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Old 04-09-2013, 03:17 PM   #106
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Default Re: Maggie Thatcher died today

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Originally Posted by rocketassist View Post
The left vote was hugely split between Labour and the Liberal/SDP alliance.
Plus Michael Foot was unelectable, to a lesser extent so was Kinnock
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Old 04-09-2013, 03:27 PM   #107
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Default Re: Maggie Thatcher died today

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Originally Posted by scoobs View Post
That was how she did politics, she did not believe she was in power for the benefit of the whole country.
Not believing in consensus politics does not mean that you don't govern for the benefit of the whole country.
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Old 04-09-2013, 03:50 PM   #108
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Default Re: Maggie Thatcher died today

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Not believing in consensus politics does not mean that you don't govern for the benefit of the whole country.
No, it was her destruction and personal vendetta against the working class that did that.
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Old 04-09-2013, 04:13 PM   #109
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Default Re: Maggie Thatcher died today

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I have no problem with income inequality as long as there's a safety net for those at the very bottom of that income pile that ensures them a reasonable quality of health and life.

That seems to me to be where me and the right parts company - most of them seem to think that the law of the jungle should be allowed to operate to its logical conclusion, whatever the human consequences, which they will turn a blind eye to.
It's all very fine but there is a huge difference between helping a disabled person in need and a junkie or, say, an immigrant who refuses to socialize and work. Welfare state is not for all, it's for those who are willing to contribute to society.
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Old 04-09-2013, 04:22 PM   #110
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Default Re: Maggie Thatcher died today

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It's all very fine but there is a huge difference between helping a disabled person in need and a junkie or, say, an immigrant who refuses to socialize and work. Welfare state is not for all, it's for those who are willing to contribute to society.
Only 2% of our welfare bill goes on the unemployed inc sick and disabled.
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Old 04-09-2013, 04:27 PM   #111
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Default Re: Maggie Thatcher died today

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It's all very fine but there is a huge difference between helping a disabled person in need and a junkie or, say, an immigrant who refuses to socialize and work. Welfare state is not for all, it's for those who are willing to contribute to society.
I picture a mother with two children staring at her, too hungry even to cry - and I hope to heaven they'll never have to ask you or your state for a penny, because they're not likely to get it, since they aren't contributing to your vision of society. But maybe you're just too young and inexperienced to know that there can be a gargantuan gap between being willing and having the tools or the opportunity to.
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Old 04-09-2013, 04:41 PM   #112
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Default Re: Maggie Thatcher died today

Never thought about Thatcher as Maggie

RIP Margaret. I knew not that much about her politics except that she was a strong hater of my country. Still, I respected her. I liked her believes.
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Old 04-09-2013, 07:49 PM   #113
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Default Re: Maggie Thatcher died today

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Originally Posted by barbadosan View Post
I picture a mother with two children staring at her, too hungry even to cry - and I hope to heaven they'll never have to ask you or your state for a penny, because they're not likely to get it, since they aren't contributing to your vision of society. But maybe you're just too young and inexperienced to know that there can be a gargantuan gap between being willing and having the tools or the opportunity to.
Why only two children? Why not four? Or seven?
Cry me a river. Textbook example of the leftist populism. What is always omitted in this sentimental story though is that in order to give money to this... hmmm... irresponsible mother of two the government first should take them from the other mothers with children, the ones who actually work. Pretty interesting perception of justice and equality.
Another interesting thing is that socialists always mix up consequences of free will and conscious choice (i.e. having children, working/not working) and consequences of the events over which a person has no control (i.e. being disabled).
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Old 04-09-2013, 08:07 PM   #114
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Default Re: Maggie Thatcher died today

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Why only two children? Why not four? Or seven?
Cry me a river. Textbook example of the leftist populism. What is always omitted in this sentimental story though is that in order to give money to this... hmmm... irresponsible mother of two the government first should take them from the other mothers with children, the ones who actually work. Pretty interesting perception of justice and equality.
Another interesting thing is that socialists always mix up consequences of free will and conscious choice (i.e. having children, working/not working) and consequences of the events over which a person has no control (i.e. being disabled).
Why is this mother automatically irresponsible? She can have two children when she has a job, when times are good, and then find herself in very difficult circumstances through absolutely no fault of her own - perhaps her husband died or he left her, perhaps destructive capitalism did its wonderful magic, a recession ensued, and her job disappeared. She used up what savings she had and found herself with two children to feed and no job. And yet according to you, this makes her irresponsible. That's not her, that's the system - capitalism is predicated on winners and losers. A society that doesn't recognise this and put provision in place to ameliorate the hardship of the losers in this system is an inhumane one. A society that condemns innocent children, who had no choice in any of these, to a further generation of poverty and want because it holds the parents responsible, is an inhumane one. Call that socialism, dirigisme, or whatever you like, but I call it basic humanity.
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Old 04-09-2013, 08:20 PM   #115
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Default Re: Maggie Thatcher died today

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Originally Posted by AnnaK_4ever View Post
Why only two children? Why not four? Or seven?
Cry me a river. Textbook example of the leftist populism. What is always omitted in this sentimental story though is that in order to give money to this... hmmm... irresponsible mother of two the government first should take them from the other mothers with children, the ones who actually work. Pretty interesting perception of justice and equality.
Another interesting thing is that socialists always mix up consequences of free will and conscious choice (i.e. having children, working/not working) and consequences of the events over which a person has no control (i.e. being disabled).
1,701 people applied for a coffee shop job here which had nine vacancies.

Free will and conscious choice alright.
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Old 04-09-2013, 09:23 PM   #116
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Default Re: Maggie Thatcher died today

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The death of another human being should never be celebrated.
Yep this I didn't like her or what she stands for and she's caused a lot of misery when she was in power but I wouldn't celebrate her death.
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Old 04-09-2013, 09:31 PM   #117
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Default Re: Maggie Thatcher died today

how convenient to leave us these days when banksters are "too big to fail" (unlike miners in 80s). excellent timing to remind who was the brave pioneer of banking and hustling deregulation.
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Old 04-09-2013, 09:56 PM   #118
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Default Re: Maggie Thatcher died today

Blair won 3 times.
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Old 04-09-2013, 10:19 PM   #119
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Default Re: Maggie Thatcher died today

May she rest in peace, just like I would say to Hugo Chavez. I really cant tell if these were bad or good people, but following an ideology that I personally oppose because its your hearths conviction that you are right, I really dont think that makes someone evil.
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Old 04-10-2013, 11:03 AM   #120
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Default Re: Maggie Thatcher died today

Thatcher & (others) and Liverpool -
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england...yside-22073199

I've watched numberous documentaries the last couple of days and without doubt the best comment was 'It's impossible to be agnostic about her.'

Grandson of a miner & born & living in Greater Manchester. When it's said Britain was better off, the South East was certainly, I'd never bracket the NW, NE & South Wales with it. Didn't Scotland reject Thatcher initially & never change their opinion?
It's easier for me personally to comment on her international exploits. Falklands still saddens me, Pinochet - eek. Ireland was a mixed bag, my Irish Grandma called her TBW with slighyly spicer language years before it was fashionable to do so. Europe - it does em all in! The video footage of Thatcher moving the German flag & replacing it with the Union Jack in front of Kohl - sums up Britain & Europe still. Commonwealth conferences, 48-1 three times, I can't fault her conviction.
She 'made' spitting image.
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