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View Poll Results: Has Djokovic surpassed Edberg and Becker?

He has surpassed both 84 56.76%
He has surpassed neither 47 31.76%
He has surpassed Becker but not Edberg 13 8.78%
He has surpassed Edberg but not Becker 4 2.70%
Voters: 148. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 02-11-2013, 02:55 AM   #481
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Default Re: Has Djokovic surpassed Stefan Edberg and/or Boris Becker?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roy Emerson View Post
Agassi and Wilander(Cash agreed as well) know more about tennis than people who post on this forum. They must know what they are talking about. No male player has won a slam after 4 months of coming back from a 7-8 months injury break.

http://www.iol.co.za/sport/tennis/ne...3#.UQxjeh0TJqU
they both know shit about this though......Nadal will probably win RG this year........
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Old 02-11-2013, 02:56 AM   #482
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Default Re: Has Djokovic surpassed Stefan Edberg and/or Boris Becker?

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Originally Posted by Mr. Oracle View Post
Holy schnike! I am getting vertigo reading this thread . I forgot what my original position was. Listen, I remember all these players even though I was just a very young kid at the end of borg's career. All fanboi-ism aside, I am confident that Novak could have excelled and ADAPTED his game in every era. His athleticism, skills, mental game would have put him past all competition. The fact that he does not serve and volley much today, or is not as good as Edberg in that regard does not matter (I'm using the same reasoning as those who argue that you cannot compare generations). Every blue moon we see a superstar arise, or as Gencic put it: "a golden-child." I'm certain he would rank up their with the Jordans, Gretzkys, Federers. He had the misfortune of having to play against two of the most dominant players in tennis history, and if it weren't for them, his slam count would be double, and he'd probably finish with 20+ slams.
What Novak lacks in big serves and volleying skills, he more than compensates with great returns and passing shots. Big servers are usually bad returners, and Novak's serve is usually good enough against anyone but the best returners in the game. So, I really don't see Novak being consistently outplayed on grass-courts of the past decades. Of course, on a bad day he can lose to someone like Isner on any surface if his serves and returns are a little off. Novak in the 1990:s would have simply focused more on his returns and passing shots, and I don't think that the big servers would have been anymore comfortable with that than with his dogged defence of the last couple of years...
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Old 02-11-2013, 03:03 AM   #483
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Default Re: Has Djokovic surpassed Stefan Edberg and/or Boris Becker?

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Originally Posted by rocketassist View Post
Agassi's career slam is more impressive than Federer or Nadal's easily.
Yep.

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Originally Posted by leng jai View Post
You have to factor in that Federer has win every slam multiple times besides RG while Agassi only won Wimbledon/RG once each.
That's why Federer is a better player than Agassi. But that doesn't mean his career grand slam is more impressive. Agassi lost the 1991 RG final cause of the rain. If not he would have one title in his worst slam and multiple at the rest also. Obviously Federer still would have more titles, as I said, he is a better player.

About the Djokovic vs Agassi and Nadal vs Borg debate. Agassi is still better than Djokovic for the moment and Borg-Nadal is debatable. Nadal will surpass him sooner or later probably but I still give the edge to Borg.
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Old 02-11-2013, 03:04 AM   #484
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Default Re: Has Djokovic surpassed Stefan Edberg and/or Boris Becker?

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Originally Posted by BauerAlmeida View Post
Yep.



That's why Federer is a better player than Agassi. But that doesn't mean his career grand slam is more impressive. Agassi lost the 1991 RG final cause of the rain. If not he would have one title in his worst slam and multiple at the rest also. Obviously Federer still would have more titles, as I said, he is a better player.

About the Djokovic vs Agassi and Nadal vs Borg debate. Agassi is still better than Djokovic for the moment and Borg-Nadal is debatable. Nadal will surpass him sooner or later probably but I still give the edge to Borg.
Agassi lost the 1990 RG final because he was worried his wig would fall.
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Old 02-11-2013, 03:08 AM   #485
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Default Re: Has Djokovic surpassed Stefan Edberg and/or Boris Becker?

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Originally Posted by Orangeball View Post
So "Federer has admitted as much lately" means that his Slams count is not as valuable as Edberg's and Becker's, 9 of his Slams are on slow hard courts ????
No.

It means he is able to acknowledge the fact that he has benefited from the homegenization of surfaces.

Do you disagree with him?
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Old 02-11-2013, 03:10 AM   #486
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Default Re: Has Djokovic surpassed Stefan Edberg and/or Boris Becker?

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Originally Posted by Roy Emerson View Post
Agassi lost the 1990 RG final because he was worried his wig would fall.
Haha, yes. Imagine if he hadn't won it in 1999, he would have retired without the career slam in the tournament he could have won two times by the time he was 21.

Fortunately he could do it with that memorable comeback.
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Old 02-11-2013, 03:18 AM   #487
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Default Re: Has Djokovic surpassed Stefan Edberg and/or Boris Becker?

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Originally Posted by BauerAlmeida View Post
Haha, yes. Imagine if he hadn't won it in 1999, he would have retired without the career slam in the tournament he could have won two times by the time he was 21.

Fortunately he could do it with that memorable comeback.
To think of it, if the man had the attitude and work ethics of the top 4 players of today he would have ended up with more slams for sure. He lost a final for the frigging wig and didn't play Wimby for years because he refused to wear white

Obviously, image was too important to him...not my type of character, that is why I could never really like him, but he really is a tennis legend and it was fun watching him.

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Old 02-11-2013, 03:29 AM   #488
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Default Re: Has Djokovic surpassed Stefan Edberg and/or Boris Becker?

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To think of it, if the man had the attitude and work ethics of the top 4 players of today he would have ended up with more slams for sure. He lost a final for the frigging wig and didn't play Wimby for years because he refused to wear white

Obviously, image was too important to him...not my type of character, that is why I could never really like him, but he really is a tennis legend and it was fun watching him.
No doubt about it. He had years he barely played and his ranking would dropp drastically, injuries, serious lack of proffesionalism in his early years (reason why Bolletieri left him) and he still managed to get 8 slams and countless masters titles (plus the olympic gold, TMC, Davis Cup,etc)

With more work ethic and desire he would have been unstoppable. Put the mental strenght and dedication from his later years (1998-2005) on his peak years game-wise (1994-1995) and you have one of the 2/3 most complete players of all time.
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Old 02-11-2013, 03:29 AM   #489
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Default Re: Has Djokovic surpassed Stefan Edberg and/or Boris Becker?

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Originally Posted by ssin View Post
To think of it, if the man had the attitude and work ethics of the top 4 players of today he would have ended up with more slams for sure. He lost a final for the frigging wig and didn't play Wimby for years because he refused to wear white

Obviously, image was too important to him...not my type of character, that is why I could never really like him, but he really is a tennis legend and it was fun watching him.
Continuing to veer dangerously off topic here (although the topic in itself was, well, a bit shite, anyway):

I remember Agassi's breakthrough major in 1992. All the kids at my school were talking about him in that tournament - he really made the sport popular that year in England (my country had only had Jeremy Bates to set the pulses racing in recent years...). He made tennis exciting to watch.
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Old 02-11-2013, 04:16 AM   #490
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Default Re: Has Djokovic surpassed Stefan Edberg and/or Boris Becker?

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Originally Posted by incognito View Post
Novak in the 1990:s would have simply focused more on his returns and passing shots, and I don't think that the big servers would have been anymore comfortable with that than with his dogged defence of the last couple of years...
Yep. Great point. I see no reason why he and Nadal could not outlast Edberg on the quicker surfaces during his mid 80's to early 90's run. Especially Nadal, who I feel has hit the most spectacular passing shots the sport has ever seen, and rarely misses. What he's done to the offensive game of Fed is unreal. He showed us that defence can trump offence on all surfaces.
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Old 02-11-2013, 04:23 AM   #491
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Default Re: Has Djokovic surpassed Stefan Edberg and/or Boris Becker?

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Originally Posted by Mr. Oracle View Post
Yep. Great point. I see no reason why he and Nadal could not outlast Edberg on the quicker surfaces during his mid 80's to early 90's run. Especially Nadal, who I feel has hit the most spectacular passing shots the sport has ever seen, and rarely misses. What he's done to the offensive game of Fed is unreal. He showed us that defence can trump offence on all surfaces.
The problem with Nadal on those surfaces is he'd shank a lot of balls due to mistiming and the low bounces that make his passing shots so much harder to hit.
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Old 02-11-2013, 04:40 AM   #492
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Default Re: Has Djokovic surpassed Stefan Edberg and/or Boris Becker?

With the surface and racket technology of the Edberg-Becker era I believe Nadal and Djokovic's returns and passing shots wouldn't have the same bite as they currently do. I think the unpredictability of the bounces of the faster surfaces would also cause them to probably mistime some returns. I don't think they'd be blowing anyone off the courts but I think they'll hold their own, maybe as well as Lendl and Connors did during their time.
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Old 02-11-2013, 05:47 AM   #493
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Default Re: Has Djokovic surpassed Stefan Edberg and/or Boris Becker?

It's obvious that cincy is not one of Rafole's preferred tournaments for whatever reason. I think that with the demands of the tour, these players are really having to chose their battles carefully. Despite this, Djoker has gone very deep into the tourney on several occasions. We could look at Nadal's very mediocre results there and conclude that the surface is too difficult for him, or it could be that he's not fully committed to it. Who thinks their results (and particularly nadal's) would improve if this were a grand slam tourney?

an old article but it seems djoker would like some speed too (seems to contradict the first point I made):

http://zeenews.india.com/news/tennis...ck_667251.html

maybe he's sincere and feels he's up for the challenge. i think he would really dictate points with his angles and end points quickly instead of grinding.

I think these blokes would do just fine in the 80s and 90s.
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Old 02-11-2013, 06:47 AM   #494
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Default Re: Has Djokovic surpassed Stefan Edberg and/or Boris Becker?

Can't believe people think half the crap in Druggassi's book is true Maybe if he was on meth while writing it he would have actually been somewhat truthful and even a bit helpful with uncovering some of the current drug problems in tennis today. Instead he says tennis is "relativey clean" despite knowing first hand about the coverup with regards to his own career (and we only know what he has chosen to tell us while he remains involved with the ATP and promoting the game).

Drugassi was not a very good player, let's be honest here people. In today's era of great athletes, do you really think a duck-walking, wig wearing clown who picked up slams in the weakest fields and spent half of his career avoiding his so called "rival" would compete? There are a lot of rose tinted glasses when it comes to Clownpras and Drugassi, but to claim that his career grand slam was superior to Roger's takes the cake
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Old 02-11-2013, 05:56 PM   #495
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Default Re: Has Djokovic surpassed Stefan Edberg and/or Boris Becker?

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Can't believe people think half the crap in Druggassi's book is true Maybe if he was on meth while writing it he would have actually been somewhat truthful and even a bit helpful with uncovering some of the current drug problems in tennis today. Instead he says tennis is "relativey clean" despite knowing first hand about the coverup with regards to his own career (and we only know what he has chosen to tell us while he remains involved with the ATP and promoting the game).

Drugassi was not a very good player, let's be honest here people. In today's era of great athletes, do you really think a duck-walking, wig wearing clown who picked up slams in the weakest fields and spent half of his career avoiding his so called "rival" would compete? There are a lot of rose tinted glasses when it comes to Clownpras and Drugassi, but to claim that his career grand slam was superior to Roger's takes the cake
Agassi played in far more diverse conditions- he had to beat serve-bots and net rushers on low bouncing grass, had to compete with dirtballers on clay and a variety of guys on the hard courts. One thing you could say about Agassi's Wimbledon was he was lucky to grab it just before Sampras went on a roll, same way Roddick managed to snatch his only GS title just before Federer went on his rampage.

35 year old Agassi competed with Fed for three sets in the 2005 USO final but yeah he sucks, innit.

Federer benefitted from a weaker clay era to get to the finals every year- once Guga, Costa, Coria, Gaudio, Corretja, Moya and the rest disappeared the competition got weaker and only Nadal could stop him. Still I was glad for him he got his career slam- as an all-court player he was the most suitable candidate of this era to get it.
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