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Old 03-29-2013, 10:41 AM   #121
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Default Re: Change of banning rules debate

like i said on the other thread, i dont think the rules should change much, i do believe it should be 6 months after the second red card and after the 3 it should be 1 year ban but in the 4 red card, per ban forever.


i do think words like mug, clown should be allowed and i think rules are rules, as much as it hurts be ti say it ppl think they can hid behind words or computers and they shouldnt.
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Old 03-29-2013, 10:59 AM   #122
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Default Re: Change of banning rules debate

I am starting to consider what Amber is saying and correlating this with masterclass and think that maybe the gravest discriminatory remarks or racist comments should lead to a permaban but only through a decision taken into account by all Moderators.
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Old 03-29-2013, 11:30 AM   #123
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Default Re: Change of banning rules debate

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slasher1985 View Post
I am starting to consider what Amber is saying and correlating this with masterclass and think that maybe the gravest discriminatory remarks or racist comments should lead to a permaban but only through a decision taken into account by all Moderators.
so the mod team should wait until all the mods will be on site to ban someone? i totally disagree, marv theres life, jobs, family and time zones.

i do think it should be a Resolution of at least half of the Mod/admin team.

if theres like 13 mods, 7 need to vote yes.
but i do think the number of mods voting isnt the issue and i doubt if a mod per ban a user without asking or talking to the admins/other mods b4 that.
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Old 03-29-2013, 11:31 AM   #124
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Default Re: Change of banning rules debate

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Originally Posted by Slasher1985 View Post
I am starting to consider what Amber is saying and correlating this with masterclass and think that maybe the gravest discriminatory remarks or racist comments should lead to a permaban but only through a decision taken into account by all Moderators.
In short, let's make a permaban next to impossible. If somebody really makes a "gravest discriminatory remarks or racist comments", I hope the first admin who comes online bans the user on the spot, no need to further waste everybody's time discussing it.
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Old 03-29-2013, 11:36 AM   #125
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Default Re: Change of banning rules debate

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Originally Posted by Time Violation View Post
In short, let's make a permaban next to impossible. If somebody really makes a "gravest discriminatory remarks or racist comments", I hope the first admin who comes online bans the user on the spot, no need to further waste everybody's time discussing it.
agree

ban him bc this is not the place for him
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Old 03-29-2013, 12:07 PM   #126
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Default Re: Change of banning rules debate

Just putting this in this thread as well...

Quote:
"Just to clarify, I think permabans might be needed as a measure for the most serious offenses having to do with potential harm, such as making threats against players or other posters. I think long enough bans can be given for the offensive but highly inappropriate posts such as racist remarks or discriminatory posts (whatever those are) that no permanent ban is needed. I and I would hope most put threats of harm at a more dangerous and requirement of action level than someone's prejudiced rant or raving or insults against a particular group of people. Not to minimize the latter, of course.

Permabans might be required when some lawful authority requires the site to take this action in the case of death or injury threats, for example, and the forum site should reserve their use for special cases."
Some of the other offenses you've listed Slasher, might need to be re-evaluated by admins or some entity in terms of their severity. For example, an unfounded outright accusation (not speculation) about a specific player or players doping or match fixing is potentially very serious. It amounts to libel and it can lead to lawsuits against the site if sufficient action is not taken.

Note that there are fine lines here. Outright accusation is different from speculation or suspicion. One can suspect player x and give reasons for that without outright accusation. But even speculation or suspicion can quickly go in the wrong direction if not careful. So many sites prefer that people don't even speculate and will warn people against that.

I think people (admins or a select team) should settle on the severity of each specific offense and then the length of bans should be handed out based on that severity and number of occurrences of said violation and any other factors which may influence a decision.

Respectfully,
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Old 03-29-2013, 12:43 PM   #127
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Default Re: Change of banning rules debate

Quote:
Originally Posted by Punky View Post
so the mod team should wait until all the mods will be on site to ban someone? i totally disagree, marv theres life, jobs, family and time zones.

i do think it should be a Resolution of at least half of the Mod/admin team.

if theres like 13 mods, 7 need to vote yes.
but i do think the number of mods voting isnt the issue and i doubt if a mod per ban a user without asking or talking to the admins/other mods b4 that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Time Violation View Post
In short, let's make a permaban next to impossible. If somebody really makes a "gravest discriminatory remarks or racist comments", I hope the first admin who comes online bans the user on the spot, no need to further waste everybody's time discussing it.
Quick to conclusions here. The user is banned on the spot so his ability to post is removed and his racist comment is taken out. But the decision for this ban to be permanent can be pending for the next 2 weeks as Mods decide on this outcome. If Mods decide on a x year long ban, the user's ability to come back will be memorized and his case will be evaluated after x years.



Also, as a proposition. Users coming back from a medium offense ban (as defined in MC's previous post - MC, please post that offense separative post here) should be banned for the maximum period if they commit the same offense within 1 month of their return on the forum. That surely constitutes as defiance to forum rules and should be severely punished.
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Old 03-29-2013, 12:59 PM   #128
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Default Re: Change of banning rules debate

You guys are trying to complicate simple things way too hard. If I were a mod I think I would rather simply quit, than go through calculation tables, and then through several verification processes every time I need to decide something. And all that because some mug couldn't keep his big mouth shut. Certainly wouldn't vote for that.
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Old 03-29-2013, 01:04 PM   #129
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Default Re: Change of banning rules debate

Quote:
Originally Posted by Time Violation View Post
You guys are trying to complicate simple things way too hard. If I were a mod I think I would rather simply quit, than go through calculation tables, and then through several verification processes every time I need to decide something. And all that because some mug couldn't keep his big mouth shut. Certainly wouldn't vote for that.
so much truble...

ppl should behave and hut up and not offend others with Discriminatory and racist comments, if they cant do that they should be ban.

im sorry if it looks harsh and im all for fun and games but theres a big line of that and we know this
so much threads and talks when the simple answer is JUST BEHAVE, act in here as u will wish ppl will talk to in online and in the RLW
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Old 03-29-2013, 01:33 PM   #130
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Default Re: Change of banning rules debate

If it's too hard to Moderate, someone with the skill to moderate this should be appointed to Mod. I would gladly apply for the position under these circumstances. I assure you that my Excel background and my mathematical knowledge will cover this nicely, as would Lenders' skill and MC's knowledge. But this will not really be the case, and when people say "it's too hard, we're comfortable the way it is" rather than accept change, I will gladly leave such a community.
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Old 03-29-2013, 01:47 PM   #131
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Default Re: Change of banning rules debate

Lenders to be a mod? Tell me you are kidding
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Old 03-29-2013, 02:10 PM   #132
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Default Re: Change of banning rules debate

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Originally Posted by Time Violation View Post
Lenders to be a mod? Tell me you are kidding
Obviously nobody would jump to the conclusion of naming new Mods right now. Was just giving off a few examples. And playing a little psychology. Notice how the mention of Lenders' name has basically blocked the rest of my post.
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Old 03-29-2013, 02:14 PM   #133
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Default Re: Change of banning rules debate

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slasher1985 View Post
I do feel hunted despite the fact that I have never broken any rule on this forum. I feel that if tomorrow, Mods would decide that they wanna silence me, they will decide that anything I post is either racist or an insult to someone. It doesn't take much to do so. After that it's easy, because they can feed on my anger and goad me into making more infractions. And I know this is not correct, but I feel it. It's a feeling that this rule causes.
I correlate to that feeling.
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Originally Posted by SloKid View Post
With all due respect, that is absolute rubbish.

How exactly do you feel hunted? And if you ever end up getting infractions because of "your anger", then surely that's not the moderators' fault, is it? It's almost like you're already blaming the moderators and deflecting the blame for any future outbursts you have. I find that baffling.
I do feel hunted because I know if I had said yesterday what I really thought, in at least one post there would have been something that could have been called "moderator bashing". And you can believe me, I would have loved to bash the moderators, but not because Feldman was permabanned (I knew that would happen sooner or later, but because of the rubbish the mods call "discriminatory remark". If the post he was banned for was a disc remark, every exaggeration could count as disc remark.
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Originally Posted by The Bulldog View Post
Exactly, not only do I want stricter moderation, I want consistency and transparency with as much of the moderators' actions as possible. Yes, they will get it wrong sometimes, but there's no doubt that they could do a better job than they are doing now.
consistency and transparency, yes, that's what I want too, but I think that will happen on Saint Never.

Btw, the GREATEST move ever to put this thread there where nobody sees it anymore. The mods obviously want to have the discussion ended as fast as possible.
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Old 03-29-2013, 02:23 PM   #134
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Default Re: Change of banning rules debate

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Originally Posted by Slasher1985 View Post
Obviously nobody would jump to the conclusion of naming new Mods right now. Was just giving off a few examples. And playing a little psychology. Notice how the mention of Lenders' name has basically blocked the rest of my post.
Well, you kind a lost of your credibility there. Anyway, as for the rest of your post: no, I don't think the moderation should require a math or Excel whiz. Good grasp of common sense and good knowledge of the forum that is being moderated should be enough. If it's not enough, then something is very wrong.
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Old 03-29-2013, 02:32 PM   #135
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Default Re: Change of banning rules debate

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slasher1985 View Post
After taking into account what the forum can actually do in terms of options, I have come to this "more-strict" "devoid of permanent" schema:

Code:
Offense                        
Extreme racist remarks	       1 year at first red; 
                               2 years with each additional red
Discriminatory remarks         6 months at first red; 
                               1 year at second red; 
                               2 years with each additional red
Wishing injury                 3 months at first red; 
                               4 months at second red; 
                               6 months at third red; 
                               1 year at fourth red; 
                               2 years with each additional red
Wishing death                  3 months at first red;  
                               6 months at second red; 
                               1 year at third red; 
                               2 years with each additional red
Uttering threats               2 months at first red;  
                               4 months at second red; 
                               6 months at third red; 
                               1 year at fourth red; 
                               2 years with each additional red
Multiple accounts              6 months at first red; 
                               1 year at second red; 
                               2 years with each additional red
Harassment                     1 month at first red;  
                               2 months at second red; 
                               4 months at third red;   
                               6 months at fourth red; 
                               1 year with each additional red
Violation of privacy           2 months at first red; 
                               4 months at second red;   
                               6 months at third red; 
                               1 year with each additional red
Moderator bashing              2 weeks at first red;  
                               3 weeks at second red;
                               1 month at third red;
                               2 months at fourth red; 
                               4 months at fifth red;   
                               6 months with each additional red
Porn/Inappropriate images      2 weeks at first red;  
                               3 weeks at second red;
                               1 month at third red;
                               2 months at fourth red; 
                               4 months at fifth red;   
                               6 months with each additional red
Signature rule violation       1 week at first red;  
                               2 weeks at second red;
                               3 weeks at third red;
                               1 month at fourth red; 
                               2 months at fifth red;   
                               3 months with each additional red
Editing a mod's changes        1 week at first red;  
                               2 weeks at second red;
                               3 weeks at third red;
                               1 month at fourth red; 
                               2 months at fifth red;   
                               4 months with each additional red
Posting for banned member      1 week at first red;  
                               2 weeks at second red;
                               3 weeks at third red;
                               1 month at fourth red; 
                               2 months at fifth red;   
                               4 months with each additional red
Personal attack                5 days at first red;  
                               10 days at second red;
                               3 weeks at third red;
                               1 month at fourth red; 
                               2 months at fifth red;   
                               3 months with each additional red
Inappropriate language         5 days at first red;  
                               10 days at second red;
                               3 weeks at third red;
                               1 month at fourth red; 
                               2 months at fifth red;   
                               3 months with each additional red
Forum disruptions              3 days at first red;  
                               7 days at second red;
                               10 days at third red;
                               3 weeks at fourth red; 
                               1 month at fifth red;   
                               2 months with each additional red
Baiting                        3 days at first red;  
                               7 days at second red;
                               10 days at third red;
                               3 weeks at fourth red; 
                               1 month at fifth red;   
                               2 months with each additional red
Trolling                       2 days at first red;  
                               4 days at second red;
                               6 days at third red;
                               10 days at fourth red; 
                               3 weeks at fifth red;   
                               1 month with each additional red
Doping Allegetions             3 days at first red;  
                               7 days at second red;
                               10 days at third red;
                               3 weeks at fourth red; 
                               1 month at fifth red;   
                               2 months with each additional red
Match Fixing Allegations       3 days at first red;  
                               7 days at second red;
                               10 days at third red;
                               3 weeks at fourth red; 
                               1 month at fifth red;   
                               2 months with each additional red
Great proposed schema, I like it. But to be honest, IMO, an exception should be made with porn/inappropriate pics and videos. It should be a permabannable offence, right from the first strike. It is a serious issue among the neutral community. There should be zero tolerance for it for any website that doesn't relate to the topic of porn, etc. People come here to talk about tennis and other miscellaneous topics. If they want to look at porn, they can look it up themselves at their own discretion.

That should also include any word-written posts that suggest this notion (particularly if it crosses the line) - take Filo V.'s sexually-suggestive and revealing posts as an obvious example. I myself was not only put off, I was also worried about the welfare of others here; particularly women, as well as parents and kids here browsing. Regardless of the nature of the pornographic post, ie. heterosexual, homosexual or bisexual, a severe penalty should be applied. Although I suppose with this type of offence, it deserves at least a few strikes since it doesn't get straight to the point (ie. not everyone would read or notice it), compared to an image or a video. Still, it's just as bad.
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