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Old 03-20-2013, 03:38 PM   #16
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Default Re: Whole Foods Vows to Label GMO’s by 2018

Quote:
Originally Posted by vucina View Post
Wow, you are so open minded. Congrats. You should try some of those shit burgers. They have what steaks have: proteins, carbohydrates, fats and minerals. It's all the same.

Bon appetit.

just because you are too stupid to understand genetic research doesn't mean it's bad.

Your irrelevant video has nothing to do with GM but food processing which is a different topic. Stay on topic.


here is a dumbed down children's version:

GMO isn't magic. You use a laboratory instead of breeding to generate a superior specimen.

Before GM you simply grew thousands of plants, hoped for a favorable mutation, took the mutant plants and breed them and hope to get that favorable mutation in the off-spring. Repeat.

It was slow but over time you get superior specimen and all or normal seeds today are actually the result of this slow genetic manipulation. If we used the wild versions that existed thousands of years ago of wheat, corn etc we'd get shit harvests and worldwide hunger.


Now, thanks to science, we can cheat nature. You don't like it or don't understand it? Fine.

Should we label GMO? Sure why not. Just like we should label meat made from other protein like your turds so vegeterarians that don't want meat can buy them.


Are you happy then? No probably not because big evil Monsanto killed your cat or something. But don't channel that hate on working science you clearly don't understand anyway.
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Old 03-20-2013, 04:12 PM   #17
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Default Re: Whole Foods Vows to Label GMO’s by 2018

Quote:
Originally Posted by MaxPower View Post
just because you are too stupid to understand genetic research doesn't mean it's bad.

Your irrelevant video has nothing to do with GM but food processing which is a different topic. Stay on topic.


here is a dumbed down children's version:

GMO isn't magic. You use a laboratory instead of breeding to generate a superior specimen.

Before GM you simply grew thousands of plants, hoped for a favorable mutation, took the mutant plants and breed them and hope to get that favorable mutation in the off-spring. Repeat.

It was slow but over time you get superior specimen and all or normal seeds today are actually the result of this slow genetic manipulation. If we used the wild versions that existed thousands of years ago of wheat, corn etc we'd get shit harvests and worldwide hunger.


Now, thanks to science, we can cheat nature. You don't like it or don't understand it? Fine.

Should we label GMO? Sure why not. Just like we should label meat made from other protein like your turds so vegeterarians that don't want meat can buy them.


Are you happy then? No probably not because big evil Monsanto killed your cat or something. But don't channel that hate on working science you clearly don't understand anyway.
Mice were fed genetically modified potatoes.

Quote:
The organs of rats who ate genetically modified potatoes showed signs of chronic wasting, and female rates fed a diet of herbicide-resistant soybeans gave birth to stunted and sterile pups
According to your theories the stomach would break down the food normally and no difference would be found.

Commom sense won't work here, you have to read up and don't use your own ideas.
There's people much smarter than you with actual results of lab experiments to back them up.

Don't bother other posters with demeaning posts, especially when you have little knowledge what your talking about.

Post some links that back up your claims is the best way.

GMO's haven't been tested enough:

Quote:
The American Academy of Environmental Medicine (AAEM) urges doctors to prescribe non-GMO diets for all patients. They cite animal studies showing organ damage, gastrointestinal and immune system disorders, accelerated aging, and infertility. Human studies show how genetically modified (GM) food can leave material behind inside us, possibly causing long-term problems. Genes inserted into GM soy, for example, can transfer into the DNA of bacteria living inside us, and that the toxic insecticide produced by GM corn was found in the blood of pregnant women and their unborn fetuses.

Numerous health problems increased after GMOs were introduced in 1996. The percentage of Americans with three or more chronic illnesses jumped from 7% to 13% in just 9 years; food allergies skyrocketed, and disorders such as autism, reproductive disorders, digestive problems, and others are on the rise. Although there is not sufficient research to confirm that GMOs are a contributing factor, doctors groups such as the AAEM tell us not to wait before we start protecting ourselves, and especially our children who are most at risk.

The American Public Health Association and American Nurses Association are among many medical groups that condemn the use of GM bovine growth hormone, because the milk from treated cows has more of the hormone IGF-1 (insulin-like growth factor 1)―which is linked to cancer.
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Old 03-20-2013, 04:24 PM   #18
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Default Re: Whole Foods Vows to Label GMO’s by 2018

Quote:
Originally Posted by MaxPower View Post
just because you are too stupid to understand genetic research doesn't mean it's bad.

Your irrelevant video has nothing to do with GM but food processing which is a different topic. Stay on topic.


here is a dumbed down children's version:

GMO isn't magic. You use a laboratory instead of breeding to generate a superior specimen.

Before GM you simply grew thousands of plants, hoped for a favorable mutation, took the mutant plants and breed them and hope to get that favorable mutation in the off-spring. Repeat.

It was slow but over time you get superior specimen and all or normal seeds today are actually the result of this slow genetic manipulation. If we used the wild versions that existed thousands of years ago of wheat, corn etc we'd get shit harvests and worldwide hunger.


Now, thanks to science, we can cheat nature. You don't like it or don't understand it? Fine.

Should we label GMO? Sure why not. Just like we should label meat made from other protein like your turds so vegeterarians that don't want meat can buy them.


Are you happy then? No probably not because big evil Monsanto killed your cat or something. But don't channel that hate on working science you clearly don't understand anyway.
Listen, you little shit-eater, I said let's ignore the health consequences, just answer how will we avoid monopoly on seed and political blackmail derived from that monopoly?
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Old 03-20-2013, 05:46 PM   #19
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Default Re: Whole Foods Vows to Label GMO’s by 2018

Quote:
Originally Posted by swisht4u View Post
Mice were fed genetically modified potatoes.



According to your theories the stomach would break down the food normally and no difference would be found.

Commom sense won't work here, you have to read up and don't use your own ideas.
There's people much smarter than you with actual results of lab experiments to back them up.

Don't bother other posters with demeaning posts, especially when you have little knowledge what your talking about.

Post some links that back up your claims is the best way.

GMO's haven't been tested enough:

Learn to read. Genetic manipulation is a method.

If you create dangerous GMOs they will be dangerous.

You can create potatoes that generate toxic and kill people. You can create rice that gives cancer. You could create anything. But it's not the genes but the product itself that gives those effects.

For example they have made many plants that produce pesticides (in themselves) or are resistant to pesticides meaning they could store up concentrations that would kill all normal plants. If that pesticide would harm living creatures then HELL YES THAT PLANT WOULD BE DANGEROUS TO EAT.

That's why there are careful regulations both in EU and in US about GMOs. They have to be proven safe to be allowed. In EU all GMO products or products produced with GMOs should be labeled. In US they aren't labeled, but still regulated.


Besides GMOs aren't "new". It's been around over 10 years. People have eaten countless tons of soya beans, corn, rice and you name it that is grown from GMO seeds. Shouldn't we have millions of deaths then and mutated children?

90% of scientists if not more agree that they are safe. If you have a minority researcher that makes some biased experiments and end up with his desired result it doesn't change the scientific consensus. It's like saying that the the sun revolves around the earth because 100 scientists said that even if a million scientists say that's not true.


You have to understand that it's not me that has to prove anything here. GMOs are used all over the world and judged safe. If you, an organization or anyone else wants to ban GMOs then you should worry more about all the thousands upon thousands of experiments where mice have been fed GMOs with no effects whatsoever simply because those were safe and well-crafted products.

Now of course since countries and organizations weren't retarded we have used GMOs for over a decade now so we have a gigantic human trial going on as well...you'd better hope the scientific majority didn't screw up
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Old 03-20-2013, 05:50 PM   #20
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Default Re: Whole Foods Vows to Label GMO’s by 2018

Quote:
Originally Posted by vucina View Post
Listen, you little shit-eater, I said let's ignore the health consequences, just answer how will we avoid monopoly on seed and political blackmail derived from that monopoly?
Regulation. It's no different than any other business. EU has used regulations and fines to prevent microsoft from growing to powerful among other examples.

The same can be used if Monsanto becomes to powerful and has to much of the market and start to blackmail local producers.

But thing is all Monsantos GMO products are on patents. Patents expire. Already in 2014 some key patents of Monsanto expire (think it was concerning soya-beans). That allows any producers to sell seeds with the very same properties and Monsanto cannot do a thing about it. Their hope would be to trust in R&D to develop another super-product that can be a cashcow for them until that patent also expires.

In a system like that we at least get constant innovation and constantly better and better seeds. You'd be surprised how much food you can grow with modern seeds compared to just a few decades ago. With the population increase going out of hand we'll need it because we sure as hell aren't getting more land.
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Old 03-20-2013, 06:41 PM   #21
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Default Re: Whole Foods Vows to Label GMO’s by 2018

I expect the tinfoil-hat crowd who believe we should be cautious and stop all GMOs because they "haven't been tested for long enough" to be coherent abstain from using mobile phones as well, as they haven't been tested for long enough and some fringe research claims they can cause cancer and whatnot. Probably it's a good idea to turn off your wi-fi also, these damn electromagnetic waves are dangerous.
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Old 03-20-2013, 07:58 PM   #22
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Default Re: Whole Foods Vows to Label GMO’s by 2018

Quote:
Originally Posted by MaxPower View Post
Learn to read. Genetic manipulation is a method.
Most people know this. Very good.

If you create dangerous GMOs they will be dangerous.
They don't know if they've created dangerous GMO's.
Research has been hidden but leaked out about dangers. Did you know this?


You can create potatoes that generate toxic and kill people. You can create rice that gives cancer. You could create anything. But it's not the genes but the product itself that gives those effects.

For example they have made many plants that produce pesticides (in themselves) or are resistant to pesticides meaning they could store up concentrations that would kill all normal plants. If that pesticide would harm living creatures then HELL YES THAT PLANT WOULD BE DANGEROUS TO EAT.

That's why there are careful regulations both in EU and in US about GMOs. They have to be proven safe to be allowed. In EU all GMO products or products produced with GMOs should be labeled. In US they aren't labeled, but still regulated.

That's the topic of the thread, some don't trust them as yet so want to at least have labelling so they can make a choice.

Besides GMOs aren't "new". It's been around over 10 years. People have eaten countless tons of soya beans, corn, rice and you name it that is grown from GMO seeds. Shouldn't we have millions of deaths then and mutated children?

Not necessarily, the effects aren't always just people dropping over dead.
You can live without noticing effects and pass them on to offspring, no one knows.



90% of scientists if not more agree that they are safe. If you have a minority researcher that makes some biased experiments and end up with his desired result it doesn't change the scientific consensus. It's like saying that the the sun revolves around the earth because 100 scientists said that even if a million scientists say that's not true.

90% of the scientists are working on other areas, but how many are on Monsanto's payroll or receive subsidies from them?
Money is a powerfull motivator.
Just look at all the drugs that were 'safe' by general consensus. Hidden data, manipulated data.
90% of scientists don't have the actual data, the data is guarded by Monsanto.



You have to understand that it's not me that has to prove anything here. GMOs are used all over the world and judged safe. If you, an organization or anyone else wants to ban GMOs then you should worry more about all the thousands upon thousands of experiments where mice have been fed GMOs with no effects whatsoever simply because those were safe and well-crafted products.

You don't have to prove anything, that's true, and you haven't made a good point as yet either.

Monsanto will not release their raw data to be interpreted by scientists, they will release their interpretation of the raw data.
Scientists have said that Monsanto is using humans as test subjects, they were employees of Monsanto.
This happened years ago.



Now of course since countries and organizations weren't retarded we have used GMOs for over a decade now so we have a gigantic human trial going on as well...you'd better hope the scientific majority didn't screw up
I don't want to get into a detailed argument, that wasn't my purpose.
It was more to make others aware of the situation. If you find that there is no reason for alarm that is up to you.
I won't see my bank account get any larger for winning an argument and I won't sleep better either.
At least you took some time to look over the concern.

Related problems are the pesticides needed to grow GMO's, it's been reported that some severe threats to the natural habitat is the result.

Another problem is the small farmers as far away as India are going out of business because of the high cost of GMO seeds and pesticides they use called 'roundup'.

Then there are Monsamto agents checking farms, if they find GMO products on farmers land they sue them, sometimes to no fault of the farmer.
The GMO are spreading and it isn't known if they can be contained.

These seeds fall on the ground everywhere. Plants have mutations, instead of one ear of corn on a branch sometimes there are three.
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Old 03-21-2013, 12:04 PM   #23
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Default Re: Whole Foods Vows to Label GMO’s by 2018

Quote:
Originally Posted by vucina View Post
Wow, you are so open minded. Congrats. You should try some of those shit burgers. They have what steaks have: proteins, carbohydrates, fats and minerals. It's all the same.



Bon appetit.
Cretin.
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Old 03-21-2013, 01:33 PM   #24
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Default Re: Whole Foods Vows to Label GMO’s by 2018

Quote:
Originally Posted by swisht4u View Post
I don't want to get into a detailed argument, that wasn't my purpose.
It was more to make others aware of the situation. If you find that there is no reason for alarm that is up to you.
I won't see my bank account get any larger for winning an argument and I won't sleep better either.
At least you took some time to look over the concern.

Related problems are the pesticides needed to grow GMO's, it's been reported that some severe threats to the natural habitat is the result.

Another problem is the small farmers as far away as India are going out of business because of the high cost of GMO seeds and pesticides they use called 'roundup'.

Then there are Monsamto agents checking farms, if they find GMO products on farmers land they sue them, sometimes to no fault of the farmer.
The GMO are spreading and it isn't known if they can be contained.

These seeds fall on the ground everywhere. Plants have mutations, instead of one ear

of corn on a branch sometimes there are three.

The GMO situation is definitely not without problems. Not denying that. But we cannot only discuss negative effects without considering the huge benefits of using superior seeds. Millions have been saved from starvation due to food programs from richer countries. That had been impossible without the increased agricultural output.

Also I went to Monsantos homepage and noticed that they sell over 4000 types of vegetable seeds developed with conventional breeding. Many of them cheap and extremly good quality. I'm not a farmer but I don't see why a farmer couldn't buy conventional seeds from breeding, if they want to.

The reason GMO products often are more expensive is that it's very costly research to develop some of the abilities those seeds have, for example that they are resistant to drought, grow faster etc.


Just like other business in the 3rd world can't buy top notch materials because of cost maybe their farmers cannot buy the very best seeds either. Is that a GMO problem? no more of an economical problem.

Superior technology in the US and Europe has allowed farmers to grow such insanely cheap and good products that it dumped world market prizes making it very hard to compete for poor farmers in the third world without good machines, pesticides, seeds, infrastructure and you name it. That's a HUGE PROBLEM and has created out of control debt in many already poor countries because they get awful trade balance having to import without being able to sell much themselves on the international market.


Then we are in a situation where the rich would have to give away science and technology for free to level the playing field, for example giving GMO seeds for free or to reduced cost so farmers in India and Africa can become more competitive.
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Old 03-23-2013, 04:38 AM   #25
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Default Re: Whole Foods Vows to Label GMO’s by 2018

“Monsanto should not have to vouchsafe the safety of biotech food. Our interest is in selling as much of it as possible. Assuring its safety is the FDA’s job.”
- Phil Angell, Monsanto Director of Corporate Communications



Meet Monsanto's Number One Lobbyist: Barack Obama

During his 2008 campaign for president, Barack Obama transmitted signals that he understood the GMO issue. Several key anti-GMO activists were impressed. They thought Obama, once in the White House, would listen to their concerns and act on them.

These activists weren't just reading tea leaves. On the campaign trail, Obama said: "Let folks know when their food is genetically modified because Americans have a right to know what they're buying." Making the distinction between GMO and non-GMO was certainly an indication that Obama, unlike the FDA and USDA, saw there was an important line to draw in the sand. Beyond that, Obama was promising a new era of transparency in government. He was adamant in promising that if elected, his administration wouldn't do business "the old way." He would be "responsive to people's needs."

Then came the reality.

After the election and during Obama's term as president, people who had been working to label GMO food and warn the public of its huge dangers were shocked to the core. They saw Obama had been pulling a bait and switch. The new president filled key posts with Monsanto people in federal agencies that wield tremendous force in food issues - the USDA and the FDA:

- At the USDA as director of the National Institute of Food and Agriculture, Roger Beachy, former director of the Monsanto Danforth Center.

- As deputy commissioner of the FDA, the new food-safety-issues czar, the infamous Michael Taylor, former vice-president for public policy for Monsanto. Taylor had been instrumental in getting approval for Monsanto's genetically engineered bovine growth hormone.

- As commissioner of the USDA, Iowa governor, Tom Vilsack. Vilsack had set up a national group, the Governors' Biotechnology Partnership, and had been given a Governor of the Year Award by the Biotechnology Industry Organization, whose members include Monsanto.

- As the new Agriculture Trade Representative, who would push GMOs for export, Islam Siddiqui, a former Monsanto lobbyist.

- As the new counsel for the USDA, Ramona Romero, who had been corporate counsel for another biotech giant, DuPont.

- As the new head of the USAID, Rajiv Shah, who had previously worked in key positions for the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation, a major funder of GMO agriculture research.

- Obama nominated Elena Kagan to the US Supreme Court. Kagan, as federal solicitor general, had previously argued for Monsanto in the Monsanto v. Geertson seed case before the Supreme Court.

- We should also remember that Obama's secretary of state, Hillary Clinton, once worked for the Rose law firm. That firm was counsel to Monsanto.

The deck was stacked. Obama hadn't simply made honest mistakes. Obama hadn't just failed to exercise proper oversight in selecting appointees. He wasn't just experiencing a failure of short-term memory. He was staking out territory on behalf of Monsanto and other GMO corporate giants.

And now let us look at what key Obama appointees have wrought for their true bosses. Let's see what GMO crops have walked through the open door of the Obama presidency.

Monsanto GMO alfalfa.
Monsanto GMO sugar beets.
Monsanto GMO Bt soybean.
Coming soon: Monsanto's GMO sweet corn.
Syngenta GMO corn for ethanol.
Syngenta GMO stacked corn.
Pioneer GMO soybean.
Syngenta GMO Bt cotton.
Bayer GMO cotton.
ATryn, an anti-clotting agent from the milk of transgenic goats.
A GMO papaya strain.
And perhaps, soon, genetically engineered salmon and apples.

This is an extraordinary parade. In fact, it makes Barack Obama the most GMO-dedicated politician in America. You don't attain that position through errors or oversights. Obama was all along a stealth operative on behalf of Monsanto, biotech, GMOs, and corporate control of the future of agriculture.
From this perspective, Michelle Obama's campaign for home gardens and clean nutritious food suddenly looks like a diversion, a cover story floated to obscure what her husband has actually been doing. Nor does it seem coincidental that two of the Obama's biggest supporters, Bill Gates and George Soros, purchased 900,000 and 500,000 shares of Monsanto, respectively, in 2010.

Because this is an election season, people will say, "But what about Romney? Is he any better?" I see no indication that he is. The point, however, is that we are talking about a sitting president here, a president who presented himself and was believed by many to be an extraordinary departure from politics as usual. Not only was that the wrong assessment, Obama was lying all along. He was, and still is Monsanto's man in Washington.
http://www.naturalnews.com/037310_ba..._lobbyist.html


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Old 03-24-2013, 12:25 PM   #26
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Default Re: Whole Foods Vows to Label GMO’s by 2018

I realize that this is on the other end of the spectrum but still :

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/NaturalNews
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Old 03-24-2013, 04:45 PM   #27
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Default Re: Whole Foods Vows to Label GMO’s by 2018

^for those who prefer to be spoon-fed via the msm....

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/author...=jeffrey-smith
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Old 03-24-2013, 05:06 PM   #28
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Default

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GMO = good thing, enables us to produce more food with less resources, a thing that we will need when the world population increases
No we need population control not keep overcrowding the planet and forcing genetically modified crap down our throats. I for one would rather pay twice more for my food rather than eat that crap.


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Old 03-24-2013, 05:28 PM   #29
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Default Re: Whole Foods Vows to Label GMO’s by 2018

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Originally Posted by allpro View Post
^for those who prefer to be spoon-fed via the msm....

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/author...=jeffrey-smith
I prefer to be "spoonfed" by science, reason and peer reviewed articles . I know that some of you religious types aren't that familiar with these concepts and prefer to gravitate towards eloquent speakers but I would suggest that you'd actually study your topics. These speakers you're trusting have no academic qualifications whatsoever and have been critized for that (from Wikipedia):

Quote:
However, journalist Michael Specter, writing in The New Yorker, reported that Smith was presented as a "scientist" in the Dr. Oz TV show although he has "no experience in genetics or agriculture, and has no scientific degree from any institution". Specter cites academics who assert that Smith is unqualified to impart health information about GMOs, as "his only professional experience prior to taking up his crusade against biotechnology is as a ballroom-dance teacher, yogic flying instructor, and political candidate for the Maharishi cult’s natural-law party."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeffrey_M._Smith

And here's the link to Specter's article: http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2...urrentPage=all

Of course, we can also cite some academics:

Quote:
The widely-quoted author of two self-published books on GM foods, Jeffrey Smith claims to be an expert on biotech agriculture. He has gained international visibility by making sensational claims against the technology that are not only unsound, but contradicted by years of peer-reviewed data and scientific experience. Click here for a point-by-point analysis of Smith’s claims by Academics Review.
http://academicsreview.org/2010/02/j...ed-by-science/
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Old 03-24-2013, 06:02 PM   #30
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Default Re: Whole Foods Vows to Label GMO’s by 2018

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lopez View Post
I prefer to be "spoonfed" by science, reason and peer reviewed articles . I know that some of you religious types aren't that familiar with these concepts and prefer to gravitate towards eloquent speakers but I would suggest that you'd actually study your topics. These speakers you're trusting have no academic qualifications whatsoever and have been critized for that (from Wikipedia):



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeffrey_M._Smith

And here's the link to Specter's article: http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2...urrentPage=all

Of course, we can also cite some academics:



http://academicsreview.org/2010/02/j...ed-by-science/
if the safety of gm foods is conclusive, then why the collusion between the FDA, USDA and Monsanto/biotech? and why are they spending millions to block labeling? it’s the same revolving door as the banksters, the SEC, and the fed, and we’ve all seen what that’s wrought. it doesn’t take a genius to figure out what’s going on behind the scenes. just put two and two together.

Quote:
I know that some of you religious types aren't that familiar with these concepts and prefer to gravitate towards eloquent speakers but I would suggest that you'd actually study your topics.
what does religion have to do with this? or was that supposed to be some kind of silly dig? stick to the topic.
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