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Old 01-31-2013, 03:56 PM   #46
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Default Re: "Murray's AO chances scuppered by No. 3 seeding"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Han Solo View Post
This narrative has been jumped on by the British press, especially in the wake of Murray's semi-final victory over Federer in AO this year, although I think it really started after his US Open win.

I think it comes from people who don't follow tennis year-round, but catch the headlines from the majors and the Olympics...
well I guess it started far before that and from tennis well-known commentators, remember Simon Reed's famous "Murray is the real number 1" many years ago ?
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Old 01-31-2013, 04:01 PM   #47
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Default Re: "Murray's AO chances scuppered by No. 3 seeding"

2013 GRAND SLAMS favorites,


Australian Open:

1. Djokovic
2. Nadal
3. Murray
4. Federer


Rolland Garros:

1. Nadal (god)
2. Federer (1-1 vs Novak, but has 4 RG finals vs 1)
3. Djokovic (if Novak beat federer again, he will become favorite #2)
4. Ferrer (murray needs to beat this guy on clay first)
5. Murray

Wimbeldon:

1. Federer (count the titles people, I don't care how old he is)
2. Djokovic (cause he pwned nadal 1-0)
3. Nadal
4. Murray


US Open:

1. Djokovic (hard court GOAT)
2. Federer (Fedal is a toss up, but count the titles people)
3. Nadal
4. Murray

Overall:

1. Djokovic [7 pts] (proved hes the man to beat now)
2. Nadal [9 pts] (if we count Masters finals then Fed is still #2 overall)
3. Federer [9 pts] (cause of A0 0-2 vs Nadal and the H2H)
4. Murray [16 pts] (1 good year does not put him above Federer or Nadal sorry)
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Old 01-31-2013, 04:28 PM   #48
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Default Re: "Murray's AO chances scuppered by No. 3 seeding"

Quote:
Originally Posted by TennisPhan1 View Post
2013 GRAND SLAMS favorites,


Australian Open:

1. Djokovic
2. Nadal
3. Murray
4. Federer


Rolland Garros:

1. Nadal (god)
2. Federer (1-1 vs Novak, but has 4 RG finals vs 1)
3. Djokovic (if Novak beat federer again, he will become favorite #2)
4. Ferrer (murray needs to beat this guy on clay first)
5. Murray

Wimbeldon:

1. Federer (count the titles people, I don't care how old he is)
2. Djokovic (cause he pwned nadal 1-0)
3. Nadal
4. Murray


US Open:

1. Djokovic (hard court GOAT)
2. Federer (Fedal is a toss up, but count the titles people)
3. Nadal
4. Murray

Overall:

1. Djokovic [7 pts] (proved hes the man to beat now)
2. Nadal [9 pts] (if we count Masters finals then Fed is still #2 overall)
3. Federer [9 pts] (cause of A0 0-2 vs Nadal and the H2H)
4. Murray [16 pts] (1 good year does not put him above Federer or Nadal sorry)

Couple thoughts....Djokovic is NOT the hard court GOAT. He might be someday, but not right now. It's still Federer. Also Nadal's health should be considered a bit more...he's ahead of Murray in the 2 hard court slams? Seems a little off to me. He hasn't won a title on hardcourts since 2010
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Old 01-31-2013, 04:34 PM   #49
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Lol. The #2 ranking gave fed a much tougher draw than Murray's... What do they complain about?
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Long live King Federer!


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Old 01-31-2013, 04:35 PM   #50
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Default Re: "Murray's AO chances scuppered by No. 3 seeding"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mountaindewslave View Post
Jeremy Lin was playing great ball and sinking insane shots, it was just fun to watch, I don't think overhype. obviously in basketball any change in team dynamic from season to season can totally ruin your mojo.

and Tebow actually has some real talent but the media is out to get him for his over the top religious arc. hard to say who's worse the Brits or the Americans, but at least the Americans have a lot of different sports and players to spread it out between. what do the Brits have, David Beckham, that golfer Rory, and Andy Murray? probably why it seems worse
British have a lot actually, just look at the olympic medal table then we have cricket, rugby, football and other sports americans dont have instead of american football and baseball.
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Old 01-31-2013, 04:35 PM   #51
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Default Re: "Murray's AO chances scuppered by No. 3 seeding"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zepploydath View Post
Except the only thing there that could be viewed as an excuse is me saying about the injuries.

You seem like a half-decent poster so why are you failing to see these statements for what they are? The fact he had a really easy draw didn't help. People always talk about really tough draws but often they are a good thing for these top players because it prepares them for the semifinals and finals. I mention him not front-running well enough and not being ruthless. How the **** is that an excuse? It's Murray's fault that he didn't take the iniative but as a Murray fan I'm taking solace from the fact he lost to Djokovic not because he can't beat him on a regular basis, but that it was down to a small lack of killer instinct that is easily rectified. And why should Murray have won in 3/4? If you watched the match you'd know that Murray dominated the match. 3 sets was very possible and he served for the match in the 4th set so surely 3/4 sets was very possible?

The only thing that I mentioned that could really be an excuse is me saying he had blisters and a sore hamstring. Whether you like it or not blisters hurt and so do pulled/strained/sore muscles. So it's a perfectly legitimate reason for Murray not playing his best. Again, I'm just being positive as a Murray fan saying he'd have had an evener better chance of putting the match away at 1 set up if he had been 100%.
If Murray after these easy draw heeded to play two tough matches and was like a wreck in the final at 25 years,How do you think Fed felt after all these tough matches he played at 31 and over 1000 matches in his body till SF ? You need to beat everyone who in front of you to take the title. Last year at 31 Fed at Wimbledon played so tough matches and SF with Djokovic then Murray in F and took the title.If you want to be a real Champion you need to beat everyone who is in front of you. I have never seen Murray to play real tough match as Fed / Del Potro SF at OG / as Nadal and Djokovic .
You saw how Wawrinka fought against Djokovic with pain or not pain.IMO Murray was so busy in his head how to beat Fed and forgot that he needs to defeat Novak as well to take AO. Murray served with so much power vs Federer
and that tired him.OK he beat Fed and what no title. Berdych beat Fed twice
in GS in what no GS. Tsonga beat Fed as well , I mean Murray is to obsessed with Federer ,Maybe next time when they play Fed will not be so tired but Murray would be tired . So everyone has problems .How many times have you seen Fed to take MTO or to retire in any match and he has played more than 1000 matches. Maybe that says you something
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Old 01-31-2013, 04:47 PM   #52
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Default Re: "Murray's AO chances scuppered by No. 3 seeding"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zepploydath View Post
Except the only thing there that could be viewed as an excuse is me saying about the injuries.

You seem like a half-decent poster so why are you failing to see these statements for what they are? The fact he had a really easy draw didn't help. People always talk about really tough draws but often they are a good thing for these top players because it prepares them for the semifinals and finals. I mention him not front-running well enough and not being ruthless. How the **** is that an excuse? It's Murray's fault that he didn't take the iniative but as a Murray fan I'm taking solace from the fact he lost to Djokovic not because he can't beat him on a regular basis, but that it was down to a small lack of killer instinct that is easily rectified. And why should Murray have won in 3/4? If you watched the match you'd know that Murray dominated the match. 3 sets was very possible and he served for the match in the 4th set so surely 3/4 sets was very possible?

The only thing that I mentioned that could really be an excuse is me saying he had blisters and a sore hamstring. Whether you like it or not blisters hurt and so do pulled/strained/sore muscles. So it's a perfectly legitimate reason for Murray not playing his best. Again, I'm just being positive as a Murray fan saying he'd have had an evener better chance of putting the match away at 1 set up if he had been 100%.
listen, I watched the Fed/Murray match and I've been watching tennis for almost 30 years. Thanks for saying I'm 'a half decent poster' whatever that means. I always try to be objective and logical. I understand that, as a Murray fan, you want him to win everything in 3 easy sets but it doesn't work that way. Fed pushed him. Yeah, Murry could've won in 3/4, Fed could've too ... but it's could've, would've, should've. It didn't happen.

I can see you are very young. Tennis is very complex. You need skills, good movement, athleticism, court coverage, mental strength etc. How do you know that Novak didn't have blisters as well? Murray's blisters were mostly in his head btw.

That's like me blaming wind for Novak's loss at the USO last year. no, I refuse. It was windy for both players and Djokovic lost that match. end of story.

Murray himself didn't offer any excuses in his interview after the match in Melbourne.

at the AO Djokovic was stronger, fitter, played better tennis and that's it.
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Old 01-31-2013, 04:51 PM   #53
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Default Re: "Murray's AO chances scuppered by No. 3 seeding"

Quote:
Originally Posted by pepita1964 View Post
If Murray after these easy draw heeded to play two tough matches and was like a wreck in the final at 25 years,How do you think Fed felt after all these tough matches he played at 31 and over 1000 matches in his body till SF ? You need to beat everyone who in front of you to take the title. Last year at 31 Fed at Wimbledon played so tough matches and SF with Djokovic then Murray in F and took the title.If you want to be a real Champion you need to beat everyone who is in front of you. I have never seen Murray to play real tough match as Fed / Del Potro SF at OG / as Nadal and Djokovic .
You saw how Wawrinka fought against Djokovic with pain or not pain.IMO Murray was so busy in his head how to beat Fed and forgot that he needs to defeat Novak as well to take AO. Murray served with so much power vs Federer
and that tired him.OK he beat Fed and what no title. Berdych beat Fed twice
in GS in what no GS. Tsonga beat Fed as well , I mean Murray is to obsessed with Federer ,Maybe next time when they play Fed will not be so tired but Murray would be tired . So everyone has problems .How many times have you seen Fed to take MTO or to retire in any match and he has played more than 1000 matches. Maybe that says you something
Finally, Pepita and I agree. good post. spot on
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Old 01-31-2013, 05:05 PM   #54
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Default Re: "Murray's AO chances scuppered by No. 3 seeding"

Quote:
Originally Posted by samo7266 View Post
Couple thoughts....Djokovic is NOT the hard court GOAT. He might be someday, but not right now. It's still Federer. Also Nadal's health should be considered a bit more...he's ahead of Murray in the 2 hard court slams? Seems a little off to me. He hasn't won a title on hardcourts since 2010
Djokovic is the hardcourt GOAT in 2013 (2011-2013) is what im saying. Fed is the alltime GOAT on hard and grass.

My list is about Grand Slams and Nadal has had better results on hard at GSs than Murray, but they are close (2-2 H2H). I still give Nadal the edge. Nadal's health will be back to 100% for RG. The question is only: how long will it remain like that?

Can't wait to see the next Nadal vs Murray GS match on hard, because of Murray's improvement.
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Old 01-31-2013, 05:07 PM   #55
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Default Re: "Murray's AO chances scuppered by No. 3 seeding"

Actually, if you consider what seems to be their logics that Murray could not defeat Djokovic because of the tiredness of playing 5 sets against Federer (which Murray actually rather incriminated in his post-match interview rather than the blister),

it's the exact opposite conclusion which should be true : it would be better for Murray to be seeded 3 ... and draw Djokovic in the semi !

As in that case, being untired, he could have defeated Djokovic, from what they think, and then, despite the tiredness, he could have found a way to defeat the "inferior" player Federer

Well, the truth is that since the US Open, the number 2 and number 3 seed being Fed and Murray have already been drawn to face each other in the semis (in the WTF because Murray lost to Djokovic in RR) then it wouldn't have changed anything if one had been seeded 2 rather than the other one.

Besides, Murray was helped by the wind in the US Open, especially against Berdych who was in great form and is not a good match-up for him, and he had an unbelievably easy then untiring draw in Melbourne.
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Old 01-31-2013, 06:00 PM   #56
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Default Re: "Murray's AO chances scuppered by No. 3 seeding"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex999 View Post
listen, I watched the Fed/Murray match and I've been watching tennis for almost 30 years. Thanks for saying I'm 'a half decent poster' whatever that means. I always try to be objective and logical. I understand that, as a Murray fan, you want him to win everything in 3 easy sets but it doesn't work that way. Fed pushed him. Yeah, Murry could've won in 3/4, Fed could've too ... but it's could've, would've, should've. It didn't happen.

I can see you are very young. Tennis is very complex. You need skills, good movement, athleticism, court coverage, mental strength etc. How do you know that Novak didn't have blisters as well? Murray's blisters were mostly in his head btw.

That's like me blaming wind for Novak's loss at the USO last year. no, I refuse. It was windy for both players and Djokovic lost that match. end of story.

Murray himself didn't offer any excuses in his interview after the match in Melbourne.

at the AO Djokovic was stronger, fitter, played better tennis and that's it.
No problem, I just mean you're not one of the trolls that seem to frequent here.

I'm 17 so I am young. I guess as a big Murray fan it's difficult to take another Slam final loss when the last two slam finals he has lost he could have won. Djokovic and Federer obviously deserved the AO and Wimbledon respectively but it's disappointing to see him lose them both from a set up and a tight 2nd set. The blister and hamstring (?) may have played a small part, but all players go through some sort of niggles during the year so it was far from a deciding factor. What does disappoint me as his fan as I've said before is he still seems to play a too negatively when he gets a lead. He's shown he's good enough to get leads over Djokovic, Nadal, Federer or whatever, but he doesn't seem to use the momentum well enough.
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Old 01-31-2013, 06:06 PM   #57
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Default Re: "Murray's AO chances scuppered by No. 3 seeding"

For me Murray is the second best player currently, but is being seeded 3 hurt him? no. It's because he will not fly by Ferrer like Djokovic did, because Ferrer doesn't fear him. If he cant fly by Ferrer on grass how does he expect it will go on hardcourts.

And if he was indeed seeded second the draw is still 2 v 3 so it will still be Federer, and he would have to draw Tsonga in the quarters so it would have been more difficult. Well if he was hurt by his seeding, i don't think Federer would mind being seeded 3rd considering the draw Murray had.
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Old 01-31-2013, 06:09 PM   #58
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Default Re: "Murray's AO chances scuppered by No. 3 seeding"

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Originally Posted by Litotes View Post
The biggest effect is behind us. In the clay season it won't do much difference, Ferrer and Murray are about equal there, I guess. Unless Murray shows improvement. And Federer won't play Miami. So there's only Indian Wells where this will matter until Wimbledon. And in Wimbledon drawing Djokovic is not as big a disadvantage as it is on HC.
Lol, at Ferrer equal to Murray at clay. Ferrer is way better than Murray on clay. Ferrer is closer in grass to Murray than Murray is to Ferrer on clay.
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Old 01-31-2013, 06:11 PM   #59
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Default Re: "Murray's AO chances scuppered by No. 3 seeding"

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Originally Posted by TennisPhan1 View Post
Djokovic is the hardcourt GOAT in 2013 (2011-2013) is what im saying. Fed is the alltime GOAT on hard and grass.

My list is about Grand Slams and Nadal has had better results on hard at GSs than Murray, but they are close (2-2 H2H). I still give Nadal the edge. Nadal's health will be back to 100% for RG. The question is only: how long will it remain like that?

Can't wait to see the next Nadal vs Murray GS match on hard, because of Murray's improvement.
That makes no sense. GOAT stand for "Greatest Of All Time". What you are thinking of would be more like GATM, "Greatest At The Moment" Noone will never be GOAT from being the best the last 25 months alone.
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Old 01-31-2013, 06:14 PM   #60
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Default Re: "Murray's AO chances scuppered by No. 3 seeding"

Quote:
Originally Posted by TennisPhan1 View Post
2013 GRAND SLAMS favorites,


Australian Open:

1. Djokovic
2. Nadal
3. Murray
4. Federer


Rolland Garros:

1. Nadal (god)
2. Federer (1-1 vs Novak, but has 4 RG finals vs 1)
3. Djokovic (if Novak beat federer again, he will become favorite #2)
4. Ferrer (murray needs to beat this guy on clay first)
5. Murray

Wimbeldon:

1. Federer (count the titles people, I don't care how old he is)
2. Djokovic (cause he pwned nadal 1-0)
3. Nadal
4. Murray


US Open:

1. Djokovic (hard court GOAT)
2. Federer (Fedal is a toss up, but count the titles people)
3. Nadal
4. Murray

Overall:

1. Djokovic [7 pts] (proved hes the man to beat now)
2. Nadal [9 pts] (if we count Masters finals then Fed is still #2 overall)
3. Federer [9 pts] (cause of A0 0-2 vs Nadal and the H2H)
4. Murray [16 pts] (1 good year does not put him above Federer or Nadal sorry)
Lol at this... What is relevance of slams won 4 years ago... to say that Federer is above Djokovic in clay is stupid, and to place Murray 4th at grass is even more stupid... Please live in the present, yes they have achieve a lot, but those are irrelevant, the proper basis is at most 2 years ago and that is stretching it... So last year Roddick was more of a favorite over Murray at the 2012 US Open because he has won it, I'm a Roddick fan but i am not delusional.
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