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Old 04-21-2013, 09:58 AM   #361
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Default Re: 2 explosions at Boston Marathon, UPDATE: at least 3 dead, 144 injured

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Originally Posted by atennisfan View Post
As meaningless as saying:
My point is that Catholics is the most retrograde and most dangerous religion on earth. I abhorre all religions, and indeed all ideologies based on dogma, but it seems clear to me we have reasons to be more concerned about some religions than about others.
Where are the Catholic suicide bombers? Where are the Catholic honour killings?

As much as I detest Catholicism (I was brought up Catholic), it is not even close to being as retrograde and primitive as Islam. Islam is now where Catholicism was in the 15th Century.

We rightly criticise the way Catholicism treats women, homosexuals and non-believers, but that is nothing compared to how Islam treats them.

Granted, that might have had more to do with the secularisation of Western societies pushing against the conservative efforts of the Catholic church, but that's the way it is.
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Originally Posted by philosophicalarf View Post
Armstrong says in-competition testing will never catch anyone, only out-of-competition testing and the blood passport can.

Tennis has no blood passport system, and does basically no out of competition testing.

The methods and drugs used by Armstrong in 1999 would work in tennis right now, with zero chance of being caught (not slightly surprising to anyone familiar with the topic, btw).
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Old 04-21-2013, 10:06 AM   #362
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Default Re: 2 explosions at Boston Marathon, UPDATE: at least 3 dead, 144 injured

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Originally Posted by Har-Tru View Post
How exactly did communists kill in the name of atheism? Communists killed in the name of... communism. An ideology based on a dogma that involved elements of anti-clericalism.
You may call it anti-clericalism, I call it atheism. The fact is, in early 20th-30th communists physically killed many priests and those members of churches who tried to stop them from destroying those churches. Many believers, not just christians but also muslims, were sent to GULAG just because they were believers. Later the terror was not that obvious. However, being a believer in God was a ground to expel from comsomol and thus any university, sometimes it was enough to have a person sent to psychiatric institution. Communism lead the war against religions in Soviet Union, those wars were in the name of atheism.
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Old 04-21-2013, 10:15 AM   #363
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Default Re: 2 explosions at Boston Marathon, UPDATE: at least 3 dead, 144 injured

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Originally Posted by abraxas21 View Post
Instead of contaminating the board here you might as well save the Islamophobia and racism for facebook wall messages.

i know there are many euro bigots who will (do?) give you plenty of "likes".
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He was only mocking your racism. So you might flag youself, to be fair.
MTF never ceases to amaze and appall me. My message, which abraxas quotes, has been deleted and I have received a warning for "discriminatory remarks - Racist comments are not acceptable on MTF". No doubt flagged by his royal waaahjesty abraxas himself.

Apparently... EDIT: My warning/infraction has been reversed.
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Originally Posted by philosophicalarf View Post
Armstrong says in-competition testing will never catch anyone, only out-of-competition testing and the blood passport can.

Tennis has no blood passport system, and does basically no out of competition testing.

The methods and drugs used by Armstrong in 1999 would work in tennis right now, with zero chance of being caught (not slightly surprising to anyone familiar with the topic, btw).

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Old 04-21-2013, 10:19 AM   #364
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Default Re: 2 explosions at Boston Marathon, UPDATE: at least 3 dead, 144 injured

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Originally Posted by gulzhan View Post
You may call it anti-clericalism, I call it atheism. The fact is, in early 20th-30th communists physically killed many priests and those members of churches who tried to stop them from destroying those churches. Many believers, not just christians but also muslims, were sent to GULAG just because they were believers. Later the terror was not that obvious. However, being a believer in God was a ground to expel from comsomol and thus any university, sometimes it was enough to have a person sent to psychiatric institution. Communism lead the war against religions in Soviet Union, those wars were in the name of atheism.
No they weren't. They were waged in the name of communism. They weren't waged in the name of "no God". It was the USSR, not the USAR.
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Originally Posted by philosophicalarf View Post
Armstrong says in-competition testing will never catch anyone, only out-of-competition testing and the blood passport can.

Tennis has no blood passport system, and does basically no out of competition testing.

The methods and drugs used by Armstrong in 1999 would work in tennis right now, with zero chance of being caught (not slightly surprising to anyone familiar with the topic, btw).
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Old 04-21-2013, 12:47 PM   #365
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Default Re: 2 explosions at Boston Marathon, UPDATE: at least 3 dead, 144 injured

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Originally Posted by Har-Tru View Post
Where are the Catholic suicide bombers? Where are the Catholic honour killings?

You never heard that priests and nuns directly and indirectly helped the killings of up to a million people in Rwanda?

Wanna try again another religion that is considered "peaceful" like Buddha?

You have heard that buddhist monks in Myanmar are inviolved in the killings of Rohingya muslims in Myanmar, right?

But maybe for you the lives of milion and thousands are less than the lives of three Bostonians?

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Originally Posted by Har-Tru View Post
As much as I detest Catholicism (I was brought up Catholic), it is not even close to being as retrograde and primitive as Islam. Islam is now where Catholicism was in the 15th Century.
This shows how ignorant you are about Islam. So the religion is defined by the actions of extremely few?

Using your logic, can I say that catholics is the religion that supported paedophilia?
(having learned cayholics myself, I know it's not true)

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Originally Posted by Har-Tru View Post
We rightly criticise the way Catholicism treats women, homosexuals and non-believers, but that is nothing compared to how Islam treats them.
Again, this shows your complete ignorance about the teachings of Islam.
If you say, some muslims treat badly women, nonbelievers etc., than it is correct.

There is absolutely a lot more validity in saying that all americans condone killing of innocent people (because US government killed innocent people, and the US government is democratically elected) than saying Islam condones killing of innocent people.

Also, you obviously do not realize that treatment of other religions in the world's largest muslim country is better than say, treatment of Islam in the world's largest christian country.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Har-Tru View Post
Granted, that might have had more to do with the secularisation of Western societies pushing against the conservative efforts of the Catholic church, but that's the way it is.
So you basically challenge your own argument and agree that it is the action of people, not the actual teaching itself.
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People need to wake up. Olderer is not winning anymore slams - neither is he going to become #1.

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Old 04-21-2013, 02:59 PM   #366
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Default Re: 2 explosions at Boston Marathon, UPDATE: at least 3 dead, 144 injured

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Originally Posted by Har-Tru View Post
MTF never ceases to amaze and appall me. My message, which abraxas quotes, has been deleted and I have received a warning for "discriminatory remarks - Racist comments are not acceptable on MTF". No doubt flagged by his royal waaahjesty abraxas himself.

Apparently open dialogue and any views that lie outside of the established political correctness are not allowed on Big Brother MTF.
:
I would like some moderator to come along and explain why religion and race are synonyms. Maybe explain at the same time why "whitey" is OK, but mention of any other colour is taboo.
Oh wait, what difference would it make? We first need to understand why a criticism of a religion is racist.

As I see it, the agenda now is for abraxas to spew all his racist views on the forum and any reply will result in censorship or banning. Soon he will be talking to himself. Oh wait..........

NT has been bowdlerised into such a parody of a discussion forum that I don't much care anymore, anyway. I knew from the start where this thread was going. But since I am proudly going after the Grand Slam of FITD I think I will have to withdraw from posting, at least until after RG. For now, I find it virtually impossible to know what can be safely said and what can not. After RG, I may have nothing to lose.
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Old 04-21-2013, 03:12 PM   #367
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Default Re: 2 explosions at Boston Marathon, UPDATE: at least 3 dead, 144 injured

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Originally Posted by atennisfan View Post
You never heard that priests and nuns directly and indirectly helped the killings of up to a million people in Rwanda?









.
Since both tribes are Christian, religion had nothing to do with the genocide. It was purely tribal.

You would do better to maybe explain to us why in Indonesia you can be arrested for being an atheist. And what kind of thinking is it that allows the government to do this to some of its citizens.
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Old 04-21-2013, 03:42 PM   #368
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Default Re: 2 explosions at Boston Marathon, UPDATE: at least 3 dead, 144 injured

Oh, we have gone so far off topic.

But add me as one who thinks moderators have gone around the bend in equating anti-religious statements with racism.

This thread began with a moderator making horrible statements about the crime in Boston. He was not censured. Yet, others get an infraction for "racism" while making a statement about religion? Crazyland. I wonder what happened to others before Har-Tru who were making harsh statements about Islam.

I have a hard time with all religions. That is my bias. I try to overcome it. Every Sunday morning that I drive by the LDS church around the corner, I get a little shudder. I get a little shudder as I see families and children walking across the parking lot and going into the place. I have to accept that is my bias. I find most mormons to be nice, caring people when I meet and get to know them. I try to shut out what seem to me to be bizarre beliefs because if I think about them, it drives me a little nuts.

I just don't understand why people have to say ugly things about other religions. Clearly, there are people who do awful things in the name of religion and who justify their hatreds with religion. However, were religion to disappear from the world, I hardly think that mankind would be different. There would still be scapegoating and false belief in spurious claims of fact and people who stir up the populace with pandering and lies. Some groups of people would still murder other groups of people.

Religion can be used for good and it can be used for evil. At least, have some respect for something that people hold dear to their hearts. It's possible to speak against aspects of religion without being hateful.
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Old 04-21-2013, 05:04 PM   #369
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Default Re: 2 explosions at Boston Marathon, UPDATE: at least 3 dead, 144 injured

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Originally Posted by gulzhan View Post
You may call it anti-clericalism, I call it atheism. The fact is, in early 20th-30th communists physically killed many priests and those members of churches who tried to stop them from destroying those churches. Many believers, not just christians but also muslims, were sent to GULAG just because they were believers. Later the terror was not that obvious. However, being a believer in God was a ground to expel from comsomol and thus any university, sometimes it was enough to have a person sent to psychiatric institution. Communism lead the war against religions in Soviet Union, those wars were in the name of atheism.
It seems to me that both of you are right to some degree. Part of the communist objective was to stamp out religion and any belief in god, so to that extent it was promoting atheism as well as communism. The primary objective was communism and a corollary of communism was "no religion" or putting it another way, atheism. I think it's splitting hairs to say it was anti-clerical because although it was anti-clerical and the clergy were symbols of the old order, the persecution was not just of the clergy, but also of believers who would have continued to worship without any clergy had they been allowed to do so.
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Old 04-21-2013, 05:19 PM   #370
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Default Re: 2 explosions at Boston Marathon, UPDATE: at least 3 dead, 144 injured

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Originally Posted by atennisfan View Post
You never heard that priests and nuns directly and indirectly helped the killings of up to a million people in Rwanda?

Wanna try again another religion that is considered "peaceful" like Buddha?

You have heard that buddhist monks in Myanmar are inviolved in the killings of Rohingya muslims in Myanmar, right?

But maybe for you the lives of milion and thousands are less than the lives of three Bostonians?
The ad hominems have begun I see...

I'm well aware of the atrocities committed by people of all faiths. That being said, neither Christianity nor Buddhism are responsible for the degrees of violence, terrorism, repression and persecution of minorities (including women, which isn't even a minority...) that we see in Islamic contexts.

Quote:
This shows how ignorant you are about Islam. So the religion is defined by the actions of extremely few?

Using your logic, can I say that catholics is the religion that supported paedophilia?
(having learned cayholics myself, I know it's not true)
There may be few who are willing to blow themselves up for their God, yet they are exponentially more numerous than those who do it in name of the Christian God or in the name of Buddha.

It's not true that terrorism is supported by "an extremely few" in Islamic countries. The prestigious company Pew conducted a survey in the most liberal Islamic countries (the most conservative ones wouldn't allow them to poll there) asking people if they thought suicide bombing in defense of Islam was ever justifiable. The results are baffling:

YES NO
Lebanon 82 12
Ivory Coast 73 27
Nigeria 66 26
Jordan 65 26
Bangladesh 58 23
Mali 54 35
Senegal 47 50
Ghana 44 43
Indonesia 43 54
Uganda 40 52
Pakistan 38 38
Turkey 20 64

You mention paedophilia. Go find results showing 82 percent of, say, Portuguese people think paedophilia is justifiable and then I'll accept your analogy as a valid one.


Quote:
Also, you obviously do not realize that treatment of other religions in the world's largest muslim country is better than say, treatment of Islam in the world's largest christian country.
What??

Are you seriously saying that Indonesia, where people have been put in jail for being atheists and churches are forced to close because there is a "zero church" policy by the authorities, treats other religions better than the US treats Muslims?

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/22/op...ance.html?_r=0

Quote:
So you basically challenge your own argument and agree that it is the action of people, not the actual teaching itself.
Show me where I talked about the actual teaching itself (although the Quran does make an explicit case for martyrdom in the context of holy war against infidels in a way other big religions don't).

I care for actual facts and actions. Back in 1000 AD, you could make a case that Christianity was as dangerous as Islam. Things have clearly changed, and ignoring that is ignoring reality.
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Originally Posted by philosophicalarf View Post
Armstrong says in-competition testing will never catch anyone, only out-of-competition testing and the blood passport can.

Tennis has no blood passport system, and does basically no out of competition testing.

The methods and drugs used by Armstrong in 1999 would work in tennis right now, with zero chance of being caught (not slightly surprising to anyone familiar with the topic, btw).
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Old 04-21-2013, 05:23 PM   #371
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Default Re: 2 explosions at Boston Marathon, UPDATE: at least 3 dead, 144 injured

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Oh, we have gone so far off topic.

But add me as one who thinks moderators have gone around the bend in equating anti-religious statements with racism.

This thread began with a moderator making horrible statements about the crime in Boston. He was not censured. Yet, others get an infraction for "racism" while making a statement about religion? Crazyland. I wonder what happened to others before Har-Tru who were making harsh statements about Islam.

I have a hard time with all religions. That is my bias. I try to overcome it. Every Sunday morning that I drive by the LDS church around the corner, I get a little shudder. I get a little shudder as I see families and children walking across the parking lot and going into the place. I have to accept that is my bias. I find most mormons to be nice, caring people when I meet and get to know them. I try to shut out what seem to me to be bizarre beliefs because if I think about them, it drives me a little nuts.

I just don't understand why people have to say ugly things about other religions. Clearly, there are people who do awful things in the name of religion and who justify their hatreds with religion. However, were religion to disappear from the world, I hardly think that mankind would be different. There would still be scapegoating and false belief in spurious claims of fact and people who stir up the populace with pandering and lies. Some groups of people would still murder other groups of people.

Religion can be used for good and it can be used for evil. At least, have some respect for something that people hold dear to their hearts. It's possible to speak against aspects of religion without being hateful.
This brilliant recent article (by a former Muslim) answers some of your points and saves me some typing time.

http://bigthink.com/against-the-new-...riticise-islam

Quote:
To criticise Islam
by TAURIQ MOOSA APRIL 15, 2013, 4:53 AM

Here is a statement that shouldn’t result in anyone being called racist: I think religion is a particularly harmful way of viewing the world, because it encourages irrational thought, groupthink, and unhelpful, backward opinions on many issues. Replace religion with one in particular, namely Islam, and you might find yourself on the receiving end of some strange accusations. This is unhelpful to important discussions, regarding the nature of religion and harm.

However, if what was written about religion in general is true, then it seems reasonable to ask follow-up questions, like: Are some religions worse than others? If so, which ones and why? Are religious people more prone to bad ways of thinking than non-religious? These don’t presume answers, since by questioning we come to determine the truth of these situations. But we should recognise that these, if formulated correctly, are empirical questions.

Consider Jainism and Islam. Were you to write a novel or draw cartoons mocking the Jains, would you lose sleep or fear for your life? Of course not. Most of us know that the same can not be said of Islam, even in countries that are secular and have a majority population of non-believers. The major tenet of Jainism is entirely premised on non-violence for all living things, known as ahimsa. This is so strong, Jains often walk with brooms, do not go out at night for fear of trampling animals or insects, refuse to eat honey since this does violence to bees, won’t farm for fear of digging and harming underground creatures, and so on.

If you try Googling “murdered by Jains”, the only results you’ll find are those alongside “getting a date with Megan Fox” or “winning a Nobel Prize”. In other words, it’s almost impossible.

This doesn’t mean Jainism doesn’t deserve criticism. Like anything human, it deserves critical engagement and like almost any religion is filled with much irrationality. However, that doesn’t mean we can’t applaud the wonderful virtue of non-violence and just how powerfully it fosters peaceable actions from its adherents.

However, this tells us something important: Religions, like all world-views, have the power to embed their tenets in our lives. People act on these beliefs as they do any other. In the Jains’ case, the extent of non-violence is believed to the point many of us would consider incredibly inconvenient.

But this is not particular to Jainism or even religion in particular: political, artistic, national, etc., world-views often have built-in systems of dealing with oneself, the world and others.

If it is true that systems, most notably religions, can and clearly do foster their tenets into people’s beliefs, and thus into their actions (even in everyday life), then we can agree we ought to be concerned about exactly what different systems teach, propagate, etc.

And Islam is certainly a religion worth being concerned about.


CRITICISING ISLAM, SAM HARRIS AND ISLAMOPHOBIA

Sam Harris, who has made convincing arguments for why Islam is more dangerous than other religions, has for some time now been labelled as a pseudoscientific racist. This doesn’t appear to make sense, since ideas are determined by their internal structure, not by the colour of a believer’s skin.

After all, Islam is a faith, not a race. It can be held by anybody and, unfortunately, often is. We are criticising bad actions and we are concerned about those methods that lead someone to commit such actions. If there is a clear correlation between truly believing Islam and murdering, misogyny and moral absolutism, then we ought to be concerned about Islam – just as we would anything else which did and does the same thing. Considering the high amounts of misogyny, brutality, and intellectual imprisonment that occurs in religious or Islamic countries, and of the kind of intellectual imprisonment that sees young people imprisoned, persecuted, and novelists become targets for assassins, it indicates that there is at least something to be worried about regarding Islam.

My criticism is not built out of hatred for Islam or Muslims (that would mean hating my family), as it is hatred for bad ideas. If Islam really had little to do with why Muslim extremists commit the acts they do, with why Islamic countries treat their women like cattle, with why Islamic communities turn blind eyes to domestic violence or sexism, then fine. Please tell us what the factors are and we will criticise those.

It should be noted that it’s reasonable to assume Islam is at the very least one factor among others and we can criticise more than one thing at a time. Thus, if I happen to criticise the view that Islam promotes irrational, sexist views of women, that doesn’t mean I dispute poverty, education, inequality, or whatever else are problems in these communities.

To assert Islam has absolutely no role in shaping people’s actions is to be blind to how people behave: based on systems of thought, or in-built behaviours they’ve acquired. If we can witness, for example, Jains living uncomfortable but completely peaceful lives, it stands to reason that we can agree religions really do enable people to act certain ways. This means, if religions dictate violence – which Jainism does not – then we can conclude some of its adherents, its communities and so on, will be violent. Islam, in its holy book, in its hadith, in pronouncements of its leaders, does condone violence, misogyny and so on, which means we should expect to see some Muslims act as such.

The degree to which a religious leader must extend his theology in order to sanction violent action is a good indicator of that religion’s moral status. The Ayatollah Khomeini’s call for Salman Rushdie’s death, suicide bombers attacks, the Imams calling for the deaths of cartoonists – these don’t require deep exegesis or twisting of words any more than the gymnastics required to proclaim contemporary modern moral views of Islam.

Many Muslims will read me as saying they are violent, that they are immoral, that they deserve scrutiny more than most. This would be incorrect, since I am asking them to examine what they already believe in the same way they would examine or criticise anything else. Indeed, they are best placed to do so since they are the ones most likely to change hard-liners (just as they are probably also sheltering of bad ideas, due to believing already strange metaphysical things). Basically: I am criticising Islam, not Muslims, as being dangerous since I consider it a collection of bad ideas. And I think bad ideas, especially when propagated and which flirt with violence for non-adherents, are worth discarding since they often lead to harm.

Indeed, my arguments are made with benefiting Muslims; since, as Islamic critic Ibn Warraq has said, it is Muslims who suffer the most under these bad ideas. I have received messages from women in modern, contemporary secular democracies who fear for their safety since they wish to start their own lives, before the shackles of family become a noose. These women aren’t being irrational, since news-stories of Muslim families killing their daughters for “disobedience” are common (just Google “honour killings”). Many will claim this arises out of “culture” or “nationality” or whatever - but, again, I’m not disputing this either. But there’s no reason to think Islamic teaching is completely unrelated to what instigates such a culture in the first place.

Ask yourself again: If these were families of Jains, would these incidents have occurred? Probably not. And then, not particularly because they’re Jains, but because most people would not kill. This means most Muslims would not kill a disobedient daughter, either. However, the point remains that we can pin a common thread of cultural constraints, of heritage, of holy writing, of scripture, of religious doctrine, with such families that kill their daughters. Islam is a factor: to what extent is a constant question, but to deny it completely, to claim racism for even raising the question and more so for presenting evidence, is to deny reality.

We cannot keep calling critics like Sam Harris racist for pointing out evidence, for making reasonable arguments that highlight these sorts of trends. To paint critics of Islam with this weird brush of scientific racism is to enable an unfalsifiable assertion, since using the tools of reason and evidence apparently is merely a façade for (something like) racism; to say Islamic critics are not criticising the poverty, the culture, the psychopathy, or whatever is to miss the point that we can criticise many things including religion and especially Islam.

REALITY, NOT RACISM

It’s odd having to convince people to take seriously the notion that other people take religion seriously. Again, taking a system of thought seriously is not particular to religion over other kinds of systems - though it is perhaps more prevalent given the broad, metaphysical aspects religion covers.

Thus if religions in general appear to be of more concern than other systems of thought, and if people really do believe in varying degrees what religions dictate, surely we can argue one religion is more dangerous than another if the actions result in more harm? In other words, to argue that Islam is as peaceful as Jainism must surely be a nonsense claim. There is no evidence to support this. If you wish to argue Islam can be, that most of its adherents are as peaceful as Jains (though this is untrue since most people aren’t as non-violent), I wouldn’t disagree provided the evidence is strong.

Thus one can say Islam is a bad system of thought, while also agreeing that most Muslims are good people. But for some reason this seems a difficult connection to sever.

Given what Islam demands of its adherents, it seems particularly odd to call critics of Islam, like Harris, racist. It makes little sense, since this is a question premised on an empirical basis – not one based on judging others because of skin-colour.

After all, as someone with darker skin and who was once Muslim, I am convinced Islam is a more worrying global religion than others. No doubt many will assert that I’m claiming immunity, when all I’m claiming is reasonable argument and data.

It should be noted that whether Islamophobia is an actual “thing”, whether there exist reasons to be concerned about racism associated with Islam, is a question worth engaging. However, you can say this as someone concerned about race issues and, at the same time, argue Islam really is a problem more so than other religions.
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Armstrong says in-competition testing will never catch anyone, only out-of-competition testing and the blood passport can.

Tennis has no blood passport system, and does basically no out of competition testing.

The methods and drugs used by Armstrong in 1999 would work in tennis right now, with zero chance of being caught (not slightly surprising to anyone familiar with the topic, btw).

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Old 04-21-2013, 05:28 PM   #372
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Default Re: 2 explosions at Boston Marathon, UPDATE: at least 3 dead, 144 injured

The poll results are interesting, but more interesting would be the results of a similar poll taken 50 or 60 years before.

Is it the religion that drives the poll or is it the politics that drive the religion? I don't know.
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Old 04-21-2013, 05:37 PM   #373
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Default Re: 2 explosions at Boston Marathon, UPDATE: at least 3 dead, 144 injured

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The poll results are interesting, but more interesting would be the results of a similar poll taken 50 or 60 years before.

Is it the religion that drives the poll or is it the politics that drive the religion? I don't know.
The poll question was clear: "is it ever justifiable to kill yourself in defense of Islam?". It seems to me profoundly intellectually dishonest to pretend when these people say it's justifiable to kill oneself in defense of Islam, they really mean something else.

Somehow, it always is something different. Politics, sociology, poverty, "human nature"... I wonder how often failed suicide bombers will have to tell us they were doing it because of Allah to enter the promised blissed paradise for us to stop somehow looking for other explanations.
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Armstrong says in-competition testing will never catch anyone, only out-of-competition testing and the blood passport can.

Tennis has no blood passport system, and does basically no out of competition testing.

The methods and drugs used by Armstrong in 1999 would work in tennis right now, with zero chance of being caught (not slightly surprising to anyone familiar with the topic, btw).
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Old 04-21-2013, 06:04 PM   #374
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Default Re: 2 explosions at Boston Marathon, UPDATE: at least 3 dead, 144 injured

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The poll question was clear: "is it ever justifiable to kill yourself in defense of Islam?". It seems to me profoundly intellectually dishonest to pretend when these people say it's justifiable to kill oneself in defense of Islam, they really mean something else.

Somehow, it always is something different. Politics, sociology, poverty, "human nature"... I wonder how often failed suicide bombers will have to tell us they were doing it because of Allah to enter the promised blissed paradise for us to stop somehow looking for other explanations.


I'm not saying that. I just wonder if ideas have changed over time. Would people have answered the poll in the same way 100 years ago? 50 years ago? I don't know. Maybe yes, maybe no. I'm curious. I'm not prejudging the results.
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Old 04-21-2013, 06:16 PM   #375
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Default Re: 2 explosions at Boston Marathon, UPDATE: at least 3 dead, 144 injured

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I'm not saying that. I just wonder if ideas have changed over time. Would people have answered the poll in the same way 100 years ago? 50 years ago? I don't know. Maybe yes, maybe no. I'm curious. I'm not prejudging the results.
of course!!

this is the point, everyone moved forward and changed, ppl are changed thier Opinions are changed, ppl are more open i think, woman are Equal and no one with 0.1 % of cell in his brain will go and boom himself in the name of anyone.

the problem its just about wuth terror, its about Culture, Education and freedom.

i read last night about ppl who were kicked out bc they were way pretty

http://newsfeed.time.com/2013/04/17/...-too-handsome/

the funny part is that the police men thought the Men were way pretty
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