Toni: "In terms of records Nadal's better than Borg but I think Borg is better" - Page 4 - MensTennisForums.com

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Old 02-11-2013, 07:08 AM   #46
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Default Re: Toni: "In terms of records Nadal's better than Borg but I think Borg is better"

Quote:
Originally Posted by SliceAce View Post
Borg may have had a mild personality compared to the spoiled brat MugEnroe, but let's not forget this is the man who walked off the court before the ceremony and ditched the press conference at his last grand slam, the man who tried to sell off his Wimbledon trophies to support his drug habit, the man who couldn't stay retired because he was too much of a diva (something you only see now in the women's tour thank god). All the champions of that era: MugEnroe, Borg, and Connors were divas and clowns, Nadull would fit in quite well among their company. It is Federer, who has the class of Arthur Ashe, the talent of Laver, the power and mental strength of Borg who is beyond historical comparison. Tony is wise to preoccupy himself with Nadull's mediocre legacy.
Yeah, the man who kept bashing Murray everytime, the man who asked fro 2 million euros just to play in his home tournament, the man who blamed Wawrinka for losing DC, whereas he himself lost his match, the man who cries in every final he loses like his opponent doesn't deserve the win. His not as classy as his PR people are putting out.
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Old 02-11-2013, 07:35 AM   #47
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Default Re: Toni: "In terms of records Nadal's better than Borg but I think Borg is better"

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Originally Posted by thrust View Post
GREAT ACCURATE POST! The fact is that Borg never won a hard court slam. Did Borg never play the AO?
Borg played the AO once, back then it was of course played on grass. As was the US Open when he began playing there, though he didn't get many chances before they switched to clay...and later to HC. All in all the played four HC slams, scoring three Fs and one QF. He has still got the best average performance in HC slams of all time, though of course in this respect he profited from not playing HC when he was up-and-coming.
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Old 02-11-2013, 08:20 AM   #48
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Default Re: Toni: "In terms of records Nadal's better than Borg but I think Borg is better"

Borg was a different era. It's a kick in his nuts to compare him to Nadal. If Borg knew he would be compaed to that type of sportsman he had retired at 18
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Old 02-11-2013, 08:32 AM   #49
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Default Re: Toni: "In terms of records Nadal's better than Borg but I think Borg is better"

My dad once said said Borg was the only player he's seen that had similar invincibility aura close to Federer's prime. So Toni may not be so wrong afterall
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Old 02-11-2013, 11:35 AM   #50
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Default Re: Toni: "In terms of records Nadal's better than Borg but I think Borg is better"

Uncle Toni speaks the truth. Borg was a much better fast court player than Nadal and on clay, what would Nadal hurt him with? Certainly not high topspin to his two-handed backhand. And for sure, Borg had the better serve.
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Old 02-11-2013, 12:39 PM   #51
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Default Re: Toni: "In terms of records Nadal's better than Borg but I think Borg is better"

I don't know why people are making anything much about this remark, in either direction. Uncle Toni is asked to comment on Borg. Uncle Toni goes with a piety instead of saying something controversial. How many statements do you hear from the camps of top players saying they're better than their historical competitors? And instead, how many such opportunities are foregone? Basically, it looks bad when you brag, especially when the statement is debatable either way.
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Old 02-11-2013, 12:46 PM   #52
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Default Re: Toni: "In terms of records Nadal's better than Borg but I think Borg is better"

All surfaces considered, it's very clear that Borg is superior to Nadal imo

As for clay, both were so superior to the others that yes, despite better figures for Nadal, I personally don't think it's that "obvious" that Nadal is better than Borg.

They just had a different attitude towards clay and towards tennis in general : Nadal plays everything like an oger, typical of our era where people are so much concerned about records, Borg didn't put so much energy there, was more "dilettante" in a way. Often preferred playing carpet tournaments than clay ones.

Imo, both were "clay monsters", including physical monsters, and that's all.
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Old 02-11-2013, 12:48 PM   #53
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Default Re: Toni: "In terms of records Nadal's better than Borg but I think Borg is better"

Replace Nadal with Federer and Borg with Nadal and I agree
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Old 02-11-2013, 12:54 PM   #54
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Default Re: Toni: "In terms of records Nadal's better than Borg but I think Borg is better"

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Originally Posted by Sanya View Post
One of the greatest records ever - winning % of matches played for whole career on all surfaces. Funny, but currently Nadal has better one, but it will be gone after his next loss.
also best % of matches won in slams in open era (89.8%), which he will probably keep for very long because he was in the best condition for such a record :
- very precocious
- and stopped before starting to lose

Nadal is second best for that stat at the moment (87.7), Fed 3rd (86.9).
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Old 02-11-2013, 12:56 PM   #55
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Default Re: Toni: "In terms of records Nadal's better than Borg but I think Borg is better"

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Originally Posted by thrust View Post
GREAT ACCURATE POST! The fact is that Borg never won a hard court slam. Did Borg never play the AO?
he played it once at 18 years old, and you may not know but it was not on hardcourts in that time

Borg has played more US Open finals (4) than Nadal (2) (1 of them was on American clay though), that he didn't win it is a pure anomaly of history.
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Old 02-11-2013, 01:30 PM   #56
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Default Re: Toni: "In terms of records Nadal's better than Borg but I think Borg is better"

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Originally Posted by SliceAce View Post
Borg may have had a mild personality compared to the spoiled brat MugEnroe, but let's not forget this is the man who walked off the court before the ceremony and ditched the press conference at his last grand slam
he had been threatened to death before the match, that's the main reason
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Old 02-11-2013, 01:38 PM   #57
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Default Re: Toni: "In terms of records Nadal's better than Borg but I think Borg is better"

I think that two things play a role in Toni saying this:
Quote:
When I saw Borg play, seemed unbeatable. On the other hand Rafel seems beatable to me.
1. Toni has been training Rafa since the age of 4 so he has seen him evolve from a toddler tossing a ball back and forth while holding a racquet that was nearly as big as himself to the guy winning grand slam titles. On the other hand, he saw Borg on his tv for the first time when Borg was already a big player. Obviously, there's a different way of looking at both men.

2. Borg had ice in his veins. He is nicknamed Iceborg for a reason. Just looking at this demeanor on court, you simply couldn't tell whether he was losing or winning. Rafa is totally different in that regard. He doesn't really hide his emotions on court and Toni knows his nephew through and through, so he knows better than anyone when his nephew has doubts, when he is confident,...
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Old 02-11-2013, 01:43 PM   #58
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Default Re: Toni: "In terms of records Nadal's better than Borg but I think Borg is better"

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Originally Posted by Castafiore View Post
I think that two things play a role in Toni saying this:

1. Toni has been training Rafa since the age of 4 so he has seen him evolve from a toddler tossing a ball back and forth while holding a racquet that was nearly as big as himself to the guy winning grand slam titles. On the other hand, he saw Borg on his tv for the first time when Borg was already a big player. Obviously, there's a different way of looking at both men.

2. Borg had ice in his veins. He is nicknamed Iceborg for a reason. Just looking at this demeanor on court, you simply couldn't tell whether he was losing or winning. Rafa is totally different in that regard. He doesn't really hide his emotions on court and Toni knows his nephew through and through, so he knows better than anyone when his nephew has doubts, when he is confident,...
yes for sure apart from all of our "tentatively objective" arguments, Toni's position is clearly first explained by his subjectivity.

It reminds me when people overanalyze when Nadal says that he played better in 2012 than in 2008 in his opinion, or when Fed says that he thinks he's a better player nowadays

This kind of arguments that "X said that" clearly has little value because they don't really speak of the topic when they say that, they speak of something else, more intimate.
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Old 02-11-2013, 02:16 PM   #59
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Default Re: Toni: "In terms of records Nadal's better than Borg but I think Borg is better"

Did Borg ever lose when healthy? Yes? There's your answer.
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Old 02-11-2013, 04:00 PM   #60
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Default Re: Toni: "In terms of records Nadal's better than Borg but I think Borg is better"

Old news. Toni has always quipped that he felt Bjorn was more unbeatable than Rafa. In fact, the first story about this that I can remember, Toni listed Borg, Nadal, Federer as the top 3 clay court players ever in that order. His reasoning was that Bjorn never missed in his prime whereas he felt Rafa did miss time to time.

However, as for his intentions, I'm not sure. Does he actually love Borg that much? Does he say this time to time in order to motivate Rafa to try to prove his uncle wrong? Does he say this in order to keep Rafa's head under the clouds?
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