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Old 03-05-2013, 11:18 PM   #16
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Default Re: Wealth distribution in the USA

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Originally Posted by MachimoI View Post
Yes, I wouldn't have a problem, if my neighbour earned 5 times the amount I earn. From where comes this notion that everyone should get the same salary? Furthermore, the income inequality between regular people isn't that large, it's the billionaires that skew the picture.


I don't really care that much about the US, as long as it doesn't bring the world economy down, but in most countries there's pretty much unlimited access to higher education. It doesn't cost a fortune at all. If you want to get a degree, you can get a degree. If your parents aren't wealthy enough, you can get a student loan or enter the job market and get a degree after you've saved up enough money.

So, what exactly is it that you're complaining about? I don't get it. I'm not saying your chances of becoming a millionaire or a billionaire are exactly the same as everyone elses, I'm saying that no one's forcing you to be poor, no one's taking money away from you.

Yes, the income inequality could be less pronounced in the US, but you're still better off than the overwhelming majority of humans even if you're a 'poor' American.

Essentially you're whining about the fact that your chances of becoming a billionaire at birth weren't good enough. I don't get it.

And, by the way, most billionaires are *not* from the financial sector (banks, investment funds etc.).
what you don't get exactly? i already said it. "The point is that not everyone starts at an equal point. when you have people who are born in circumstances way different than others, an unequal wealth distribution is perpetuated."

unequal wealth distribution is of course natural and acceptable. however, i don't think it's acceptable when the differences are as large as shown in this thread's video; to that extent i favour state intervention through higher taxes to the ones who are better off.
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Old 03-06-2013, 09:38 AM   #17
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Default Re: Wealth distribution in the USA

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what you don't get exactly? i already said it. "The point is that not everyone starts at an equal point. when you have people who are born in circumstances way different than others, an unequal wealth distribution is perpetuated."

unequal wealth distribution is of course natural and acceptable. however, i don't think it's acceptable when the differences are as large as shown in this thread's video; to that extent i favour state intervention through higher taxes to the ones who are better off.
Yeah that's why I think that higher education should be free like we have it in Finland and in other Nordic countries. That way anyone can have access to it.

On the other hand, I agree that income inequality shouldn't really matter that much. What is important is how the well-being of the poorest people develops. That should rise (on an absolute scale at least). And indeed it has, at least here.

If there weren't any income inequality, people wouldn't be motivated to study. Why should I bust my ass 5 years through university only to earn the same salary as someone who started working after high-school?
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lol, who will beat him? Wawrinka? Berdych? Gulbis? Rosol? Federer?

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Old 03-06-2013, 01:58 PM   #18
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Default Re: Wealth distribution in the USA

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Originally Posted by Lopez View Post
Yeah that's why I think that higher education should be free like we have it in Finland and in other Nordic countries. That way anyone can have access to it.

On the other hand, I agree that income inequality shouldn't really matter that much. What is important is how the well-being of the poorest people develops. That should rise (on an absolute scale at least). And indeed it has, at least here.

If there weren't any income inequality, people wouldn't be motivated to study. Why should I bust my ass 5 years through university only to earn the same salary as someone who started working after high-school?
Because you'd rather spend your life being an aeronautical engineer than a construction worker?

Suppose that, during your studies, you earned the same salary that people your age who started working after high school get.

You've been busting your ass at uni 5 years, but that construction worker hasn't had it easier, he's been busting his ass in the cold damp Finnish weather day in day out.

In other words, if everybody earned the same amount of money, who would be the ones becoming architects, doctors, university professors? Could it be that we'd get a scenario where they'd end up being the same people as now?

I'm just thinking out loud.
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Armstrong says in-competition testing will never catch anyone, only out-of-competition testing and the blood passport can.

Tennis has no blood passport system, and does basically no out of competition testing.

The methods and drugs used by Armstrong in 1999 would work in tennis right now, with zero chance of being caught (not slightly surprising to anyone familiar with the topic, btw).
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Old 03-06-2013, 02:08 PM   #19
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Default Re: Wealth distribution in the USA

why all of us need to make the same money, i think its totally crazy that a top banker earn more the a Director of hospital ward.

they have Different burden, the responsibility lies on the shoulders is differently, and when im wrong and trust me i make midtakes, my bank lose money but no lives are taken, i cant say the same about doctors.

theres a reason why some ppl make more money, with that i would like to add that there is a big big line between making a good living and being a pig.
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Old 03-06-2013, 02:12 PM   #20
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Default Re: Wealth distribution in the USA

some of you are missing the point. the video isn't proposing complete wealth equality. it's complaining about what they and I perceive as an extreme wealth inequality. extreme enough to the point one can regard it as unfair.
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Old 03-06-2013, 02:21 PM   #21
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Default Re: Wealth distribution in the USA

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Originally Posted by abraxas21 View Post
some of you are missing the point. the video isn't proposing complete wealth equality. it's complaining about what they and I perceive as an extreme wealth inequality. extreme enough to the point one can regard it as unfair.
to tell u the truth i have no idea why they need to much money, at some point does it matter if u have 5 billion or 6? i doubt it.
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Old 03-06-2013, 03:54 PM   #22
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Default Re: Wealth distribution in the USA

Whats so new in it? Its the same case everywhere i presume. US,India,Europe.. Everywhere... Rich People have more hunger,SOme of them get lucky,some of them cheat but most of them are a hungry lot.
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Old 03-06-2013, 04:13 PM   #23
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Default Re: Wealth distribution in the USA

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You've been busting your ass at uni 5 years, but that construction worker hasn't had it easier, he's been busting his ass in the cold damp Finnish weather day in day out.
They thought the same in communism, and it turned out great
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Old 03-06-2013, 05:02 PM   #24
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Default Re: Wealth distribution in the USA

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Originally Posted by Har-Tru View Post
Because you'd rather spend your life being an aeronautical engineer than a construction worker?

Suppose that, during your studies, you earned the same salary that people your age who started working after high school get.

You've been busting your ass at uni 5 years, but that construction worker hasn't had it easier, he's been busting his ass in the cold damp Finnish weather day in day out.

In other words, if everybody earned the same amount of money, who would be the ones becoming architects, doctors, university professors? Could it be that we'd get a scenario where they'd end up being the same people as now?

I'm just thinking out loud.
I understand your point. However, there are several degrees of difficulties in jobs, whether it's mental or physical difficulty. When a job is demanding, usually you'll get paid well for it. Naturally there are several many other things that affect salary, but that's the gist. If you start working earlier you will be able to accumulate wealth at an earlier age and earn more money as you become more senior. This is compensated in some high-education fields by having higher salaries. And, of course, the more specialized the education, the scarcer the resource, the more money is paid.

There are several easy jobs in the economy and then there are more difficult ones. A higher salary compensates and gives motivation to do the hard ones, otherwise everybody would be some kind of state clerk at an office drinking coffee all day. Of course, some people would probably go the more demanding route but that's the minority I'd say.
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lol, who will beat him? Wawrinka? Berdych? Gulbis? Rosol? Federer?

Only Del Potro can take him out before the semis, and he won't. Nadal is winning the AO, bet your house on it.
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Old 03-06-2013, 10:36 PM   #25
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Default Re: Wealth distribution in the USA

Well, starting a succesfull company from scrap with the possibility of going bankrupt at any moment, it is very stressful and not a path many people like to take. Ofcourse you should be allowed to keep whatever you wealth you are able to create this way, if you have good ideas you do best know how to produce goods of value and invest in increasing the size of your company. Every dollar government takes will not be invested as wisely, there is no incentive for government to produce anything of value, government employeees are usually quite lazy and in for it for security and not to go out and compete against other producers.
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Old 03-06-2013, 11:08 PM   #26
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Default Re: Wealth distribution in the USA

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Originally Posted by Lopez View Post
I understand your point. However, there are several degrees of difficulties in jobs, whether it's mental or physical difficulty. When a job is demanding, usually you'll get paid well for it. Naturally there are several many other things that affect salary, but that's the gist. If you start working earlier you will be able to accumulate wealth at an earlier age and earn more money as you become more senior. This is compensated in some high-education fields by having higher salaries. And, of course, the more specialized the education, the scarcer the resource, the more money is paid.

There are several easy jobs in the economy and then there are more difficult ones. A higher salary compensates and gives motivation to do the hard ones, otherwise everybody would be some kind of state clerk at an office drinking coffee all day. Of course, some people would probably go the more demanding route but that's the minority I'd say.
I know how the system works.

Also, remember I said in that hypothetical situation, students would get the full salary of workers during their studies, so they could accumulate wealth too.

And aren't the ones who take the more demanding career path the minority today as well?

I'm playing devil's advocate, I'm not convinced by my scenario. While it might work for some attractive professions, I have a hard time believing there would be enough people choosing to become dentists when they could get the same money doing anything else.
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Armstrong says in-competition testing will never catch anyone, only out-of-competition testing and the blood passport can.

Tennis has no blood passport system, and does basically no out of competition testing.

The methods and drugs used by Armstrong in 1999 would work in tennis right now, with zero chance of being caught (not slightly surprising to anyone familiar with the topic, btw).
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Old 03-07-2013, 07:23 AM   #27
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Default Re: Wealth distribution in the USA

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I know how the system works.

Also, remember I said in that hypothetical situation, students would get the full salary of workers during their studies, so they could accumulate wealth too.

And aren't the ones who take the more demanding career path the minority today as well?

I'm playing devil's advocate, I'm not convinced by my scenario. While it might work for some attractive professions, I have a hard time believing there would be enough people choosing to become dentists when they could get the same money doing anything else.
Oh alright . Didn't catch that.

Then I would've probably studied philosophy or some other dead-end field . As you said, most people won't be motivated by simply the challenge itself, especially since it's lifetime commitment.
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lol, who will beat him? Wawrinka? Berdych? Gulbis? Rosol? Federer?

Only Del Potro can take him out before the semis, and he won't. Nadal is winning the AO, bet your house on it.
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Old 03-07-2013, 08:56 AM   #28
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Default Re: Wealth distribution in the USA

To be fair some poor people also get stuck in a pattern that reinforce their own poverty. Many get children early which is hard to combine with higher education. Also forces them to take any crappy job to get around (or seek welfare)

As I said before it's not just about income. It's about the entire life situation. How much time do a person have for a career? How big are the expenses?

To go from being poor to becoming rich takes a major sacrifice. Need to think more long term and put away some things for the future, like for example creating a big family. Otherwise the expenses will never allow you to become "rich".For example in Sweden it's calculated that a child costs 1,2M kr up until they are 19. Having to will cost you 3,2M kr. rough estimate.

Yet some people are probably perfectly happy of just scraping by with a nice big family instead of putting that on the future, work their ass off trying to join the wealthy.
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Old 03-07-2013, 09:10 AM   #29
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Default Re: Wealth distribution in the USA

Sam Harris's take on the issue:

http://www.samharris.org/site/full_t...n-for-the-rich

http://www.samharris.org/blog/item/h...h-is-too-rich/

http://www.samharris.org/blog/item/h...t-even-trying/
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Quote:
Originally Posted by philosophicalarf View Post
Armstrong says in-competition testing will never catch anyone, only out-of-competition testing and the blood passport can.

Tennis has no blood passport system, and does basically no out of competition testing.

The methods and drugs used by Armstrong in 1999 would work in tennis right now, with zero chance of being caught (not slightly surprising to anyone familiar with the topic, btw).
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Old 03-07-2013, 09:26 AM   #30
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Default Re: Wealth distribution in the USA

Yeah the US has it worse than Europe I'd say.

On the other hand, the average GDP/capita is great and their well-being is ranked highly as well by many different indicators. But they have some fundamental problems with the system that should probably be dealt with.
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lol, who will beat him? Wawrinka? Berdych? Gulbis? Rosol? Federer?

Only Del Potro can take him out before the semis, and he won't. Nadal is winning the AO, bet your house on it.
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