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Old 04-09-2013, 02:05 AM   #76
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Default Re: Maggie Thatcher died today

Quote:
Originally Posted by rocketassist View Post
You must be pretty one-dimensional if you think her entire path was the 'only way' though. She could have found more of a middle ground instead of a complete shift towards the South East and leaving up north fucked.

3.5m were unemployed, an all-time high. No jobs were created up here.

The current government is actually going to go far beyond her.

And we revile her here not just for that but for the way she allowed her boot boys to get away with the Hillsborough smear- the biggest cover-up in UK political history. Her and Sir Bernard Ingham went along with it. For that, there really is no defence, not even from the right.
I never said she was perfect. But her overall legacy was positive, and anybody who says different is not viewing the situation in an even-handed manner.

A fair assessment would be to say that she did what was necessary, but probably in an unnecessarily harsh manner. She was tough, uncompromising and utterly ruthless. It is what Britain needed at the time, even if she had her flaws.
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Old 04-09-2013, 02:46 AM   #77
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Default Re: Maggie Thatcher died today

don't know that much about politics, what bad things she did to deserve such hatred even when she is dead now?
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Old 04-09-2013, 03:11 AM   #78
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Default Re: Maggie Thatcher died today

Someone posted that death should never be celebrated. This of course is true but if there was ever an anomaly to the rule...
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Old 04-09-2013, 04:02 AM   #79
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Default Re: Maggie Thatcher died today

Kind of before my time, I only caught the tail end of the 80s. Credit for being the first woman PM but she was so polarising that she may well have pulled up the ladder when breaking the glass ceiling.

The unions dug their own grave with Scargill to some degree but in her single-minded desire to crush them, she seemed oblivious to the social/human cost of her policies. Selling off council houses and not replenishing the stock, leaving large swathes of the country with no industry...the aforementioned cover ups with the police. scoobs summed it up best in saying that while she may be dead, Thatcherism has mutated and lives on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fujee View Post
The death of another human being should never be celebrated.
+1

I wasn't shouting from the rooftops when Bin Laden snuffed it. I find both sides of the spectrum distasteful - the Tory eulogising as well as those who are dancing on her grave.
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Old 04-09-2013, 05:37 AM   #80
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Default Re: Maggie Thatcher died today

People who blame Thatcher for everything seem to block out the fact that she was elected three times. A fairly sure indication that she was carrying out the will of the people. So why not just heap your scorn on the electorate? She was serving the nation.
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Old 04-09-2013, 06:01 AM   #81
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Default Re: Maggie Thatcher died today

Quote:
Originally Posted by buddyholly View Post
People who blame Thatcher for everything seem to block out the fact that she was elected three times. A fairly sure indication that she was carrying out the will of the people. So why not just heap your scorn on the electorate? She was serving the nation.
yeah, this puzzled me
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Old 04-09-2013, 06:50 AM   #82
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Default Re: Maggie Thatcher died today

Elvis Costello: Tramp the dirt down



Quote:
Well I hope I don't die too soon
I pray the Lord my soul to save
Oh I'll be a good boy, I'm trying so hard to behave
Because there's one thing I know, I'd like to live
long enough to savour
That's when they finally put you in the ground
I'll stand on your grave and tramp the dirt down

When England was the whore of the world
Margeret [sic] was her madam
And the future looked as bright and as clear as
the black tarmacadam
Well I hope that she sleeps well at night, isn't
haunted by every tiny detail
'Cos when she held that lovely face in her hands
all she thought of was betrayal

And now the cynical ones say that it all ends
the same in the long run
Try telling that to the desperate father who just
squeezed the life from his only son
And how it's only voices in your head and
dreams you never dreamt
Try telling him the subtle difference between
justice and contempt
Try telling me she isn't angry with this pitiful
discontent
When they flaunt it in your face as you line up
for punishment
And then expect you to say "Thank you"
straighten up, look proud and pleased
Because you've only got the symptoms, you
haven't got the whole disease
Just like a schoolboy, whose head's like a tin-can
filled up with dreams then poured down
the drain
Try telling that to the boys on both sides, being
blown to bits or beaten and maimed
Who takes all the glory and none of the shame

Well I hope you live long now, I pray the Lord
your soul to keep
I think I'll be going before we fold our arms
and start to weep
I never thought for a moment that human life
could be so cheap
'Cos when they finally put you in the ground
They'll stand there laughing and tramp the
dirt down
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Old 04-09-2013, 06:54 AM   #83
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Default Re: Maggie Thatcher died today

It is rare to see someone so convinced they are always right like Thatcher. She was the true offshoot of the 19th century politics (including imperialism and all that), so there was little truly original in her ways. But she was a lady. Iron Lady. She was the continuation of the likes of Churchill, embodiment of the uniquely British conservative spirit with a peculiar contempt for the poor and selfishness in dealing with other nations. (something like - you Germany and the rest of Europe can go straight to hell as long as I'm fine etc)

When you couple the aforementioned with the sense of self-righteousness and even moral superiority, you have a powerful combo that previously ruled half of the world.

Her hatred for the poor would drive me to the verge of comedy, to think of it now she resembled a caricature from a cartoon. That she managed to successfully employ 19th century politics at the end of 20th century is a true feat.

There are so many British rock songs against her, her rule coincided with punk music, I wouldn't know where to begin if I wanted to post a video...

Maggie, you were a witch on a broomstick if ever there was one, but honestly I could never hate you. In your defence, you were for a brief period the right woman at the right place. You had a long and successful life, you were a global political leader and will never be forgotten.

RIP.

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Old 04-09-2013, 07:32 AM   #84
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Default Re: Maggie Thatcher died today

I feel sorry for Satan now he has to put up with her. Hell will be a much worse place for the damned.
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Old 04-09-2013, 07:46 AM   #85
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Default Re: Maggie Thatcher died today

Quote:
Originally Posted by Topspindoctor View Post
Thousands of people die every day. Who cares about one more?
I have no personal opinion about Thatcher, but this is one of the very rare occasions I agree with topspinny.
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Old 04-09-2013, 08:33 AM   #86
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Default Re: Maggie Thatcher died today

The divisive reaction and the intensity of it is one of the hallmarks of Thatcher.

She ruthlessly divided people into "our people," who needed to be looked after and encouraged, and "them," who needed to told to stop moaning, stand on their own two feet and if necessary, destroyed. That was how she did politics, she did not believe she was in power for the benefit of the whole country.

Hardly surprising that her "our people" mourn her passing while those she lumped together as "them" do not look back on her with fond memories.
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Old 04-09-2013, 08:33 AM   #87
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Default Re: Maggie Thatcher died today

Quote:
Originally Posted by buddyholly View Post
People who blame Thatcher for everything seem to block out the fact that she was elected three times. A fairly sure indication that she was carrying out the will of the people. So why not just heap your scorn on the electorate? She was serving the nation.
She won huge majorities in the last two elections she won as well.
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Old 04-09-2013, 08:37 AM   #88
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Default Re: Maggie Thatcher died today

Some of the strongest pro-Capitalist views come out of people who were forced to live under Communism until the revolutions across Europe in the late 1980s that ultimately led to the fall of the USSR.

That's understandable - I don't think we who didn't go through that can quite understand how despicable Communism was as lived by the ordinary person, how restrictive, how crushing, how grim. It's no wonder Capitalism is seen as a great thing, embodying freedom, choice, self-reliance and less Government.

What's missing from that is the fact that Capitalism no more has all the answers for how society should live and organise itself than Communism did. It might be a better system, but it still has great flaws and we've seen since 2007/8 in close-up just how bad some of those flaws are.
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Old 04-09-2013, 08:41 AM   #89
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Default Re: Maggie Thatcher died today

Quote:
Originally Posted by AdeyC View Post
She won huge majorities in the last two elections she won as well.
Let's not forget that in 83 and 87 the Left was completely divided in on itself, and the vote badly split between Labour and the Liberal/SDP Alliance, which allowed Thatcher into office on huge majorities that our perverse electoral system sometimes throws up.

In terms of actual vote share, hers was nothing spectacular at all, John Major did better on that front in 1992 than Thatcher did in any of her elections. She won under the rules, which were and are, in my opinion, problematic. Similar things happened with Blair in 1997 and 2001 - tactical voting leading to hugely inflated majorities.

She certainly had a great amount of support but she hardly carried all before her.
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Old 04-09-2013, 08:48 AM   #90
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Default Re: Maggie Thatcher died today

Quote:
Originally Posted by scoobs View Post
She certainly had a great amount of support but she hardly carried all before her.
With the possible exception of Churchill I doubt that any PM ever has or ever will.
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