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Old 05-06-2013, 01:41 AM   #121
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Default Re: Portugal Open Final : Wawrinka def. Ferrer 6-1 6-4

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Originally Posted by mark73 View Post
Again, according to your definition of best. Some people disagree on this topic of who is better because they use different definitions. The facts that matter depend on the definition you are using obviously.
Ferrer being a beacon of consistency is a myth, he has actually lost to players outside the top 8 more often than Del Potro in the past 12 months - a player people love to label as 'inconsistent'. 95% of players on tour would rather face Ferrer over JMDP on any given day, the % would be lower for Tsonga and Berdych but still higher than vs Ferrer - against Ferrer players won't be blown off the court and they will mostly depend on themselves to win.
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Old 05-06-2013, 01:44 AM   #122
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Default Re: Portugal Open Final : Wawrinka def. Ferrer 6-1 6-4

A Stan with confidence is a top 3 player
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Old 05-06-2013, 01:48 AM   #123
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Default Re: Portugal Open Final : Wawrinka def. Ferrer 6-1 6-4

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Old 05-06-2013, 01:51 AM   #124
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Default Re: Portugal Open Final : Wawrinka def. Ferrer 6-1 6-4

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Originally Posted by Mark Lenders View Post
Ferrer being a beacon of consistency is a myth, he has actually lost to players outside the top 8 more often than Del Potro in the past 12 months - a player people love to label as 'inconsistent'. 95% of players on tour would rather face Ferrer over JMDP on any given day, the % would be lower for Tsonga and Berdych but still higher than vs Ferrer - against Ferrer players won't be blown off the court and they will mostly depend on themselves to win.

My point was more philosophical. Having to do with how defintions precede the facts you use to determine the truth or falsehood of a statement. Our disagreement is probably not a real disagreement once you see that.
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Old 05-06-2013, 02:43 AM   #125
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Default Re: Portugal Open Final : Wawrinka def. Ferrer 6-1 6-4

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Cut the crap already. The only thing I am 'obsessed' about is unbiased and objective tennis analysis.

Let this sink in for a while: a person obsessed with unbiased and objective tennis analysis can only find flaws/faults in Ferrer? What does that say about Ferrer?
This is rich. "What does that say about Ferrer?"

Maybe the question you should be pondering is: "What does that say about me?"

Because a person that can 'only find flaws/faults' in one player out of the literally hundreds on tour is clearly unaquainted with the principles of being either 'unbiased' or 'objective'. Let that sink in for a while.
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Old 05-06-2013, 03:05 AM   #126
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Default Re: Portugal Open Final : Wawrinka def. Ferrer 6-1 6-4

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Expected.
worst top-4 player in tennis history.
Strong Era!

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Old 05-06-2013, 04:53 AM   #127
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Default Re: Portugal Open Final : Wawrinka def. Ferrer 6-1 6-4

Really chuffed for Stan, he simply outplayed Daveed. The full stretch BH volley at 4-4 40-40 in the 2nd set was the icing on the cake.

This title was long overdue. Next step is to carry this momentum through to RG/Rome.
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Old 05-06-2013, 05:03 AM   #128
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Default Re: Portugal Open Final : Wawrinka def. Ferrer 6-1 6-4

Stan
David
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Old 05-06-2013, 05:53 AM   #129
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Default Re: Portugal Open Final : Wawrinka def. Ferrer 6-1 6-4

Let's gooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo !
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He doesn't have a great FH, average at best. It's very inconsistent.
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Old 05-06-2013, 06:46 AM   #130
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Default Re: Portugal Open Final : Wawrinka def. Ferrer 6-1 6-4

Mugwrinka's only 4th title of his career considering his talent.

But whateves, still 3 more than the highly overrated Dimugtrov and Tomug combined.
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Old 05-06-2013, 08:09 AM   #131
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Default Re: Portugal Open Final : Wawrinka def. Ferrer 6-1 6-4

Good for the game
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Old 05-06-2013, 08:11 AM   #132
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Default Re: Portugal Open Final : Wawrinka def. Ferrer 6-1 6-4

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Expected.
worst top-4 player in tennis history.
Blake.
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Old 05-06-2013, 11:16 AM   #133
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Default Re: Portugal Open Final : Wawrinka def. Ferrer 6-1 6-4

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Originally Posted by Mark Lenders View Post
But Federer plays a high risk game, relying a lot on timing. He can have off days and his level fluctuates a lot, especially now in his old age.

With Ferrer, it's his different, his level barely fluctuates at all, he does the same thing all the time, repeats the same patterns over and over.
I'm equating Wawrinka to Federer, because like Federer, Wawrinka has the highest "peak" level, and relies on his shotmaking ability. If Wawrinka played at his peak all the time, he'd be ranked a lot higher than he is now, and he'd have a lot more than 4 titles.

So a lot of the time, Wawrinka's opponents, even if theoretically weaker than him, do have a say in the match. Ferrer might have had a say in this match if he had played at his best, not given Wawrinka a ton of free points, and put pressure on him. Perhaps not.

In any case my point is that this is not evident simply from the fact Wawrinka has a higher peak level. Think about those 5 matches on clay Ferrer won vs. Wawrinka. If Ferrer hadn't played well enough to win them, what do you think you would have said? "Ferrer had no say in the match anyway because Wawrinka is the better player at his best".

Quote:
With Ferrer, it's his different, his level barely fluctuates at all, he does the same thing all the time, repeats the same patterns over and over.
Ferrer has periods of good or bad form like all other players. And as especially as he gets older it will be harder to maintain his level for long periods of time.

Quote:
Yet he still runs away from them. Funny how he only accepted the wildcard into Estoril after del Potro withdrew, eh? He knows that the real top 8 are all better than him and have the match on their racket against him; beating them in a few occasions when they were off doesn't change that.
Or maybe he just didn't want to play for 4 weeks in a row.
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Old 05-06-2013, 12:11 PM   #134
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Default Re: Portugal Open Final : Wawrinka def. Ferrer 6-1 6-4

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Originally Posted by Mark Lenders View Post
Yet he still runs away from them. Funny how he only accepted the wildcard into Estoril after del Potro withdrew, eh? He knows that the real top 8 are all better than him and have the match on their racket against him; beating them in a few occasions when they were off doesn't change that.

I'm sure Ferrer knows his H2H with Delpo so why should he be afraid of him?
And besides, it's possible that he only was able to accept a WC after Delpo withdrew.
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Old 05-06-2013, 12:58 PM   #135
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Default Re: Portugal Open Final : Wawrinka def. Ferrer 6-1 6-4

My day couldn't have gone any better.
Haas, Stan winning the title, Kohli coming 2nd and Chelsea def. Man U.
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