument. I don't think highly of you, WMF, but even I expected a more comprehensive response. You're clearly aware that everything I have been discussing to you is foreign, hence your vague responses.


Quote:
Look at the avatar on the left of every post you make. That is how we all know you are incapable of being objective and unbiased.
Oh my. I am discussing something psychological here. This applies to everyone. I can't believe you've used my avatar as your ... "evidence" ... of me having an inability to be objective and unbiased. This is not just about Tomic. This theory can be applied to every person on this very planet, including yourself, believe it or not. This is much more serious than whether or not I am a personal fan of Bernard Tomic. Just... *facepalm*

Quote:
What makes Tomic's problems so complex and intricate?
We all have a sense of intricacy. Childhood and an upbringing is a developmental stage that consists of countless variables, complexities and even irregularities. Tomic's childhood was obviously different than most others, since his younger years centred around hectic training, constant, excessive travelling and unparalleled expectations. Of course his problems are complex. And not just him, but MANY of us. Again, you've further demonstrates your inept understanding of the subject.

Quote:
Remind me again, can you show me the post where I said that Tomic's behaviour was definitely in no way, shape or form as a result of the parenting he enjoyed growing up as a child? Thanks.
WHY are you bringing this up? This whole discussion (if you can call it that) began why you ignorantly and ineptly said...

Bernard is his own man. Stop giving him excuses.

I am trying my best to educate you that it's not that simple. There are many more intricate variables at play. Hence my reply:

You clearly have no understanding of psychology and how peer pressure can indirectly change and influence one's behaviour throughout their lifetime. Of course the Nard is no saint here; he's done plenty wrong and can make his own decisions, but to ignorantly come out and say "Tomic, change things up right now" is naive thinking.



Just stop please. You've already disappointed me enough with your vague, illiterate response.
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Old 05-06-2013, 11:58 PM   #154
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Default Re: John Tomic allegedly arrested for breaking nose on Bernie's HP

I hope this doesn't sound like a stupid question but as for the argument if Bernard should be penalized according to the ATP rules, the fact that it happened neither within the tournament venue nor during an official match/practice session can be taken into account? Also I think one can argue the incident didn't directly harm any of 'a tournament, sponsor, player, official or the ATP'. (Regarding player and ATP, it's up for debate though.) Other than that, I fully understand ATP can ban his father from the tour to protect their goods (player), reputation, etc and to ensure a safe environment for others.

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Old 05-07-2013, 12:01 AM   #155
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Default Re: John Tomic allegedly arrested for breaking nose on Bernie's HP

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Originally Posted by HumanCondition View Post
Ladies and gentlemen, I provide a thorough, intricate answer, in hope for a rational, comprehensive debate and he provides me with five sentences in response. Doesn't this just show his complete lack of understanding about what psychology entails?
You want me to enter in a serious debate with someone who psycho-analyses an individual based off of the newspaper reports he reads? Give me a break.
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Old 05-07-2013, 12:07 AM   #156
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Default Re: John Tomic allegedly arrested for breaking nose on Bernie's HP

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Originally Posted by Wing Man Frank View Post
You are biased, incapable of being objective and clearly know zero on the subject matter at hand. Stop reading your pop psychology books and get out into the real world.

Problem with you "psychologists" (if you even are one) is that everything is an excuse or a justification.

Please explain in-depth how Tomic's behaviour both off and on court when his father is not around also happens to be John's fault.

Can't wait to hear this.
I think a key point here is that there is a significant difference between explaining behavior, and exonerating behavior. Ultimately all behavior can be explained, but this does not mean it should be accepted, in fact in some cases understanding gives all the more reason behavior should not be accepted.
If your child misbehaves and you determine you may have failed to educate them the consequences of wrong behavior you do not let the child escape punishment because you have an understanding. In fact in this case your understanding shows punishment is all the more essential.
It could also be argued that the most horrendous crimes can only be committed by those who are insane, however it could never be that therefore the most horrendous crimes should not be punished.

A factor in John Tomic acting the way he appears/is-alleged to have acted could very likely be that the impact of the circumstances that led to him being a refugee have mentally scarred him. Understanding this may be useful in judging that it may not be in his genes to act this way, but it does not give reason to excuse the behavior. Rather it may give reason to worry that in his case such extreme behavior may be expected again.

Understanding either of the Tomics' behavior does not automatically excuse the behavior. To suggest the impact of a parent on a child's behavior is limited to when the parent is in sight is something most would not agree with. However if you really mean to suggest that the behavior of Tomic cannot be excused, even his behavior has been affected by his father - I think many would agree with you.

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Old 05-07-2013, 12:14 AM   #157
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Default Re: John Tomic allegedly arrested for breaking nose on Bernie's HP

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Originally Posted by Wing Man Frank View Post
You want me to enter in a serious debate with someone who psycho-analyses an individual based off of the newspaper reports he reads? Give me a break.
Wow, and now you are answering with one inept, ignorant, completely amateurish sentence. You are the one who openly came out and said "stop giving him excuses". I explained to you that it's not that simple, since psychology and human understanding involves much more than that. You are the one who perpetuated this. I systematically broke your illiterate argument down. I answered all of your questions (which you deliberately neglected to expand upon) and made it clear that all my descriptions was merely a theory. Much to no surprise, you fail to engage in a proper debate by taking the easy way out because you know you have absolutely no clear understanding on what the subject entails. Either you are deliberately detaching yourself because you know you look like a fool or you have an inability to discuss things rationally.

Either way, you've just further added to your already laughable reputation here on MTF. I also think your chances of becoming a moderator are very slim, and thank God for that. Continue hovering the board, playing "forum police" and wasting your time.
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Old 05-07-2013, 12:16 AM   #158
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Default Re: John Tomic allegedly arrested for breaking nose on Bernie's HP

Would be a joke if they penalized Bernie for his father's idiot moves.
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Old 05-07-2013, 12:20 AM   #159
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Default Re: John Tomic allegedly arrested for breaking nose on Bernie's HP

Bernard is the male Pierce, Capriati, Dokic Someone please save him. No matter if he's a man, the fear of an abussive parent is something really powerful
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Old 05-07-2013, 12:24 AM   #160
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Default Re: John Tomic allegedly arrested for breaking nose on Bernie's HP

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Originally Posted by Wing Man Frank View Post
Yes, because everyone on here was looking to get into an existential debate on the merits of the Tomic's relationships.

You seem to have taken my comment completely out of context in order to suit your own biased agenda.

As I have said, your psycho-analysis is based entirely on your opinion and absolutely no on any facts.

You are wasting everyone's time.
At least you've accepted defeat. We've learned a few things today: 1) you have an inability to have a rational discussion when somebody systematically destroys your argument; 2) you have absolutely no understanding what the subject of psychology entails; 3) you make mindless posts that are factually incorrect; and 4) you've further proven that you are just another sheep of a poster, who is all talk but no do.

As I said, continue playing forum police whilst the logical and sensible posters on this site see you get humiliated.

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Old 05-07-2013, 12:28 AM   #161
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Default Re: John Tomic allegedly arrested for breaking nose on Bernie's HP

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Originally Posted by HumanCondition View Post
At least you've accepted defeat. We've learned a few things today: 1) you have an inability to have a rational discussion when somebody systematically destroys your argument; 2) you have absolutely no understanding what the subject of psychology entails; 3) you make mindless posts that are factually incorrect; and 4) you've further proven that you are just another sheep of a poster, who is all talk but no do.

As I said, continue playing forum police whilst the logical and sensible posters on this site see you get humiliated.
I love people like you. Because you read 'Psychology for Dummies' you think you can analyse everyone based on a few newspaper reports.

As we have seen so far in this thread, you are biased, have no objectivity, are incapable of coming to a logical and rational conclusion and use excuses for everyone and everything.

You will do well in your chosen profession that's for sure.
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Old 05-07-2013, 12:30 AM   #162
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Default Re: John Tomic allegedly arrested for breaking nose on Bernie's HP

This is the Croatian version of the Dokic family. Funny that they're also from Australia.

Seems like Balkanites + Australia =
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Old 05-07-2013, 12:33 AM   #163
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Default Re: John Tomic allegedly arrested for breaking nose on Bernie's HP

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Originally Posted by Wing Man Frank View Post

As we have seen so far in this thread, you are biased, have no objectivity, are incapable of coming to a logical and rational conclusion and use excuses for everyone and everything.
http://www.wikihow.com/Lose-an-Argument-Gracefully

This thread speaks for itself, pal. You can't change what's been said.
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Old 05-07-2013, 01:21 AM   #164
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Default Re: John Tomic allegedly arrested for breaking nose on Bernie's HP

This thread is about John Tomic's actions, yes stick to that topic. It's not about my grandad is bigger than your grandad.

John Tomic claims his headbutt was in self defence.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-05-0...ensive/4673348

Tomic's dad says headbutt was self-defence

The father of Australian tennis star Bernard Tomic has told a Spanish court he acted in self-defence when he headbutted his son's training partner and broke his nose.

John Tomic denied a charge of assault against Thomas Drouet in a Saturday afternoon brawl outside a hotel where players in the Madrid Masters were staying, his lawyer Carmen Dieguez told journalists at a Madrid court.

"I don't feel guilty. I did not do anything wrong," Tomic told reporters.

Tomic opted not to pay a fine and a second hearing to decide if he is guilty of assault will be held next Tuesday.

Ms Dieguez said tensions between Tomic and Drouet had been rising for several weeks prior to the brawl.

She says Tomic struck Drouet with his head because Drouet was holding his arms, and he had to protect himself from falling over.


PHOTO: John Tomic watches his son in the Australian Open last year. (File photo) (Getty Images: Ryan Pierse)
"There was some pushing and he acted in legitimate self-defence," Ms Dieguez said.

Drouet, who is from Monaco, appeared at the court house with a neck brace and white plaster over his nose.

"I feel bad for Bernard too, because the person who must be sad today is Bernard, with his father doing this again," he said.

"I wish him all the best. Really, Bernard is a nice guy. I wish him all the best and I will recover and see what happens."

Tomic, who is also his son's coach, was arrested several hours after the fight in the central avenue Paseo de la Castellana and released ahead of the hearing, police said.

If found guilty he could be sentenced to between three months and three years in prison.


'Very odd situation'

L'Equipe newspaper said Drouet sustained a broken nose, stitches to a cut above his eye and bruising to the back of his neck.

L'Equipe quoted Bernard Tomic as saying he had been with his physical trainer at the time of the incident and had seen or heard nothing.

"It's a very odd situation," he was quoted as saying by the paper.

"I wanted to talk to Thomas, but he was in hospital. I haven't seen my father since then."

Tennis Australia said in a statement yesterday that the allegations against John Tomic were "very concerning".

What's important for us at Tennis Australia is that this allegation is thrown toward John, his dad, and not to Bernard.
Todd Woodbridge

Former player Pat Cash, in Madrid for media commitments, said the Drouet incident and allegations of another involving Bernard have been the talk of the tournament.

"They're saying how they had an argument and Thomas was actually defending Bernard saying 'hey listen, give him a little break, he's quite good on clay'," Cash told Channel Nine this morning.

"They went into an argument, John was very negative and said 'hey, walk this way, come here' and that's when the incident happened.

"Of course there was some history before that - before they arrived in Madrid there was allegations that John had punched Bernard in the face on a practice court.

"Again, Thomas stood up for Bernard, and that's being investigated by the APT."

Cash says he hopes the brawl has a "rosy ending".

"If it shows that John is guilty I don't think he'll be seen on the tennis circuit anymore and in the end I think that might be a good thing for Bernard in his tennis career," he said.

"He would probably still have some input into Bernard's career behind the scenes, but I doubt very much whether he would be at any of the tournaments."

Bernard Tomic has made a poor start to this year's European clay court season and lost in straight sets to Czech veteran Radek Stepanek in the first round in Madrid.

Tomic, currently ranked 49th, last year created more headlines off the court than on it, including run-ins with police in his sports car and claims he was not trying hard enough.

The 20-year-old recently was recalled to Australia's Davis Cup team after captain Patrick Rafter disciplined him for a lack of professionalism following admissions that he gave less than full effort in matches at New York and Shanghai last year.

Tomic won both his singles matches and clinched victory for Australia in their Davis Cup Asia-Oceania Group One second-round tie against Uzbekistan last month.
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Old 05-07-2013, 02:36 AM   #165
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Default Re: John Tomic allegedly arrested for breaking nose on Bernie's HP

Figures that Tomic's father would get involved in something like this, I'm not terribly surprised. Hopefully this can finally get him away from tennis and his son's career. Really I feel like someone ought to have stepped in by now, you can't expect kids to handle crazy parents on their own.
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