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Old 03-15-2013, 10:28 PM   #316
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Default Re: Hugo Chavez dies of cancer

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Europeans and their descendants have held that shameful contempt for conquered peoples for far too long, and we should always have that in mind when we describe people like Chavez as clowns. .
If that was directed at me you should know by now that I would never use such juvenile appellations - except in the context of mocking abraxas for his monotonous overuse of the word.The difference is that he is serious.
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Old 03-16-2013, 01:00 AM   #317
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Default Re: Hugo Chavez dies of cancer

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If that was directed at me you should know by now that I would never use such juvenile appellations - except in the context of mocking abraxas for his monotonous overuse of the word.The difference is that he is serious.
honestly no, Chavez as a clown is a commonplace, established like a hard fact in mainstream western media. It was indeed hard not to think that Chavez was an idiot just watching that news...they chose to focus on his personal antics instead of the context and processes. So it was really a general remark directed to everyone, myself included.

For example, watching Timberlake, a celebrity and idol of many, doing his act, made me think about the times we live in. In the past people celebrated heroes or martyrs or something like that, now they celebrate prancing morons. I wonder if there is a single thing today worthy of a personal sacrifice.

I do enjoy this discussion, it's very interesting, as they say in the media "Chavez was a polarizing figure".
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Old 03-16-2013, 02:33 AM   #318
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Default Re: Hugo Chavez dies of cancer

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Originally Posted by ssin View Post
honestly no, Chavez as a clown is a commonplace, established like a hard fact in mainstream western media. It was indeed hard not to think that Chavez was an idiot just watching that news...they chose to focus on his personal antics instead of the context and processes. So it was really a general remark directed to everyone, myself included.

For example, watching Timberlake, a celebrity and idol of many, doing his act, made me think about the times we live in. In the past people celebrated heroes or martyrs or something like that, now they celebrate prancing morons. I wonder if there is a single thing today worthy of a personal sacrifice.

I do enjoy this discussion, it's very interesting, as they say in the media "Chavez was a polarizing figure".
But it would be difficult not to focus on his UN appearance where he demonstrated on the international stage that he was indeed a clown.
And yourself calling Timberlake a prancing moron makes me wonder why you then think it is disrespectful to call Chavez a clown.
He has shown himself to be a really good actor and comedian as well as singer. I would say a better entertainer than Chavez was a statesman.
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Old 03-16-2013, 10:27 AM   #319
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Default Re: Hugo Chavez dies of cancer

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Originally Posted by buddyholly View Post
But it would be difficult not to focus on his UN appearance where he demonstrated on the international stage that he was indeed a clown.
And yourself calling Timberlake a prancing moron makes me wonder why you then think it is disrespectful to call Chavez a clown.
He has shown himself to be a really good actor and comedian as well as singer. I would say a better entertainer than Chavez was a statesman.
Nothing really to wonder about, it's quite simple: Timberlake is there to entertain and be called names in the process, his job is exactly to be a fool, and he represents just himself. If I call him a prancing moron it has zero consequence, it's just my (bad?) taste but still appropriate. I suspect though that he is an errand boy who got a task to do that anyway, but I can't be sure.

On the other hand, Chavez represented an entire nation and his job was not to entertain, so his personal antics are not a priority, even if he was a clown of the highest order I would choose words to describe him (or rather his politics) because he got elected by popular vote, so calling him names would be a political statement against Venezuela. If he was a leader of a military junta or some kind of murderer, that would be something else, and I would probably be glad to resort to name-calling.

Not to mention that Chavez died just a few days ago, and Timberlake is alive and happy. If something like that happened to Timberlake I would never even think of saying something bad about him, on the contrary, I would probably admit that he was not a bad entertainer after all. As I said, his act would probably look entirely different, funny even if Chavez was alive. But he did it exactly because Chavez died. To me it was ugly, others can laugh but should remember that we will all die eventually. And people from the West take death much, much more seriously than people from Latin America. I like their attitude.



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After the segment was aired, people everywhere turned to social media to react, while some criticized the performance labeling it as offensive, others prized it consider to be bold and funny.
Bold and funny it was not, it would be bold but still not even close to funny if he did that during the funeral of Bush.

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Old 03-16-2013, 02:29 PM   #320
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Default Re: Hugo Chavez dies of cancer

I had only seen an excerpt on CNN until you posted the entire video. He did say that everything in the song was true, so he can hardly be accused of distortion.
And I have to say, his impersonation of Elton John was spot on.

The Mars quote prompted me to look up famous Chavez quotes. He was an outstanding example of bad taste, so I now find the Timberlake skit an even more appropriate eulogy.
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Old 03-16-2013, 03:23 PM   #321
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Default Re: Hugo Chavez dies of cancer

To each its own I guess
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Old 03-16-2013, 04:08 PM   #322
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Default Re: Hugo Chavez dies of cancer

I have a totally new outlook on what is appropriate after I heard someone say, "You can only be offended if you choose to be offended."
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Old 03-16-2013, 10:30 PM   #323
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Default Re: Hugo Chavez dies of cancer

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Originally Posted by buddyholly View Post
If that was directed at me you should know by now that I would never use such juvenile appellations
and right in the next post:

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Originally Posted by buddyholly View Post
But it would be difficult not to focus on his UN appearance where he demonstrated on the international stage that he was indeed a clown.
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Old 03-16-2013, 10:38 PM   #324
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Default Re: Hugo Chavez dies of cancer

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I have a totally new outlook on what is appropriate after I heard someone say, "You can only be offended if you choose to be offended."
half serious, half joking. not sure which half prevails.


being offended is not a rational process of something you can decide. it usually works at a deeper and more emotional level. that said, there are for sure many offensive things that might not even be offensive for the receiver in the first place. if someone calls you idiot and you know you're not (like all idiots think), then you're not bound to get offended.

i once met a dutch girl who, after i explained her the difference between the words "zapato" (shoe) and "zapatería" (shoe store), told me i "had good english for a south american". I was able to see that the girl was probably so dumb she couldn't even realized that what she said was offensive but of course, I, being the mature and sensible person I'm known to be, didn't take the offense at all.
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Old 03-16-2013, 11:07 PM   #325
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Default Re: Hugo Chavez dies of cancer

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Originally Posted by abraxas21 View Post
half serious, half joking. not sure which half prevails.


being offended is not a rational process of something you can decide. it usually works at a deeper and more emotional level. that said, there are for sure many offensive things that might not even be offensive for the receiver in the first place. if someone calls you idiot and you know you're not (like all idiots think), then you're not bound to get offended.

i once met a dutch girl who, after i explained her the difference between the words "zapato" (shoe) and "zapatería" (shoe store), told me i "had good english for a south american". I was able to see that the girl was probably so dumb she couldn't even realized that what she said was offensive but of course, I, being the mature and sensible person I'm known to be, didn't take the offense at all.
Why was her comment offensive? Is it not true that your English is well above the average for South Americans, and that South Americans have, on average, a lower command of the English language than, say, Dutch people?
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Old 03-17-2013, 12:58 AM   #326
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Default Re: Hugo Chavez dies of cancer

I am quite confident that I can offend anyone in the world with just a minimal knowledge about the person.
It's not difficult to do that if your intelligence is at least average. Not at all.
But to truly put yourself in someone else's shoes takes much more than that. I might not be particularly good at it, but I'm trying.
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Old 01-22-2014, 12:13 PM   #327
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Default Re: Hugo Chavez dies of cancer

The legacy lives on. Maduro has blamed the out of control crime rate in Venezuela on soap operas.

Hello? Maybe something to do with bad government?
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Old 01-22-2014, 01:01 PM   #328
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Default Re: Hugo Chavez dies of cancer

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The legacy lives on. Maduro has blamed the out of control crime rate in Venezuela on soap operas.

Hello? Maybe something to do with bad government?
well, americans blame shooting sprees on videogames. I see a global trend here
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Old 01-22-2014, 01:22 PM   #329
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Default Re: Hugo Chavez dies of cancer

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well, americans blame shooting sprees on videogames. I see a global trend here
I was worried about you and just wanted to tempt you out of isolation.

Or is it just that you are as dismayed as I am at MTF having entered a very weak era?
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Old 01-22-2014, 01:58 PM   #330
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Default Re: Hugo Chavez dies of cancer

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I was worried about you and just wanted to tempt you out of isolation.

Or is it just that you are as dismayed as I am at MTF having entered a very weak era?
Many factors but the second option holds some water. MTF is declining. The end of the ACC marked the end of a glorious era.
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