Doping in Tennis Thread (No accusations without proof. Wada could test using hair) - Page 72 - MensTennisForums.com

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View Poll Results: Does Tennis need more/stricter testing?

yes 291 83.86%
no 56 16.14%
Voters: 347. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 02-19-2013, 01:04 AM   #1066
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Default Re: Doping in Tennis Thread (No accusations without proof)

International Tennis Federation to increase testing on players linked to Dr Luis García del Moral

Quote:
Dr Luis García del Moral, who was banned by US anti-doping officials when they published their evidence against Armstrong and his US Postal team last year, is based in Valencia and had a 15-year association with tennis players from the nearby TenisVal Academy.

The ITF was so concerned about Del Moral’s alleged links to tennis players that it sent a message to all tennis professionals telling them not to work with him. But Telegraph Sport understands anti-doping bodies remain concerned that some players may be continuing to work with Del Moral despite the warning and have therefore increased the level of testing undergone by those under suspicion.

In a further measure, former and current tennis players from the TenisVal Academy have been questioned by the ITF over their work with Del Moral in the past. All those who admitted to having done so insisted they saw Del Moral only for testing and analysis, and maintain they have not engaged in any blood doping or illegal drug practices.

The US Anti-Doping Agency (Usada) evidence claimed Del Moral was actively promoting drug use in the US Postal team from 1999 to 2003. Another cyclist, Floyd Landis, said he paid the doctor US$10,000 directly to conduct blood transfusions.

Usada said: “Numerous riders will testify that Dr Del Moral gave to them, encouraged them to use and/or assisted them in using doping products and/or prohibited methods.’’

Del Moral had previously claimed via a website which has since been shut down that he also worked with Valencia and Barcelona football teams. Barcelona told Telegraph Sport last year they had no record of him being on their payroll, while Valencia declined to comment.

In the note to players the ITF warned of taking care when considering who to seek treatment, guidance and advice from in the future, highlighting that Del Moral had trafficked EPO, blood transfusions, testosterone, human growth hormone, corticosteroids and masking agents and administered those drugs to professional cyclists.

The ITF says it has been satisfied that the tennis players linked with Del Moral were not engaging in blood doping.
But authorities have been concerned that some players may still be associating with Del Moral. Under current World Anti Doping rules the doctor cannot be given any official status at any sports event around the world but there are no direct bans preventing him from continuing to see players.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/oth...del-Moral.html

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Old 02-19-2013, 01:30 AM   #1067
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Default Re: Doping in Tennis Thread (No accusations without proof)

As if anyone needed to guess what "services" Lance Armstrong's doctor was supplying to tennis players.
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Old 02-19-2013, 02:01 AM   #1068
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Default Re: Doping in Tennis Thread (No accusations without proof)

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typical of how many people consider politics on MTF (and unfortunately overall in our democracies ) : what's "really serious" in politics is not mediatic words, but ACTS.

Introducing the biological passport in tennis would be a major act.
It's not like Federer's doing much about it.
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Old 02-19-2013, 07:57 AM   #1069
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Default Re: Doping in Tennis Thread (No accusations without proof)

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thanks good interview of the WADA's director

Some interesting answers in the last part :
interesting answer about the testing in the light of people speculating about silent bans.

he suggests it's not possible to hide a failed test from WADA
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Old 02-19-2013, 12:48 PM   #1070
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Default Re: Doping in Tennis Thread (No accusations without proof)

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interesting answer about the testing in the light of people speculating about silent bans.

he suggests it's not possible to hide a failed test from WADA
I'm not sure that he does say that : what he says for sure is what we already knew : it can only be hidden if the ITF breaks the rules which they have planned with the WADA (and he adds that the laboratory has to be an accomplice to the ITF)

Quote:
Every time someone is injured for a long period, there are always rumours that it’s really a drugs ban that’s been covered up. Do you think things like that have been covered up in the past?

It could have in the past, but not now. I don’t think there’s any cover-up going on now. If it’s a positive case, it goes into our system….I should pause…if it’s a positive case that doesn’t go into our system and somehow that there’s a deal (saying) ‘you just stand down for a while’, then we’d never know about it. The only way that could happen would be if there was a crook in the lab.
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Old 02-19-2013, 12:53 PM   #1071
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Default Re: Doping in Tennis Thread (No accusations without proof)

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Originally Posted by Pirata. View Post
Under current World Anti Doping rules the doctor cannot be given any official status at any sports event around the world but there are no direct bans preventing him from continuing to see players.
The WADA is currently planning to change that rule : they could make something to forbid sportsmen to ever meet again those doctors who had previously been implied in doping traffics.
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Old 02-19-2013, 01:37 PM   #1072
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Default Re: Doping in Tennis Thread (No accusations without proof)

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interesting answer about the testing in the light of people speculating about silent bans.
It always struck me as difficult to pull off - like any conspiracy, the more who know about it, the less likely it is to hold. When it was all under the ATP's control it was possible, now surely a lot harder.

Then again, that's guesswork based on a very incomplete picture. There are some awfully suspicious absences/disappearances......
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Old 02-19-2013, 01:47 PM   #1073
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Default Re: Doping in Tennis Thread (No accusations without proof)

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Originally Posted by duong View Post
no he doesnt say that : he says what we already knew : it can only be hidden if the ITF breaks the rules which they have planned with the WADA (and he adds that the laboratory has to be an accomplice to the ITF)
speak for yourself about what "we already knew".

a lot of people are very vague on the exact roles of WADA/ITF in testing and to what extent of cover-up a silent ban would involve.

that a cover-up would involve the corruption of a technician, rather than just a "failure" to pass on a positive result by the ITF themselves is a subtle but important distinction.

of course it doesn't make a conspiracy impossible but it's somewhat reassuring.
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Old 02-19-2013, 02:15 PM   #1074
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Default Re: Doping in Tennis Thread (No accusations without proof)

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Originally Posted by Henry Chinaski View Post
speak for yourself about what "we already knew".

a lot of people are very vague on the exact roles of WADA/ITF in testing and to what extent of cover-up a silent ban would involve.

that a cover-up would involve the corruption of a technician, rather than just a "failure" to pass on a positive result by the ITF themselves is a subtle but important distinction.

of course it doesn't make a conspiracy impossible but it's somewhat reassuring.
well my last comment was surely a bit quick, because "what we already knew" was that the ITF had to hide it to the WADA, which is what he first says, but it's true that what he adds in his second sentence about the necessity of an accomplice in the laboratory is something I hadn't heard before. I'm still wondering about that last sentence to say the truth because I had never heard that the labs had to report both to the ITF and to the WADA, and I still doubt whether it's what he meant or not.

But he still says it's possible anyway.
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Old 02-19-2013, 04:08 PM   #1075
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Default Re: Doping in Tennis Thread (No accusations without proof)

I would think the lab people would have to be accomplices in any cover up, one way or the other. At the minimum they have to keep their mouths shut and not blow the whistle.
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Old 02-19-2013, 04:28 PM   #1076
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Default Re: Doping in Tennis Thread (No accusations without proof)

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I would think the lab people would have to be accomplices in any cover up, one way or the other. At the minimum they have to keep their mouths shut and not blow the whistle.
yes that's a way to understand what Fahey said, that's why I said that I'm not convinced that what he says here really means a new info about the question whether the laboratory really is obliged to warn the WADA or not.
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Old 02-19-2013, 09:59 PM   #1077
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Default Re: Doping in Tennis Thread (No accusations without proof)

Leaving aside the talk about silent bans, surely there's a topic which hasn't had enough attention on this thread.

Marat Safin. Juicer?

Evidence:
- Client of Del Moral. This of itself should prevent this post being deleted. If being a client of Del Moral is not evidence, I don't know what is.
- Wildly inconsistent performances. Could go from tennis god (vs Sampras USO F, vs Fed AO F) to complete waste of space. Perhaps he didn't take whatever he was on continuously throughout his career?
- Past his peak very early, even by tennis standards. Perhaps decided that juicing was too much hassle/ stress, and wanted to get out while the going was good?

Edit: After posting this, I did a bit of double checking on how strong the Safin-Del Moral link actually was. Some sites report a direct link with Del Moral but others only link Safin to an academy where he worked, e.g.:

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/spor...-1226467652833
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Old 02-19-2013, 10:04 PM   #1078
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Default Re: Doping in Tennis Thread (No accusations without proof)

Yeah being a client of a known doping doctor is a big red flag. I dont think anyone believes in the "I only saw him for training advice" excuses anymore. (not sure if Safin used that excuse, but its the one cyclists usually use)
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Old 02-19-2013, 10:08 PM   #1079
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Default Re: Doping in Tennis Thread (No accusations without proof)

if Safin worked with Del Moral then he was almost certainly doping at some point.

though he probably cancelled out much of the positive effects with all the vodka he drank.
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Old 02-19-2013, 10:11 PM   #1080
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Default Re: Doping in Tennis Thread (No accusations without proof)

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Past his peak very early, even by tennis standards. Perhaps decided that juicing was too much hassle/ stress, and wanted to get out while the going was good?
The going wasn't good at all. After Safin got injured in 2005, he struggled along, never winning a title again.
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