Nadal's Early Years - MensTennisForums.com

MensTennisForums.com

MenstennisForums.com is the premier Men's Tennis forum on the internet. Registered Users do not see the above ads.Please Register - It's Free!

Reply

Old 03-05-2013, 03:54 PM   #1
country flag jjc225
Registered User
 
jjc225's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 480
jjc225 has a reputation beyond reputejjc225 has a reputation beyond reputejjc225 has a reputation beyond reputejjc225 has a reputation beyond reputejjc225 has a reputation beyond reputejjc225 has a reputation beyond reputejjc225 has a reputation beyond reputejjc225 has a reputation beyond reputejjc225 has a reputation beyond reputejjc225 has a reputation beyond reputejjc225 has a reputation beyond repute
Default Nadal's Early Years

Nadal turned pro in 2001. It seems like many of the players who go on to become stars on the ATP tour climb through the rankings relatively quickly in the early years, while average players toil in the lower echelon of the rankings for quite a long time. It would be interesting to do a comparative study of how top-ranked players such as Federer, Djokovic, and Murray did in their early years and their path out of the lower rankings. Here is a brief summary of Nadal's first five years.

2001 - attained no ranking and played only two tournaments

2002 - climbed from 762 to 238. (How did Nadal get out of the 1000's rankings? I can see no record of how he did this.) Went 42-6 in challengers. His losses were to Portas (rank 96), Balcells (123), Fornell-Mestres (441), Peppas (421), el Aarej (516), and Rochus (70). It is a pretty good accomplishment in second year on tour to make it into the 200s.

2003 - started making some money on the tour, $221,563. Went 14-11 in ATP events. Improved rank from 203 to 47.

2004 - Earned $347,212. Went 30-17 in ATP events. Finished year ranked 51.

2005 - this was obviously the breakthrough year for Nadal. Went 79-10 on the ATP tour, earned $3,794,327, won 11 titles including the French Open, attaining number 2 world ranking.

So it looks like the best shoot through the rankings pretty quickly and become elite players within about five years. This is likely a typical trajectory and timetable for the elite players in the game.

Last edited by jjc225 : 03-05-2013 at 04:01 PM.
jjc225 is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 

Old 03-05-2013, 04:01 PM   #2
country flag Slice Winner
Registered User
 
Slice Winner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 2,310
Slice Winner has a reputation beyond reputeSlice Winner has a reputation beyond reputeSlice Winner has a reputation beyond reputeSlice Winner has a reputation beyond reputeSlice Winner has a reputation beyond reputeSlice Winner has a reputation beyond reputeSlice Winner has a reputation beyond reputeSlice Winner has a reputation beyond reputeSlice Winner has a reputation beyond reputeSlice Winner has a reputation beyond reputeSlice Winner has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Nadal's Early Years

Quote:
Originally Posted by jjc225 View Post
Nadal turned pro in 2001. It seems like many of the players who go on to become stars on the ATP tour climb through the rankings relatively quickly in the early years, while average players toil in the lower echelon of the rankings for quite a long time. It would be interesting to do a comparative study of how top-ranked players such as Federer, Djokovic, and Murray did in their early years and their path out of the lower rankings. Here is a brief summary of Nadal's first five years.

2001 - attained no ranking and played only two tournaments

2002 - climbed from 762 to 238. (How did Nadal get out of the 1000's rankings? I can see no record of how he did this.) Went 42-6 in challengers. His losses were to Portas (rank 96), Balcells (123), Fornell-Mestres (441), Peppas (421), el Aarej (516), and Rochus (70). It is a pretty good accomplishment in second year on tour to make it into the 200s.

2003 - started making some money on the tour, $221,563. Went 14-11 in ATP events. Improved rank from 203 to 47.

2004 - Earned $347,212. Went 30-17 in ATP events. Finished year ranked 51.

2005 - this was obviously the breakthrough year for Nadal. Went 79-10 on the ATP tour, earned $3,794,327, won 11 titles including the French Open.

So it looks like the best shoot through the rankings pretty quickly and become elite players within about five years. This is likely a typical trajectory and timetable for the elite players in the game.
Based on what you've presented, it looks like Nadal does that. You haven't presented any other cases from which to make such a generalisation.
Slice Winner is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2013, 04:04 PM   #3
country flag jjc225
Registered User
 
jjc225's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 480
jjc225 has a reputation beyond reputejjc225 has a reputation beyond reputejjc225 has a reputation beyond reputejjc225 has a reputation beyond reputejjc225 has a reputation beyond reputejjc225 has a reputation beyond reputejjc225 has a reputation beyond reputejjc225 has a reputation beyond reputejjc225 has a reputation beyond reputejjc225 has a reputation beyond reputejjc225 has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Nadal's Early Years

Quote:
Originally Posted by Slice Winner View Post
Based on what you've presented, it looks like Nadal does that. You haven't presented any other cases from which to make such a generalisation.
I am in the process of analyzing other players and their trajectories into the top rankings. I imagine it is pretty close to what Nadal accomplished.
jjc225 is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2013, 04:46 PM   #4
country flag Litotes
ALT-0
 
Litotes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Norway
Age: 41
Posts: 35,005
Litotes has a reputation beyond reputeLitotes has a reputation beyond reputeLitotes has a reputation beyond reputeLitotes has a reputation beyond reputeLitotes has a reputation beyond reputeLitotes has a reputation beyond reputeLitotes has a reputation beyond reputeLitotes has a reputation beyond reputeLitotes has a reputation beyond reputeLitotes has a reputation beyond reputeLitotes has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Nadal's Early Years

Quote:
Originally Posted by jjc225 View Post
2002 - climbed from 762 to 238. (How did Nadal get out of the 1000's rankings? I can see no record of how he did this.) Went 42-6 in challengers. His losses were to Portas (rank 96), Balcells (123), Fornell-Mestres (441), Peppas (421), el Aarej (516), and Rochus (70). It is a pretty good accomplishment in second year on tour to make it into the 200s.
There is no record on the ATP page, what is certain is that he was credited as playing something the week beginning 5/11-01 and got 6 points for it, elevating him to 826th spot.
Litotes is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2013, 04:51 PM   #5
country flag Smoke944
Registered User
 
Smoke944's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 12,395
Smoke944 has a reputation beyond reputeSmoke944 has a reputation beyond reputeSmoke944 has a reputation beyond reputeSmoke944 has a reputation beyond reputeSmoke944 has a reputation beyond reputeSmoke944 has a reputation beyond reputeSmoke944 has a reputation beyond reputeSmoke944 has a reputation beyond reputeSmoke944 has a reputation beyond reputeSmoke944 has a reputation beyond reputeSmoke944 has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Nadal's Early Years

Quote:
Originally Posted by Litotes View Post
There is no record on the ATP page, what is certain is that he was credited as playing something the week beginning 5/11-01 and got 6 points for it, elevating him to 826th spot.
Spain Satellite #5
Smoke944 is online now View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2013, 05:29 PM   #6
country flag TennisPhan1
Registered User
 
TennisPhan1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Age: 31
Posts: 864
TennisPhan1 has a reputation beyond reputeTennisPhan1 has a reputation beyond reputeTennisPhan1 has a reputation beyond reputeTennisPhan1 has a reputation beyond reputeTennisPhan1 has a reputation beyond reputeTennisPhan1 has a reputation beyond reputeTennisPhan1 has a reputation beyond reputeTennisPhan1 has a reputation beyond reputeTennisPhan1 has a reputation beyond reputeTennisPhan1 has a reputation beyond reputeTennisPhan1 has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Nadal's Early Years

so was he better in 2005-2008 or 2010-2012?
TennisPhan1 is online now View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2013, 05:46 PM   #7
country flag star
Blown Out On the Trail
 
star's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 62,737
star has a reputation beyond reputestar has a reputation beyond reputestar has a reputation beyond reputestar has a reputation beyond reputestar has a reputation beyond reputestar has a reputation beyond reputestar has a reputation beyond reputestar has a reputation beyond reputestar has a reputation beyond reputestar has a reputation beyond reputestar has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Nadal's Early Years

Quote:
Originally Posted by jjc225 View Post
I am in the process of analyzing other players and their trajectories into the top rankings. I imagine it is pretty close to what Nadal accomplished.
I think age begun on the pro circuit has to be factored in. It seems to my memory that roddick came thru futures and challengers more quickly. But he was older when he started. Also isner had a different trajectory because of college play
star is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2013, 05:49 PM   #8
country flag Burrow
Registered User
 
Burrow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 18,192
Burrow has a reputation beyond reputeBurrow has a reputation beyond reputeBurrow has a reputation beyond reputeBurrow has a reputation beyond reputeBurrow has a reputation beyond reputeBurrow has a reputation beyond reputeBurrow has a reputation beyond reputeBurrow has a reputation beyond reputeBurrow has a reputation beyond reputeBurrow has a reputation beyond reputeBurrow has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Nadal's Early Years

I don't know what it means by "turned pro" on the ATP website. For example, it says Djokovic turned pro in 2003, where he was ranked around 800. I wouldn't exactly call that "pro". Yes, he may be training full time, but so were a lot of youngsters who hadn't even cracked the top 1000.
Burrow is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2013, 06:03 PM   #9
country flag asmazif
Registered User
 
asmazif's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,720
asmazif has a reputation beyond reputeasmazif has a reputation beyond reputeasmazif has a reputation beyond reputeasmazif has a reputation beyond reputeasmazif has a reputation beyond reputeasmazif has a reputation beyond reputeasmazif has a reputation beyond reputeasmazif has a reputation beyond reputeasmazif has a reputation beyond reputeasmazif has a reputation beyond reputeasmazif has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Nadal's Early Years

Quote:
Originally Posted by Corey Feldman View Post
Star Trek III: the wrathfael of Khan
there we go
__________________
| Wins over 3+ of the Top 4. Players to reach all slam QFs+ in history. Hawkeye/Line Calls.
Nole / Tsonga / The Fog / Haas / Brown / Gojowczyk / Colonel / Mahut / Sijsling / Dolgo / Funky Flo / Cuevas / Fed / Stan / Baker / Alund / Tursunov / Brands / Benneteau / Steps / Stakh / PHM
Edberg / Rafter / Henman / Stich / Safin / Gambill / Grosjean / Malisse / Gonzo / Llodra / Santoro / Agassi / Schalken / Nováček / Rosewall / Ashe / H-T Lee / Kuerten / Boetsch / Pavel / Sundström / Björkman / Scud / El Aynaoui / Arazi / Calleri / Sampras / Nalbandian / Mosquito / Srichaphan / Pioline
asmazif is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2013, 07:05 PM   #10
country flag Nole fan
The new era of SuperNovak
 
Nole fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 14,509
Nole fan has a reputation beyond reputeNole fan has a reputation beyond reputeNole fan has a reputation beyond reputeNole fan has a reputation beyond reputeNole fan has a reputation beyond reputeNole fan has a reputation beyond reputeNole fan has a reputation beyond reputeNole fan has a reputation beyond reputeNole fan has a reputation beyond reputeNole fan has a reputation beyond reputeNole fan has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Nadal's Early Years

Quote:
Originally Posted by Burrow View Post
I don't know what it means by "turned pro" on the ATP website. For example, it says Djokovic turned pro in 2003, where he was ranked around 800. I wouldn't exactly call that "pro". Yes, he may be training full time, but so were a lot of youngsters who hadn't even cracked the top 1000.
You turn pro when you get your first ATP points.

Djokovic's rise through the rankings was also meteoric.

2003 #767
2004 #186
2005 #78
2006 #16
2007 #3
2008 #3
2009 #3
2010 #3
2011-present #1

Here is Fed's.

1997 #718
1998 #302
1999 #64
2000 #29
2001 #13
2002 #6
2003 #2
2004-2007 #1
2008 #2
2009 #1
2010 #2
2011 #3
2012 #2

Here is Murray's. Funnily enough he had more ranking points at the beginning of his ATP career than Novak but he needed more time to breakthrough. After that they were pretty even.

2003 #546
2004 #514
2005 #65
2006 #17
2007 #11
2008-2011 #4
2012 #3
__________________

Either you get him or you don't.

Novak Djokovic nş1!

The Golden Era of Novak: Australian Open * Dubai * Indian Wells * Miami * Belgrade * Madrid * Rome * Wimbledon * Montreal * US Open * Abu Dhabi * Australian Open * Miami * Toronto * China * Shanghai * World Tour Finals 2012 * Australian Open 2013 * Dubai * Montecarlo * Beijing * Shanghai * Paris * WTF * Indian Wells * Miami * Rome * WIMBLEDON 2014
Federer to Nole: "Amazing year. Amazing tournament. Amazing match. You are THE BEST!"
Nole fan is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2013, 08:10 PM   #11
country flag Kyle_Johansen
Registered User
 
Kyle_Johansen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Age: 22
Posts: 9,116
Kyle_Johansen has a reputation beyond reputeKyle_Johansen has a reputation beyond reputeKyle_Johansen has a reputation beyond reputeKyle_Johansen has a reputation beyond reputeKyle_Johansen has a reputation beyond reputeKyle_Johansen has a reputation beyond reputeKyle_Johansen has a reputation beyond reputeKyle_Johansen has a reputation beyond reputeKyle_Johansen has a reputation beyond reputeKyle_Johansen has a reputation beyond reputeKyle_Johansen has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Nadal's Early Years

It seems that most of the great players took a few years to settle in at the top. Pete won his first Slam in 1990 but he didn't win another one for 3 years, like Novak.
Kyle_Johansen is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2013, 08:16 PM   #12
country flag Fumus
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Albany, NY
Posts: 12,782
Fumus has a reputation beyond reputeFumus has a reputation beyond reputeFumus has a reputation beyond reputeFumus has a reputation beyond reputeFumus has a reputation beyond reputeFumus has a reputation beyond reputeFumus has a reputation beyond reputeFumus has a reputation beyond reputeFumus has a reputation beyond reputeFumus has a reputation beyond reputeFumus has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Nadal's Early Years

__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by leng jai View Post
Anyone who says any player has no chance against Dolgopolov is clearly trolling.
That's the gospel.
Fumus is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2013, 08:16 PM   #13
country flag asmazif
Registered User
 
asmazif's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 5,720
asmazif has a reputation beyond reputeasmazif has a reputation beyond reputeasmazif has a reputation beyond reputeasmazif has a reputation beyond reputeasmazif has a reputation beyond reputeasmazif has a reputation beyond reputeasmazif has a reputation beyond reputeasmazif has a reputation beyond reputeasmazif has a reputation beyond reputeasmazif has a reputation beyond reputeasmazif has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Nadal's Early Years

I believe you turn pro when you accept your first paycheck.
__________________
| Wins over 3+ of the Top 4. Players to reach all slam QFs+ in history. Hawkeye/Line Calls.
Nole / Tsonga / The Fog / Haas / Brown / Gojowczyk / Colonel / Mahut / Sijsling / Dolgo / Funky Flo / Cuevas / Fed / Stan / Baker / Alund / Tursunov / Brands / Benneteau / Steps / Stakh / PHM
Edberg / Rafter / Henman / Stich / Safin / Gambill / Grosjean / Malisse / Gonzo / Llodra / Santoro / Agassi / Schalken / Nováček / Rosewall / Ashe / H-T Lee / Kuerten / Boetsch / Pavel / Sundström / Björkman / Scud / El Aynaoui / Arazi / Calleri / Sampras / Nalbandian / Mosquito / Srichaphan / Pioline
asmazif is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2013, 08:21 PM   #14
country flag Litotes
ALT-0
 
Litotes's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Norway
Age: 41
Posts: 35,005
Litotes has a reputation beyond reputeLitotes has a reputation beyond reputeLitotes has a reputation beyond reputeLitotes has a reputation beyond reputeLitotes has a reputation beyond reputeLitotes has a reputation beyond reputeLitotes has a reputation beyond reputeLitotes has a reputation beyond reputeLitotes has a reputation beyond reputeLitotes has a reputation beyond reputeLitotes has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Nadal's Early Years

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyle_Johansen View Post
It seems that most of the great players took a few years to settle in at the top. Pete won his first Slam in 1990 but he didn't win another one for 3 years, like Novak.
Those two are so far the only ones to do that, of those winning a lot of slams.

For Connors, 2nd slam was same year as 1st
For Borg, 2nd was the year after the 1st. Same for Wilander, Lendl, Becker, McEnroe, Federer, Nadal
For Agassi, 2nd was 2 years after the 1st. Same for Edberg.
Litotes is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2013, 08:27 PM   #15
country flag TennisOnWood
Registered User
 
TennisOnWood's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 3,964
TennisOnWood has a reputation beyond reputeTennisOnWood has a reputation beyond reputeTennisOnWood has a reputation beyond reputeTennisOnWood has a reputation beyond reputeTennisOnWood has a reputation beyond reputeTennisOnWood has a reputation beyond reputeTennisOnWood has a reputation beyond reputeTennisOnWood has a reputation beyond reputeTennisOnWood has a reputation beyond reputeTennisOnWood has a reputation beyond reputeTennisOnWood has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Nadal's Early Years

Quote:
Originally Posted by asmazif View Post
I believe you turn pro when you accept your first paycheck.
True, and nole girl is wrong(nothing new)
__________________
HIC IACET ARTHURUS REX QUONDAM REXQUE FUTURUS — "Here lies Arthur, the once and future king."
TennisOnWood is offline View My Blog!   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


Copyright (C) Verticalscope Inc
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
vBCredits v1.4 Copyright ©2007, PixelFX Studios