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Old 04-27-2013, 08:10 PM   #196
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Default Re: Barcelona SF: Nadal roasts Raonic 6-4 6-0

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Originally Posted by Wing Man Frank View Post
Again, you are cherry-picking statistics in order to help your argument.
Showing you his record in slams and M1000s isn't cherry-picking. It's what his actual record is (which you asked for, I should add) and shows his clear improvement in those events over time.
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Old 04-27-2013, 08:11 PM   #197
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Default Re: Barcelona SF: Nadal roasts Raonic 6-4 6-0

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Originally Posted by MaratandMilos View Post
And he'll get better for having played those matches and gained that experience. He just has to apply the same level that he beat Murray at and challenged Federer into the slams.
It's not that simple though. The top guys are totally different beasts in slams. Beating Murray in a 500 is quite impressive but beating him in a slam is 1000 times harder. He's not called Slamray for nothing!
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Old 04-27-2013, 08:14 PM   #198
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Default Re: Barcelona SF: Nadal roasts Raonic 6-4 6-0

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Originally Posted by MaratandMilos View Post
Showing you his record in slams and M1000s isn't cherry-picking. It's what his actual record is (which you asked for, I should add) and shows his clear improvement in those events over time.
What improvement?

He hasn't beaten a single top player at any of these events.
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Old 04-27-2013, 08:15 PM   #199
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Default Re: Barcelona SF: Nadal roasts Raonic 6-4 6-0

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Originally Posted by Mark Lenders View Post
I disagree. He is now in that group of players who are inferior to the top 8 but above the rest of the field - along with Gasquet, Cilic, Tipsarevic, Nishikori, Almagro, etc... this is definitely better than he was 12 months ago.
That doesn't win you Slams or Master events Lenders.
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Old 04-27-2013, 08:19 PM   #200
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Default Re: Barcelona SF: Nadal roasts Raonic 6-4 6-0

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Originally Posted by Wing Man Frank View Post
That doesn't win you Slams or Master events Lenders.
Precisely. If he remains at that level forever, he won't win Slams or Masters or even strong 500 events; however he's the youngest player of the bunch along with Nishikori, with only two full years on tour, so he has time on his side to reach a higher level.

Whether that level will be enough to win anything big remains to be seen (or if he will even reach it), but putting his name in a list of possible future Slam winners is definitely not an unreasonable proposition. If you think it is though, who would you put in that group? Or do you believe no currently active player apart from Hewitt, Federer, Nadal, Djokovic, Del Potro and Murray will ever win a Slam?
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Old 04-27-2013, 08:20 PM   #201
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Default Re: Barcelona SF: Nadal roasts Raonic 6-4 6-0

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Originally Posted by MaratandMilos View Post
David Ferrer is 31 years old, has been on tour for a decade, has no real chance of improving, and has no weapons to use. Milos Raonic is 22, is in his 2nd full year on tour, has a major chance of improving significantly, and has major weapons. Great comparison there.
He is on his second full year on tour because he wasn't good enough to get onto the tour before that.

Stop using that as some sort of excuse.
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Old 04-27-2013, 08:22 PM   #202
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Default Re: Barcelona SF: Nadal roasts Raonic 6-4 6-0

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Originally Posted by Mark Lenders View Post
Precisely. If he remains at that level forever, he won't win Slams or Masters or even strong 500 events; however he's the youngest player of the bunch along with Nishikori, with only two full years on tour, so he has time on his side to reach a higher level.

Whether that level will be enough to win anything big remains to be seen (or if he will even reach it), but putting his name in a list of possible future Slam winners is definitely not an unreasonable proposition. If you think it is though, who would you put in that group? Or do you believe no currently active player apart from Hewitt, Federer, Nadal, Djokovic, Del Potro and Murray will ever win a Slam?
Who knows who will win a Slam once Djokovic and Murray are gone? There are no outstanding candidates.

Do you feel those that do win a Slam will have deserved it given it will take the best players retiring before they can?

As I said, Milos is improving, but only in terms of consistency. His results versus the best haven't improved and he is no bigger a threat today than he was a year ago.
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Old 04-27-2013, 08:23 PM   #203
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Default Re: Barcelona SF: Nadal roasts Raonic 6-4 6-0

Tennis has no future.
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Old 04-27-2013, 08:26 PM   #204
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Default Re: Barcelona SF: Nadal roasts Raonic 6-4 6-0

I think I've called out this troll's nonsense enough for one day. Even got him to admit that Milos has improved after his repeated denials to the contrary. I consider that a success in itself.

Good day, WMF. Until the next time you decide to troll a young, improving player with potential, then.
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Old 04-27-2013, 08:28 PM   #205
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Default Re: Barcelona SF: Nadal roasts Raonic 6-4 6-0

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Originally Posted by MaratandMilos View Post
I think I've called out this troll's nonsense enough for one day. Even got him to admit that Milos has improved after his repeated denials to the contrary. I consider that a success in itself.

Good day, WMF. Until the next time you decide to troll a young, improving player with potential, then.
I'd run away too if I were you.

Next question you'll have to answer is what players Milos has beaten at a Masters/Slam event that are ranked above him.

Should be an entertaining answer.
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Old 04-27-2013, 08:28 PM   #206
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Default Re: Barcelona SF: Nadal roasts Raonic 6-4 6-0

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Originally Posted by Wing Man Frank View Post
Who knows who will win a Slam once Djokovic and Murray are gone? There are no outstanding candidates.

Do you feel those that do win a Slam will have deserved it given it will take the best players retiring before they can?


As I said, Milos is improving, but only in terms of consistency. His results versus the best haven't improved and he is no bigger a threat today than he was a year ago.
Regardless of whether they are outstanding or not, someone will have to win those Slams - they will not be over without a winner.

And yes, I feel that they will deserve their Slams, yes. Just like Djokovic deserves to be #1 although odds are he'd never have sniffed it if he had had to compete with prime Federer. He's better than his current competition so he deserves to be #1 and win Slams, regardless of whether some past competition might have been of a higher level. Conversely, those future Slam winners will deserve their titles even if their level isn't as a high as that of the current ones.

You, tennis never stops. Someone must win the tournaments and occupy the top ranking spots even with the best are out. For instance, Nadal hadn't broken through yet in 2004 and Gaudio took advantage of that to win the FO - which was fully deserved and legitimate. What do you suggest, the tournament should have been cancelled instead?
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Last edited by Mark Lenders : 04-27-2013 at 08:41 PM.
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Old 04-27-2013, 08:38 PM   #207
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Default Re: Barcelona SF: Nadal roasts Raonic 6-4 6-0

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I'd run away too if I were you.
Seems like it is Lenders' turn to deal with your ridiculous troll job. I have full confidence in him.
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Old 04-27-2013, 08:40 PM   #208
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Default Re: Barcelona SF: Nadal roasts Raonic 6-4 6-0

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Seems like it is Lenders' turn to deal with your ridiculous troll job. I have full confidence in him.
Next question you'll have to answer is what players Milos has beaten at a Masters/Slam event that are ranked above him?
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Old 04-27-2013, 08:40 PM   #209
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Interesting to see the OP warm up to the use of the verb 'roast'...

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Old 04-27-2013, 08:43 PM   #210
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Default Re: Barcelona SF: Nadal roasts Raonic 6-4 6-0

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I'd run away too if I were you.

Next question you'll have to answer is what players Milos has beaten at a Masters/Slam event that are ranked above him.

Should be an entertaining answer.
He has beaten a few. Mardy Fish, Michael Llodra, Mikhail Youzhny, Marin Cilic, Richard Gasquet, Tomas Berdych.
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