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Old 04-11-2013, 08:25 AM   #151
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Default Re: Maggie Thatcher died today

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Originally Posted by Chris 84 View Post
if she had suspected that you were gay, she might not have. she brought in section 28/clause 2A and through her party and her contacts in the media portrayed the labour party as perverted because they spoke up for gay rights.
A simple spending 10 seconds to sign an autograph for someone is how i see it


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As I said on Twitter last night - what many on the Right want is not respect for Thatcher but for the Left to say that she was right and they were wrong. They want surrender. They can dream on. Thatcher won the battle in her time, she did not win the war over those who wish to create a fairer society.
I don't think anyone on the Right needs the Left to say that she was right and they were wrong - it's pretty obvious.
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Old 04-11-2013, 08:39 AM   #152
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Default Re: Maggie Thatcher died today

Well that may be your view. Significant portions of this country do not agree.

But that's the past, and so is she. We move forward.
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Old 04-11-2013, 08:53 AM   #153
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Default Re: Maggie Thatcher died today

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Just read an article by the creator of "Yes, Minister." He said he decided it was time to vote for Thatcher when 6 airport workers were sacked for stealing from passengers' suitcases and the Transport and General Workers Union called a national strike claiming that stealing from suitcases was simply a perk of the job.
And that is why Britain was the sick man of Europe and why Thatcher had to smash the Unions to put the Great back in Britain.
Cool story, but I would prefer if you could relate your own experiences with her rule.
You must remember her in her prime, maybe you got to vote for/against her as well.

So tell me - honestly - what did you think about her and her ways back in the 80s? You were certainly younger and some other things may have changed.
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Old 04-11-2013, 09:22 AM   #154
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Default Re: Maggie Thatcher died today

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Well that may be your view. Significant portions of this country do not agree.
Only those who had their snouts removed from the trough.
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Old 04-11-2013, 09:23 AM   #155
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Default Re: Maggie Thatcher died today

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Only those who had their snouts removed from the trough.
That is utter, offensive garbage.
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Old 04-11-2013, 09:37 AM   #156
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Default Re: Maggie Thatcher died today

True though. Well, also patronising nuffies on the far left. But they'll never get it.

Normal people realise that what Thatcher did was necessary, even if they disagree with how it was done.
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Old 04-11-2013, 09:50 AM   #157
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Default Re: Maggie Thatcher died today

Normal so if you disagree now you're abnormal. Delightful.

And it absolutely is not true - demonising people for claiming a benefit while unemployed that they paid for with their taxes while they are in work is not having your snout in the trough. That's the attitude of back then, and that we're seeing again, that blame poor people for their own circumstances, blame them for not getting jobs when there are nowhere near enough jobs out there for everyone to get. That's not their individual fault, that is the way of the economic system in which we live.

I think the majority would agree that some of what she did was necessary, but how much, how far, how fast, and especially how harsh - that debate is where the real differences lie.
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Old 04-11-2013, 10:04 AM   #158
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Default Re: Maggie Thatcher died today

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I think the majority would agree that some of what she did was necessary, but how much, how far, how fast, and especially how harsh - that debate is where the real differences lie.
I think her first mandate was probably needed, and then she overstayed, due to folkland war, politics that favored divisions, war with the unions, problems with Northern Irelans etc in the old divide et empira form. People often opt for what they perceive a strong remedy to a sickness, that is why she was always so controversial, respected and hated at the same time.

She should not have let her own conservatives oust her eventually. She had to know when to retreat, that's her own fault.
It clearly shows she was too much self-righteous and lacked a certain sense of proportion.

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Old 04-11-2013, 10:12 AM   #159
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Default Re: Maggie Thatcher died today

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And it absolutely is not true - demonising people for claiming a benefit while unemployed that they paid for with their taxes while they are in work is not having your snout in the trough.
Look at this thread - the people who hate Thatcher are from the regions that suffered under her, who whine about what she did without acknowledging that their misery was predetermined well before she ever came to power.

The snout in the trough isn't unemployment benefits. It's the massive subsidies that were used to keep industries afloat that should not have existed. She withdrew the support and people demonised her, when the support should never have existed in the first place because it was killing the country.

The North had to take its medicine. If previous governments had more testicular fortitude, then Thatcher would never have been needed. People like yourself would do well to recognise it, rather than engage in wailing and handwringing about 'fairness', and enabling their victim mentality.
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Old 04-11-2013, 10:20 AM   #160
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Default Re: Maggie Thatcher died today

The people who suffered in the regions did not do so solely on the basis of state subsidies that were withdrawn. What you apparently fail to appreciate is that the swingeing hatchet-job she took to the economy after 1979 hurt competitive industry as well as uncompetitive industry as her over-tight squeeze on spending dragged the economy into depression. Recession was already guaranteed due to the 1979 energy crisis, but the tight squeeze made it much worse and forced out of business companies that would have made it through otherwise.

Then there's the fact that the impact of these closures were never addressed - little was done to help people turfed out of work back onto the employment ladder - they were blamed, stigmatised and castigated for being losers in a system they tried their best to work within.
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Old 04-11-2013, 10:22 AM   #161
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Default Re: Maggie Thatcher died today

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Normal people realise...
Are you originally from Serbia/Bosnia/Croatia?

Here we can ask the usual question "Are you normal?" with that meaning of reasoned, prudent, sane, just etc
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Old 04-11-2013, 11:46 AM   #162
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Default Re: Maggie Thatcher died today

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I hope for your sake that your self-determination never runs into the realities of life over which you have no control - and I hope that if/when you need a helping hand, you will indeed be given one instead of someone reading you some inane and self-righteous spiel about free will and choice.
Blah-blah-blah... as per usual with leftists.
My family (factory workers, engineers and an accountant) had to go through the whole country collapsing, hyperinflation, job losses -- direct results of the "bright" future leftwingers are campaigning for. I witnessed my grandmother suffer a heart attack queuing up for eggs and butter in an empty grocery store (socialism always ends up with empty stores). So don't tell me about "the realities of life".
Was it easy to overcome? Hell NO. Lots of people, those who were corrupted by socialism and used to be paid for producing nothing, are still not over it. It's much easier to lay blame on everyone else than shut up and actually try to do something.

You know, Stalin was planning to turn the whole world into communism, install Soviet government everywhere -- from Paraguay to New Zeland. And he or, rather, the useful idiots in the West on which he could always rely succeeded. I'm sure he would be happy to see what Eurobureaucracy has done to Europe and how the left propaganda has been defining the public opinion for decades now.
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Old 04-11-2013, 12:00 PM   #163
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Default Re: Maggie Thatcher died today

As human beings we are more inclined to forgive and forget as time passes us by. However, I don't think the majority of those who frown upon her tenure as PM will ever 'forgive and forget', and understandably so. She was divisive as many have said, to the extent where people's lives were ruined forever. That's not right in my eyes.
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Old 04-11-2013, 12:41 PM   #164
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Default Re: Maggie Thatcher died today

I thoroughly disagree with Thatcherism, I think its abhorrent and selfish. But that said, her tenure as PM did revitalise many aspects of British life. I respect and despise her in different measure. As a humanist, I believe a persons death should never be celebrated. So there is absolutely no ill feeling towards her as a human being outside of politics. She had many people who loved her and she has now passed on, that is something which is sad, regardless of political polemics.

However, that aside, many still feel a gross injustice reverberant today from her policies, and while many regard her as saving the economy, I merely see her as delaying the meltdown for another couple of decades.

Its already been said best in these two articles, I make no attempt to hide my left wing political stance, I absolutely share the sentiment of these two commentators. Two quotes from these run so true with me:

It always struck me as peculiar, too, when the Spice Girls briefly championed Thatcher as an early example of girl power. I don't see that. She is an anomaly; a product of the freak-onomy of her time. Barack Obama, interestingly, said in his statement that she had "broken the glass ceiling for other women". Only in the sense that all the women beneath her were blinded by falling shards. She is an icon of individualism, not of feminism.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2...garet-thatcher

and

The price of everything and the value of nothing
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XDtClJYJBj8
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Old 04-11-2013, 12:46 PM   #165
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Default Re: Maggie Thatcher died today

That Glenda Jackson polemic was absolutely superb.
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