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Old 03-07-2013, 06:25 AM   #61
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Default Re: Hugo Chavez dies of cancer

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Originally Posted by rocketassist View Post
That's why Jimmy Carter and several neutral observers declared the elections free and fair then

Venezuela's media was very critical of Chavez. He does not manipulate and control TV/media like the tedious right-wing republican parrots would have you believe.
Not the best way you can defend him ...

First, Carter is a prick if I've ever seen one

Second, here in Europe, we have supposedly free TV media (free meaning free from state control) and the result is, they're degrading people shit pop shows and keep lying about anything, more particularly foreign policy.

Third, here in Europe we also supposedly have free and fair elections, and true democracies. And these democracies have kept sinking us down for 30 years. I am questioning the good of democracy. At least democracy alone is not sufficient. A good dictatorship is more than a bad democracy.

Those Westerners defending democracy at all cost, democracy and nothing but democracy/democratic institutions are affluents who strictly wish keep their privileges and don't give a damn if there are beggars at each street corner of their city.


By the way I would like to have a left-winger's opinion on UNASUR. Because that, for me, kills everything about Chavez !
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Old 03-07-2013, 07:21 AM   #62
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Default Re: Hugo Chavez dies of cancer

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Not the best way you can defend him ...

First, Carter is a prick if I've ever seen one

Second, here in Europe, we have supposedly free TV media (free meaning free from state control) and the result is, they're degrading people shit pop shows and keep lying about anything, more particularly foreign policy.

Third, here in Europe we also supposedly have free and fair elections, and true democracies. And these democracies have kept sinking us down for 30 years.
I am questioning the good of democracy. At least democracy alone is not sufficient. A good dictatorship is more than a bad democracy.

Those Westerners defending democracy at all cost, democracy and nothing but democracy/democratic institutions are affluents who strictly wish keep their privileges and don't give a damn if there are beggars at each street corner of their city.


By the way I would like to have a left-winger's opinion on UNASUR. Because that, for me, kills everything about Chavez !
What? In what universe? Do you have any idea how GDP/capita has developed through the years in Europe?

And if UNASUR is anything like the EU, it's a good thing, at least economically
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Old 03-07-2013, 10:16 AM   #63
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Default Re: Hugo Chavez dies of cancer

guy kicked out yank influences and capital from venezuela and got horrible PR from that, obvious thing

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Old 03-07-2013, 10:25 AM   #64
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Default Re: Hugo Chavez dies of cancer

por qué no te callas
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Old 03-07-2013, 11:49 AM   #65
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Default Re: Hugo Chavez dies of cancer

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Originally Posted by Kat_YYZ View Post
Good grief I would give up pop and Big Macs for free healthcare any day. It's fortunate that I can have both, but I would if it came down to it. geez, get some perspective.

And while we're on the subject of freedom and junk food, why can't I bring my own food to the movie theatre, or to a Leafs game? Where's my freedom to not pay $10 for a hot dog at the Air Canada Centre?

Oh now you will say "that's not the government making those rules."
But to me, one big brother is the same as another.
I think this is being ridiculous. You do have freedom not to pay $10 at the Air Canada Centre. If you don't like it, don't go, it is simple.
I may as well ask where is my freedom not to have to sit in a cinema beside someone eating a smelly hamburger?


I have lots of perspective. Healthcare in Cuba is free, but there isn't any healthcare as you would define healthcare. I have lots of experience and can assure you, you would be appalled if you saw how Cubans are treated in hospitals. And, speaking of "free", do you really think that a government that pays its most educated citizens $20/month is providing something "free"?
When you have spent some time being treated in Cuban hospitals, come back and tell me how good their system is.
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Old 03-07-2013, 11:51 AM   #66
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Default Re: Hugo Chavez dies of cancer

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Originally Posted by fran70 View Post
Why dont you go to live to Cuba if you like their system so much?
It will be easier/closer for me to move accross the andes to argentina right after the great Señora K. transforms the nation into a socialist haven for all south americans. i'll be ready and happy to reap the benefits of our argentinian brothers then

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Old 03-07-2013, 11:53 AM   #67
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Default Re: Hugo Chavez dies of cancer

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Originally Posted by Punky View Post
Funny I say it, I was wondering for years why can't I bring my own food to the movies and a few months ago they pass a law in here that u can bring whatever u want to the movies, any food whatever however.
I hope it will be all over the world bc it's crazy to pay so much for Cc and a candy
Again, I rarely go to the movies anymore because of all the yobbos who think the cinema is a place to eat noisily and annoy the other patrons. I would pay extra to go to a cinema that banned all food.
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Old 03-07-2013, 11:57 AM   #68
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Default Re: Hugo Chavez dies of cancer

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Originally Posted by Kat_YYZ View Post
Good grief I would give up pop and Big Macs for free healthcare any day. It's fortunate that I can have both, but I would if it came down to it. geez, get some perspective.
That is hardly his/her point, I think. Obviously one would never pick fast food over free health care. It was just an example (IMO a good one) of the consequences of some socialist regimens.

Besides, it's easy to say that health care is free in Cuba, but if you were there and had a health problem would you choose to go to one of their public hospitals? I can assure you I wouldn't.

Quote:
And while we're on the subject of freedom and junk food, why can't I bring my own food to the movie theatre, or to a Leafs game? Where's my freedom to not pay $10 for a hot dog at the Air Canada Centre?

Oh now you will say "that's not the government making those rules."
But to me, one big brother is the same as another.
Well this is absurd, but it doesn't happen here. I can bring whatever food I wish to the movie theater. But really, I don't think this is a fair comparison.
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Old 03-07-2013, 12:04 PM   #69
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Default Re: Hugo Chavez dies of cancer

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Originally Posted by buddyholly View Post
I think this is being ridiculous. You do have freedom not to pay $10 at the Air Canada Centre. If you don't like it, don't go, it is simple.
I may as well ask where is my freedom not to have to sit in a cinema beside someone eating a smelly hamburger?


I have lots of perspective. Healthcare in Cuba is free, but there isn't any healthcare as you would define healthcare. I have lots of experience and can assure you, you would be appalled if you saw how Cubans are treated in hospitals. And, speaking of "free", do you really think that a government that pays its most educated citizens $20/month is providing something "free"?
When you have spent some time being treated in Cuban hospitals, come back and tell me how good their system is.
Quote:
Life expectancy at birth in Cuba in 1955 was 63 years.[21] In 1960 it was 63.9 years.[22] To put these values in context, life expectancy at birth in some other regions and countries in 1960 were as follows (World Bank data):
World, 50.18 years;
Latin America and Caribbean, 56.21 years;
high-income OECD countries, 69.01 years;
United States, 69.77 years.[23]

In 2007, the life expectancies at birth were as follows (World Bank data):
Cuba, 78.26 years;
World, 68.76 years;
Latin America and Caribbean, 73.13 years;
high income OECD countries, 79.66 years;
United States, 77.99 years.[24]

The mortality rate for children under five years old was 54 per 1000 in Cuba in 1960 (World Bank).[25] That year in Latin America and the Caribbean it was 154.66 per 1000; in the high-income OECD countries it was 43.11; in the United States, 30.2. No World datum is available for 1960, but for 1970 it was 145.67 per 1000 (all World Bank data).[24]

The mortality rates for children under five in 2007 were as follows (World Bank):
Cuba, 6.5;
World, 68.01;
Latin America and Caribbean, 26.37;
high-income OECD, 5.71;
United States, 7.60.[24]

Infant mortality was 32 per 1000 live births in Cuba in 1957.[26] In 2000-2005 it was 6.1 per 1000 in Cuba; and, for comparison, 6.8 per 1000 in the United States.[27] The 2007 infant mortality rates published by the World Health Organisation in 2009 were:
Cuba, 5;
World, 46;
High income countries, 6;
United States, 6.[28]

The table below shows CEPAL (United nations) data spanning the pre- and post-revolutionary periods for three public health indicators. Health levels were better than the Latin American average before the revolution and showed continued steady improvement throughout the post-revolutionary period. The total mortality rate shown is the crude – i.e., not age-adjusted – rate, and therefore tends to rise as the proportion of elderly people in the population increases, which has been the case in Cuba because the birth rate is falling and life expectancy is rising.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthcare_in_Cuba
So, in spite of the terrible healthcare conditions of the awful communist cuba, cubans still have a lower infant/children mortality and a higher life expectancy than the north americans living in the great and free capitalist conditions of the USA.
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Old 03-07-2013, 12:05 PM   #70
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Default Re: Hugo Chavez dies of cancer

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Besides, it's easy to say that health care is free in Cuba, but if you were there and had a health problem would you choose to go to one of their public hospitals? I can assure you I wouldn't.
This doesn't even make sense. all hospitals in cuba are public.
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Old 03-07-2013, 12:07 PM   #71
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Default Re: Hugo Chavez dies of cancer



vamos big mac and coke!
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Old 03-07-2013, 12:13 PM   #72
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Default Re: Hugo Chavez dies of cancer

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This doesn't even make sense. all hospitals in cuba are public.
You know what I mean. Would you go to the hospital where the common Cuban earning 20$ go? Because I wouldn't.

I have been to Cuba and the most amazing experience was talking to the locals and understanding how they live. I am not sure how you live, or if you have been there, but I wouldn't want to live like that.
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Old 03-07-2013, 12:20 PM   #73
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Default Re: Hugo Chavez dies of cancer

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Originally Posted by buddyholly View Post
I think this is being ridiculous. You do have freedom not to pay $10 at the Air Canada Centre. If you don't like it, don't go, it is simple.
I may as well ask where is my freedom not to have to sit in a cinema beside someone eating a smelly hamburger?


I have lots of perspective. Healthcare in Cuba is free, but there isn't any healthcare as you would define healthcare. I have lots of experience and can assure you, you would be appalled if you saw how Cubans are treated in hospitals. And, speaking of "free", do you really think that a government that pays its most educated citizens $20/month is providing something "free"?
When you have spent some time being treated in Cuban hospitals, come back and tell me how good their system is.
Did you see more unhappy people there compared to other countries?

I've been looking at some global happiness index charts and they confuse me... it seems they don't correlate with numbers of iPads, HDTVs, Coke consumption etc.

On the contrary it seems that Mexico and especially Caribbeans top the list

Can it really be possible? I occasionally deal with gold and silver coins...I'm so in love with my coins, how can you top THAT?
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Old 03-07-2013, 12:26 PM   #74
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Default Re: Hugo Chavez dies of cancer

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Did you see more unhappy people there compared to other countries?

I've been looking at some global happiness index charts and they confuse me... it seems they don't correlate with numbers of iPads, HDTVs, Coke consumption etc.

On the contrary it seems that Mexico and especially Caribbeans top the list

Can it realy be possible? I occassionally deal with gold and silver coins...I'm so in love with my coins, how can you top THAT?
Manipulation and brain washing? Also the simple fact that you get used to it?

Yes, Cubans are very happy, but that is mostly because they were born like that and raised to accept that life was like that.

Would you move there? To Cuba? And subject yourself to that lifestyle?
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Old 03-07-2013, 12:36 PM   #75
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Default Re: Hugo Chavez dies of cancer

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Originally Posted by arm View Post
Manipulation and brain washing? Also the simple fact that you get used to it?

Yes, Cubans are very happy, but that is mostly because they were born like that and raised to accept that life was like that.
you do realize the same could be said about the western lifestyle? except that, well, you can't convice people that they're happy.
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