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Old 04-11-2013, 02:54 AM   #136
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Default Re: Maggie Thatcher died today

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Originally Posted by Caesar1844 View Post
Without an economy, you can't help anyone. Britain has Thatcher to thank that it isn't Greece right now.


Attlee would have been as useless as Wilson at dealing with the problems Thatcher was forced to confront.

Attlee has the luxury of being a Prime Minister who was required to do things that were popular. Thatcher was required to do things that were unpopular. Nonetheless she did them, and did them exceedingly well. Millions of Britons who have ultimately benefited from it continue to curse her, ignorant of how lucky they are.

She's basically Batman.
You can't just 'assume' though- that's like saying what if Thatcher came to power in 1945, or if she came to power in 1997 when there actually was an economic boom- would she have done different things. Attlee's administration created the NHS and that will always be one of the greatest successes in UK history, and certainly something in his favour.

At the end of the day we're not gonna agree- you obviously have a lot of connections with the UK even if you are Australian (I think) but if you know all about Liverpool/Merseyside and what it was like under her, you would understand why she is loathed in these parts. Her and Geoffrey Howe discussed a 'managed decline' of the entire city before Michael Heseltine's intervention, and her establishment covered up the police's role in Hillsborough.
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Old 04-11-2013, 03:02 AM   #137
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Default Re: Maggie Thatcher died today

I admire both Attlee and Thatcher greatly but they are a study in contrasts. I doubt Thatcher would have had the ability to build consensus the way Attlee needed to post-WWII, but Attlee did not have anywhere near the gumption to take on the unions the way Thatcher did.

Personally I regard Thatcher as greater because I regard the greatest leaders as the ones with the courage to do what is right when everybody hates you. That is no indictment of Attlee however.

I believe history will regard Thatcher as the greater leader because she will end up having been the one Prime Minister who, for a short time, sparked a renaissance in British power and prosperity during the long, steady decline of its post-Empire period.
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Old 04-11-2013, 03:12 AM   #138
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Default Re: Maggie Thatcher died today

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Why only two children? Why not four? Or seven?
Cry me a river. Textbook example of the leftist populism. What is always omitted in this sentimental story though is that in order to give money to this... hmmm... irresponsible mother of two the government first should take them from the other mothers with children, the ones who actually work. Pretty interesting perception of justice and equality.
Another interesting thing is that socialists always mix up consequences of free will and conscious choice (i.e. having children, working/not working) and consequences of the events over which a person has no control (i.e. being disabled).
I hope for your sake that your self-determination never runs into the realities of life over which you have no control - and I hope that if/when you need a helping hand, you will indeed be given one instead of someone reading you some inane and self-righteous spiel about free will and choice.
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Old 04-11-2013, 06:07 AM   #139
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Default Re: Maggie Thatcher died today

What I find most ironic in my country is the contrasting reactions of the right to the deaths of Hugo Chavez and Margaret Thatcher.

Because he was of the Left, the Right in this country felt entitled to say whatever the hell they wanted and accord no respect whatsoever. However, they demand that everyone pay respects to Thatcher and work up quite an outrage that some people might have the temerity to feel her legacy was an imperfect one.

As I said on Twitter last night - what many on the Right want is not respect for Thatcher but for the Left to say that she was right and they were wrong. They want surrender. They can dream on. Thatcher won the battle in her time, she did not win the war over those who wish to create a fairer society.
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Old 04-11-2013, 07:02 AM   #140
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Default Re: Maggie Thatcher died today

I believe most people object to the highly personal insults, characterised by vile misogyny, that has come out in the criticism of Thatcher.
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Old 04-11-2013, 07:03 AM   #141
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Default Re: Maggie Thatcher died today

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I believe most people object to the highly personal insults, characterised by vile misogyny, that has come out in the criticism of Thatcher.
Well I don't think there's ever a need for that, no matter who the subject is.
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Old 04-11-2013, 07:10 AM   #142
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Default Re: Maggie Thatcher died today

Just read an article by the creator of "Yes, Minister." He said he decided it was time to vote for Thatcher when 6 airport workers were sacked for stealing from passengers' suitcases and the Transport and General Workers Union called a national strike claiming that stealing from suitcases was simply a perk of the job.
And that is why Britain was the sick man of Europe and why Thatcher had to smash the Unions to put the Great back in Britain.
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Old 04-11-2013, 07:21 AM   #143
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Default Re: Maggie Thatcher died today

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Originally Posted by rocketassist View Post

At the end of the day we're not gonna agree- you obviously have a lot of connections with the UK even if you are Australian (I think) but if you know all about Liverpool/Merseyside and what it was like under her, you would understand why she is loathed in these parts.
Liverpool was an important port when shipping headed into the Atlantic. When Britain turned to Europe, Liverpool's fate was sealed. Decline was inevitable.
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Old 04-11-2013, 07:25 AM   #144
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Default Re: Maggie Thatcher died today

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Originally Posted by buddyholly View Post
Just read an article by the creator of "Yes, Minister." He said he decided it was time to vote for Thatcher when 6 airport workers were sacked for stealing from passengers' suitcases and the Transport and General Workers Union called a national strike claiming that stealing from suitcases was simply a perk of the job.
And that is why Britain was the sick man of Europe and why Thatcher had to smash the Unions to put the Great back in Britain.
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Old 04-11-2013, 07:25 AM   #145
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Default Re: Maggie Thatcher died today

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if she had suspected that you were gay, she might not have. she brought in section 28/clause 2A and through her party and her contacts in the media portrayed the labour party as perverted because they spoke up for gay rights.
A simple spending 10 seconds to sign an autograph for someone is how i see it


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As I said on Twitter last night - what many on the Right want is not respect for Thatcher but for the Left to say that she was right and they were wrong. They want surrender. They can dream on. Thatcher won the battle in her time, she did not win the war over those who wish to create a fairer society.
I don't think anyone on the Right needs the Left to say that she was right and they were wrong - it's pretty obvious.
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Old 04-11-2013, 07:39 AM   #146
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Default Re: Maggie Thatcher died today

Well that may be your view. Significant portions of this country do not agree.

But that's the past, and so is she. We move forward.
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Old 04-11-2013, 07:53 AM   #147
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Default Re: Maggie Thatcher died today

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Originally Posted by buddyholly View Post
Just read an article by the creator of "Yes, Minister." He said he decided it was time to vote for Thatcher when 6 airport workers were sacked for stealing from passengers' suitcases and the Transport and General Workers Union called a national strike claiming that stealing from suitcases was simply a perk of the job.
And that is why Britain was the sick man of Europe and why Thatcher had to smash the Unions to put the Great back in Britain.
Cool story, but I would prefer if you could relate your own experiences with her rule.
You must remember her in her prime, maybe you got to vote for/against her as well.

So tell me - honestly - what did you think about her and her ways back in the 80s? You were certainly younger and some other things may have changed.
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Old 04-11-2013, 08:22 AM   #148
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Default Re: Maggie Thatcher died today

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Well that may be your view. Significant portions of this country do not agree.
Only those who had their snouts removed from the trough.
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Old 04-11-2013, 08:23 AM   #149
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Default Re: Maggie Thatcher died today

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Only those who had their snouts removed from the trough.
That is utter, offensive garbage.
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Old 04-11-2013, 08:37 AM   #150
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Default Re: Maggie Thatcher died today

True though. Well, also patronising nuffies on the far left. But they'll never get it.

Normal people realise that what Thatcher did was necessary, even if they disagree with how it was done.
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