Ask MTF Mods - Page 38 - MensTennisForums.com

MensTennisForums.com

MenstennisForums.com is the premier Men's Tennis forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.Please Register - It's Free!

Reply

Old 10-26-2013, 03:53 PM   #556
country flag Motoflou
Barkeep
 
Motoflou's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Age: 31
Posts: 1,369
Motoflou has a reputation beyond reputeMotoflou has a reputation beyond reputeMotoflou has a reputation beyond reputeMotoflou has a reputation beyond reputeMotoflou has a reputation beyond reputeMotoflou has a reputation beyond reputeMotoflou has a reputation beyond reputeMotoflou has a reputation beyond reputeMotoflou has a reputation beyond reputeMotoflou has a reputation beyond reputeMotoflou has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Ask MTF Mods

There's no point in starting a thread about it. The mods discussed your case, and the large majority decided not to support the appeal. Anyone who wanted to chime in had their chance. Everyone involved spoke their minds, and it was decided not to support. Your argument was considered, and it was discussed at length. But it isn't fair to expect the mods to get into specifics about who said what...
Motoflou is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 

Old 10-26-2013, 03:58 PM   #557
country flag Sham Kay
Lurrrkin'
 
Sham Kay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Age: 25
Posts: 11,321
Sham Kay has a reputation beyond reputeSham Kay has a reputation beyond reputeSham Kay has a reputation beyond reputeSham Kay has a reputation beyond reputeSham Kay has a reputation beyond reputeSham Kay has a reputation beyond reputeSham Kay has a reputation beyond reputeSham Kay has a reputation beyond reputeSham Kay has a reputation beyond reputeSham Kay has a reputation beyond reputeSham Kay has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Ask MTF Mods

Quote:
Originally Posted by motorhead View Post
how does the vote look like? the appeal mod opens a thread where he posts the 'infracted' user's reasoning and mods vote it or what? does the appeal Mod himself take part in the vote?

can I open a thread on appeals statistics?

who decides when the the vote lasted enough to close the case?
Yeah that's right, the appeal mod makes a summary with all the relevant details and whatever the member has presented to support their case. If the appeal mod finds sufficient evidence to support the appeal, then they will attempt to convince the moderators as to why they think the infraction should be reversed. At this point it is left to the moderators to give their views. The appeal mod takes no further part in the decision making, aside from continuing to discuss the infraction. If the appeal mod decides not to support the appeal, then it is instantly unsuccessful.

Nobody decides in particular, we give it a week in general, and if discussions and opinions have come to a halt at this point, the case is closed. But, common sense is used at all times.
Sham Kay is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2013, 04:09 PM   #558
country flag motorhead
Banned!
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 11,294
motorhead has a reputation beyond reputemotorhead has a reputation beyond reputemotorhead has a reputation beyond reputemotorhead has a reputation beyond reputemotorhead has a reputation beyond reputemotorhead has a reputation beyond reputemotorhead has a reputation beyond reputemotorhead has a reputation beyond reputemotorhead has a reputation beyond reputemotorhead has a reputation beyond reputemotorhead has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Ask MTF Mods

Quote:
Originally Posted by Motoflou View Post
There's no point in starting a thread about it.
There's no point in starting it or is it against the rules? And if yes what's the rule infringement in particular?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Motoflou View Post
But it isn't fair to expect the mods to get into specifics about who said what...
Who said mods should get into specifics on their decisions, a statistics thread on appeals is simply numbers of appeals forwarded and numbers of appeals approved.
doesn't look harmful nor disruptive to me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sham Kay View Post
If the appeal mod finds sufficient evidence to support the appeal, then they will attempt to convince the moderators as to why they think the infraction should be reversed.
They who? It looks as if the appeal Mod acts alone here from this description.
Why does the appeal Mod himself can't take part in the vote?
Given that the appeal Mod is sort of representing 'us' in the process, would it be more reasonable to directly copy-past our appeal request or at least make his summary available for us to read?

Last edited by motorhead : 10-26-2013 at 04:25 PM.
motorhead is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2013, 04:30 PM   #559
country flag Motoflou
Barkeep
 
Motoflou's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Age: 31
Posts: 1,369
Motoflou has a reputation beyond reputeMotoflou has a reputation beyond reputeMotoflou has a reputation beyond reputeMotoflou has a reputation beyond reputeMotoflou has a reputation beyond reputeMotoflou has a reputation beyond reputeMotoflou has a reputation beyond reputeMotoflou has a reputation beyond reputeMotoflou has a reputation beyond reputeMotoflou has a reputation beyond reputeMotoflou has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Ask MTF Mods

Quote:
Originally Posted by motorhead View Post
There's no point in starting it or is it against the rules? And if yes what's the rule infringement in particular?
It borders on backseat moderating, if you ask me. We have explained the appeals process very clearly to you here. I honestly can't understand how you are so upset about it. It's easy to understand, and in essence, the appeals mod DOES get a vote....his vote is whether to allow us to consider the appeal or not. Once he puts it through, it's up to the rest of us.

Quote:
Originally Posted by motorhead View Post
Given that the appeal Mod is sort of representing 'us' in the process, would it be more reasonable to directly copy-past our appeal request or at least make his summary available for us to read?
The appeal mod tells us exactly what the user says when he first asks to appeal. And if the appeal mod agrees, then he argues your case, and explains why he thinks we should support the appeal. But it isn't for the users to see what is happening behind the scenes. It isn't up to the user to judge if the appeal mod is doing his job well enough.

Honestly though, we can't sit here answering the same questions every day. It's a shame that you didn't win your appeal. But users should never hesitate to appeal if they think they've been unfairly punished.

Last edited by Motoflou : 10-26-2013 at 04:37 PM.
Motoflou is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2013, 04:38 PM   #560
country flag Sham Kay
Lurrrkin'
 
Sham Kay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Age: 25
Posts: 11,321
Sham Kay has a reputation beyond reputeSham Kay has a reputation beyond reputeSham Kay has a reputation beyond reputeSham Kay has a reputation beyond reputeSham Kay has a reputation beyond reputeSham Kay has a reputation beyond reputeSham Kay has a reputation beyond reputeSham Kay has a reputation beyond reputeSham Kay has a reputation beyond reputeSham Kay has a reputation beyond reputeSham Kay has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Ask MTF Mods

Quote:
Originally Posted by motorhead View Post
They who? It looks as if the appeal Mod acts alone here from this description.
Why does the appeal Mod himself can't take part in the vote?
By they, I mean he/she. The English language lacks a gender-neutral pronoun and I hate using "he" for everything. Just a habit.

Anyway, the appeal mod is the intermediary between the member and the moderators. He decides what can and can't be appealed, but his specific role is not to take part in the vote, but instead to create a valid case for the infraction to be overturned, should he deem it so. This is how the appeal mod role is defined on MTF, and he is chosen for this specific job. Moderators are to make the final decision on appeals.
Sham Kay is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2013, 04:46 PM   #561
country flag motorhead
Banned!
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 11,294
motorhead has a reputation beyond reputemotorhead has a reputation beyond reputemotorhead has a reputation beyond reputemotorhead has a reputation beyond reputemotorhead has a reputation beyond reputemotorhead has a reputation beyond reputemotorhead has a reputation beyond reputemotorhead has a reputation beyond reputemotorhead has a reputation beyond reputemotorhead has a reputation beyond reputemotorhead has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Ask MTF Mods

Quote:
Originally Posted by Motoflou View Post
It borders on backseat moderating
What does 'it borders on backseat moderating' means? Is it against the rules yes or not? You've to understand I now have to be very careful in every aspect of my posting in order to avoid further reds from Sonja

Quote:
Originally Posted by Motoflou View Post
But it isn't for the users to see what is happening behind the scenes. It isn't up to the user to judge if the appeal mod is doing his job well enough.
I'm not critizing the appeal job in my case, you keep on going on my personal case when I just want to know how the whole process works.
The fact that isn't for the users to see what is happening behind the scenes is pretty obvious.
So before even approving it, the appeal Mod starts a thread with the copy-past of a user's request even if he's later rejecting it without putting it up for vote?
Why does he have to then post a summary of the appeal if a copy-pasted request has already been posted when the appeal request is submitted?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Motoflou View Post
Honestly though, we can't sit here answering the same questions every day. It's a shame that you didn't win your appeal. But users should never hesitate to appeal if they think they've been unfairly punished. Just stick within the rules and you shouldn't have any problems at all
I don't think these specific questions have been posted before, besides the appeal process is subject to rules changes over the time so there's no harm in trying to understand how it works.

Last edited by motorhead : 10-26-2013 at 04:52 PM.
motorhead is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2013, 04:47 PM   #562
country flag Motoflou
Barkeep
 
Motoflou's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Age: 31
Posts: 1,369
Motoflou has a reputation beyond reputeMotoflou has a reputation beyond reputeMotoflou has a reputation beyond reputeMotoflou has a reputation beyond reputeMotoflou has a reputation beyond reputeMotoflou has a reputation beyond reputeMotoflou has a reputation beyond reputeMotoflou has a reputation beyond reputeMotoflou has a reputation beyond reputeMotoflou has a reputation beyond reputeMotoflou has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Ask MTF Mods

Quote:
Originally Posted by motorhead View Post
What does 'it borders on backseat moderating' means? Is it against the rules yes or not? You've to understand I now have to be very careful in every aspect of my posting in order to avoid further reds from Sonja
Yes, you would get an infraction. But you don't really have to be "very careful in every aspect," because honestly, no one is trying to give you a hard time. You just have to behave!

Quote:
Originally Posted by motorhead View Post
So before even approving it, the appeal Mod starts a thread with the copy-past of a user's request even if he's later rejecting it without putting it up for vote?
Yepyep, he starts a thread for the user's appeal request, and he explains the user's point of view and shows what the user has said about it, and then the appeal mod explains whether he does or does not support the appeal. So all the mods see the appeal request either way.

Last edited by Motoflou : 10-26-2013 at 04:53 PM.
Motoflou is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2013, 04:56 PM   #563
country flag motorhead
Banned!
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 11,294
motorhead has a reputation beyond reputemotorhead has a reputation beyond reputemotorhead has a reputation beyond reputemotorhead has a reputation beyond reputemotorhead has a reputation beyond reputemotorhead has a reputation beyond reputemotorhead has a reputation beyond reputemotorhead has a reputation beyond reputemotorhead has a reputation beyond reputemotorhead has a reputation beyond reputemotorhead has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Ask MTF Mods

Quote:
Originally Posted by Motoflou View Post
Yes, you would get an infraction. But you don't really have to be "very careful in every aspect," because honestly, no one is trying to give you a hard time. You just have to behave!
Rules interpretaions are very subjective, any mod could give infractions for pretty much every post if he/she intends to so yes I've to be very careful and I'd like not to waste further time with appeals. Please spare me the we are all equal talk, there are plenty of mods in here but I happen to get reds from one Mod too often to be a mere coincidence imho.
Does anyone have some sort of statistics on them cause by the look of it I get the impressions that appeal success rate has to be in the 0-5% range, 0 in my case.

Last edited by motorhead : 10-26-2013 at 05:02 PM.
motorhead is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2013, 04:59 PM   #564
country flag Sham Kay
Lurrrkin'
 
Sham Kay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Age: 25
Posts: 11,321
Sham Kay has a reputation beyond reputeSham Kay has a reputation beyond reputeSham Kay has a reputation beyond reputeSham Kay has a reputation beyond reputeSham Kay has a reputation beyond reputeSham Kay has a reputation beyond reputeSham Kay has a reputation beyond reputeSham Kay has a reputation beyond reputeSham Kay has a reputation beyond reputeSham Kay has a reputation beyond reputeSham Kay has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Ask MTF Mods

There's no official statistics, but the appeal success rate is above 0%, I can assure you of that.
Sham Kay is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2013, 05:03 PM   #565
country flag motorhead
Banned!
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 11,294
motorhead has a reputation beyond reputemotorhead has a reputation beyond reputemotorhead has a reputation beyond reputemotorhead has a reputation beyond reputemotorhead has a reputation beyond reputemotorhead has a reputation beyond reputemotorhead has a reputation beyond reputemotorhead has a reputation beyond reputemotorhead has a reputation beyond reputemotorhead has a reputation beyond reputemotorhead has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Ask MTF Mods

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sham Kay View Post
There's no official statistics, but the appeal success rate is above 0%, I can assure you of that.
0.1% too is above 0 for what that matters.
motorhead is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2013, 05:09 PM   #566
country flag Sonja1989
A happy person
 
Sonja1989's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Loveland <3
Age: 24
Posts: 44,453
Sonja1989 has a reputation beyond reputeSonja1989 has a reputation beyond reputeSonja1989 has a reputation beyond reputeSonja1989 has a reputation beyond reputeSonja1989 has a reputation beyond reputeSonja1989 has a reputation beyond reputeSonja1989 has a reputation beyond reputeSonja1989 has a reputation beyond reputeSonja1989 has a reputation beyond reputeSonja1989 has a reputation beyond reputeSonja1989 has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Ask MTF Mods

I tell you since viruzzz is the appeal moderator, 1/3 of appeals was successful.
__________________
Never ever give up
Sonja1989 is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2013, 05:18 PM   #567
country flag motorhead
Banned!
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 11,294
motorhead has a reputation beyond reputemotorhead has a reputation beyond reputemotorhead has a reputation beyond reputemotorhead has a reputation beyond reputemotorhead has a reputation beyond reputemotorhead has a reputation beyond reputemotorhead has a reputation beyond reputemotorhead has a reputation beyond reputemotorhead has a reputation beyond reputemotorhead has a reputation beyond reputemotorhead has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Ask MTF Mods

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonja1989 View Post
I tell you since viruzzz is the appeal moderator, 1/3 of appeals was successful.
Do you mean the appeal success has increased since the other guy left? do you have a file or u came up with this figure by your own conclusions?
motorhead is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2013, 05:37 PM   #568
country flag Sonja1989
A happy person
 
Sonja1989's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Loveland <3
Age: 24
Posts: 44,453
Sonja1989 has a reputation beyond reputeSonja1989 has a reputation beyond reputeSonja1989 has a reputation beyond reputeSonja1989 has a reputation beyond reputeSonja1989 has a reputation beyond reputeSonja1989 has a reputation beyond reputeSonja1989 has a reputation beyond reputeSonja1989 has a reputation beyond reputeSonja1989 has a reputation beyond reputeSonja1989 has a reputation beyond reputeSonja1989 has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Ask MTF Mods

Quote:
Originally Posted by motorhead View Post
Do you mean the appeal success has increased since the other guy left? do you have a file or u came up with this figure by your own conclusions?
No. I meant I was lazy to check all of appeals ever. So I looked only the new ones since viruzzz is the appeal moderator.
When Goldenoldie was the appeal moderator, he had a thread anyway: http://www.menstennisforums.com/showthread.php?t=270530
__________________
Never ever give up
Sonja1989 is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2013, 05:57 PM   #569
country flag motorhead
Banned!
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 11,294
motorhead has a reputation beyond reputemotorhead has a reputation beyond reputemotorhead has a reputation beyond reputemotorhead has a reputation beyond reputemotorhead has a reputation beyond reputemotorhead has a reputation beyond reputemotorhead has a reputation beyond reputemotorhead has a reputation beyond reputemotorhead has a reputation beyond reputemotorhead has a reputation beyond reputemotorhead has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Ask MTF Mods

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonja1989 View Post
this looks like a very good initiative, at least one can have an idea of what's happening.
too bad Motoflou would consider such thread against the rules now.
I find it quite hilarious that a long time former Mod had this good idea and it's now considered against the rules by a guy who's moderating the forum since a few weeks.
motorhead is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2013, 06:00 PM   #570
country flag Sonja1989
A happy person
 
Sonja1989's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Loveland <3
Age: 24
Posts: 44,453
Sonja1989 has a reputation beyond reputeSonja1989 has a reputation beyond reputeSonja1989 has a reputation beyond reputeSonja1989 has a reputation beyond reputeSonja1989 has a reputation beyond reputeSonja1989 has a reputation beyond reputeSonja1989 has a reputation beyond reputeSonja1989 has a reputation beyond reputeSonja1989 has a reputation beyond reputeSonja1989 has a reputation beyond reputeSonja1989 has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Ask MTF Mods

Quote:
Originally Posted by motorhead View Post
this looks like a very good initiative, at least one can have an idea of what's happening.
too bad Motoflou would consider such thread against the rules now.
I find it quite hilarious that a long time former Mod had this good idea and it's now considered against the rules by a guy who's moderating the forum since a few weeks.
No, he didn't mean that.

But viruzzz is the one who decices if he opens a thread or not with it.
The thread wouldn't be the same if anyone of you do that.
__________________
Never ever give up
Sonja1989 is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


Copyright (C) Verticalscope Inc
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
vBCredits v1.4 Copyright ©2007, PixelFX Studios