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Old 04-02-2013, 12:33 AM   #1
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Default Keep the permanent ban - The Bulldog

Originally posted by The Bulldog

Contrary to what some others have suggested, I would not dismiss the permanent ban. If posters are misbehaving enough to regularly get hit by lengthy bans, then contributing (or causing harm) to a tennis forum is obviously not for them. In fact, I would like to see more bans dished out to posters who do nothing but wind up others. This mostly occurs on the match and live commentary threads in GM. That section of the forum is really not a pleasant place to discuss tennis at the moment, but there's a solution to the problem, though it's obviously not an easy choice to make. I would definitely be in favour of a zero-tolerance to new members policy.
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Old 04-02-2013, 12:35 AM   #2
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Default Re: Keep the permanent ban - The Bulldog

Originally posted by Jelena

In case you keep the permaban, every moderator has to be asked about his opinion, and as long as not every moderator gave his opinion, the permaban can't kick in. 14/15 moderators is not enough.
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Old 04-02-2013, 12:37 AM   #3
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Default Re: Keep the permanent ban - The Bulldog

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowwy View Post
Originally posted by Jelena

In case you keep the permaban, every moderator has to be asked about his opinion, and as long as not every moderator gave his opinion, the permaban can't kick in. 14/15 moderators is not enough.
Jelena, my question to you is, are you intending to give full power any one moderator to make a decision that they want? Because this is what I am seeing here. This is taking it away from it being a vote really and making it into a situation where any one person really does have a lot of power
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Old 04-02-2013, 09:31 AM   #4
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Default Re: Keep the permanent ban - The Bulldog

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowwy View Post
Jelena, my question to you is, are you intending to give full power any one moderator to make a decision that they want? Because this is what I am seeing here. This is taking it away from it being a vote really and making it into a situation where any one person really does have a lot of power
well, as I said I think permaban is like a death sentence for this forum. That's why I think that every moderator must be involved and give his opinion. How should 5 of 20 moderators be enough to hand out a permaban? This is simply disgusting. And that's why I want every moderator to give his opinion, cause then maybe some aspects come in that might lead to a new perspective, which leads then "only" to a long-time ban, but with a perspective to return. Maybe I could live with a "permaban voted by absolute majority", but at least every moderator has to give his opinion.

Do you know the movie "12 angry men"? There in the beginning one juror says: "No, I am not convinced of his guilt." All the others say: "Why not? It's crystal clear he's guilty!" The dissenting juror then says: "How is it crystal clear? What if this/what if that....?" Then the next one starts to get a new perspective, a bit later the next one and so on. In the end the deliquent was found "not guilty", because then every juror wasn't convinced of his guilt or convinced he was not guilty.
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Old 04-02-2013, 12:47 PM   #5
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Default Re: Keep the permanent ban - The Bulldog

I understand what Jelena is saying, and I agree in principle. But I think the realities of life might be too much to expect all the admins/mods to be present all the time. I also think that the group of people making such big decisions should not be restricted to admins/mods.

I suggest x number of "jurors" be required. Let's set it to some number, say 12. Of those, 50% should be admin/mods randomly selected. The other 50% should be users who shall be randomly selected. I think we all have a certain responsibility to the site and should be available to serve as "jury" members occasionally. Then the "accused" shall have a right to object "within reason" if there is a certain member(s) of the jury (including admin/mod, within limits) whom he/she thinks will be prejudiced against him. A good reason must be presented, just because someone is a certain player's fan isn't enough. But if the user can show a tendency of animosity via posts, PM's, bad reps, or the like, then they should have the right to veto that juror.

Given this, I don't know if the vote should be required to be unanimous or not. This isn't a criminal trial. Perhaps it depends on the severity of the punishment. An online jury has different dynamics from a real jury where you are breathing right next to each other, have eye contact, etc. I think it should be at least 2/3 and not a simple majority.

I'll also post a form of this in SliceAce's democracy thread.

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Old 04-04-2013, 02:43 AM   #6
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Default Re: Keep the permanent ban - The Bulldog

If somebody has committed 'multiple and repeated rule violations' I would suggest an inbetween of a 12 month ban first, and then permanent if they re-offend upon return from that, if it makes sense.

Reading through the permaban list there's many I feel a tinge of sorrow for, but also a few I have absolutely zero desire to see come back to MTF, which is why it's a bit of a tricky issue IMO.
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Old 04-06-2013, 06:20 PM   #7
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Default Re: Keep the permanent ban - The Bulldog

if you keep permaban, make sure ALL mods should be in favor of perma banning that person, not just a few
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Old 04-06-2013, 08:15 PM   #8
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Default Re: Keep the permanent ban - The Bulldog

Fully support this proposal. Against 15/15, simple majority is more than enough.
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Old 04-08-2013, 09:27 PM   #9
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Default Re: Keep the permanent ban - The Bulldog

Sorry, how is a rule CHANGE to KEEP something?

If we're discussing the "all the mods" thing, please, change the title, this is confusing and not exactly in a non-polemic way.
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Old 04-09-2013, 12:23 AM   #10
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Default Re: Keep the permanent ban - The Bulldog

I'm just arguing against those who want it removed.

If more mods are in favour of permabanning a user than against it, then it should be enforced.
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Old 04-09-2013, 02:26 AM   #11
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Default Re: Keep the permanent ban - The Bulldog

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Bulldog View Post
I'm just arguing against those who want it removed.

If more mods are in favour of permabanning a user than against it, then it should be enforced.
I'm not saying anything to you, bro. I think this thread belongs to the "Remove permaban" thread, because it isn't exactly a rule-change to keep it.
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Old 04-09-2013, 11:30 AM   #12
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Default Re: Keep the permanent ban - The Bulldog

I basically agree with Mr. viruzzz here George.

The original thread was to change the rules to remove the permaban totally or in some cases. Debate was to occur within that thread. A negative response in that thread would be to argue against its removal. I didn't see a real need to start another thread, where the nature of the debate would simply be reversed.

> Remove permaban thread. Supporters want it removed either totally or in some cases and explain why. People against this say why they don't agree with the proposal to remove it.

> Keep permaban thread. Supporters think it is useful and want to keep it. People against keeping it say it should be removed or partially removed.

Seems a bit superfluous to me to have two threads and as Mr. viruzzz said, it's not a rule change to keep it.

I personally thought the mods would merge the two threads. Ehhh, I guess it doesn't matter at this point.

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Old 04-09-2013, 12:56 PM   #13
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Default Re: Keep the permanent ban - The Bulldog

I support keeping the permaban. And interrupting posters should be banned easier. If somebody gets banned because of a posting style, I think he/she should be banned for a year after the third ban. One year because maybe that would be already such a long time that he might 1) not come back, 2) come back trolling, or 3) would be missing MTF so much that he'd stop trolling. And not to make that a ban trap for old users, bans older than 10 years shouldn't be taken into account.

After the comeback, the poster should be allowed to have anymore two bans because of his/her posting style. The third ban should then be a permaban. Though, to keep those once banned poster on the same line with others, bans older than 7,5 years shouldn't be taken into account.

And of course, immediate permaban needs to be given to double accounts, advert bots, and in cases like Raferminator.
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Old 04-16-2013, 09:32 AM   #14
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Default Re: Keep the permanent ban - The Bulldog

I support keeping the permaban. If someone can't permanently obey the rules he's not worth beeing here. Rules are rules. Period.
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