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View Poll Results: Has Djokovic surpassed Edberg and Becker?

He has surpassed both 83 56.46%
He has surpassed neither 47 31.97%
He has surpassed Becker but not Edberg 13 8.84%
He has surpassed Edberg but not Becker 4 2.72%
Voters: 147. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 02-11-2013, 01:01 AM   #466
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Default Re: Has Djokovic surpassed Stefan Edberg and/or Boris Becker?

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Originally Posted by Caesar1844 View Post
And 20 years ago he would be losing in the first and second rounds of clay tournaments, not making the QFs, even SFs at Roland Garros regularly.

It's all relative.
How the hell do you know that? Wishful thinking

I can say the same, Djokovic would smack John Mac and Borg 30 years ago too, but I won't coz I don't really know. Just get out of this forum will ya? We have enough of your non sense
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Old 02-11-2013, 01:05 AM   #467
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Default Re: Has Djokovic surpassed Stefan Edberg and/or Boris Becker?

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Originally Posted by leng jai View Post
Your constant lust for credit is cute. I guess you glossed over the post where I said Nole had the least inflated slam count of of the top 3. Nadal gets shit for having the majority of his slams on clay. I barely hear anyone discredit Nole for having most of his slams at the AO even though some people seem to think its a worthless slam.
My point is that this back-and-forth surface discussion is pointless. Comparing eras is pointless. What's done is done. Players of the modern game have benefited from the changes in this era. Likewise, players of the previous eras have benefited from certain things (such as winning a slam in a nonexistent field). But nobody ever mentions that. It's always how TODAY'S players are the ones who benefited from this and that.
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Old 02-11-2013, 01:06 AM   #468
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Default Re: Has Djokovic surpassed Stefan Edberg and/or Boris Becker?

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Originally Posted by Han Solo View Post
Look, Djokovic turned professional in 2003 (paying first tour-level event in 2004, making first major appearance in 2005), Federer in 1998. This means that for ALMOST A DECADE they have both played on the tour. They have faced each other 29 times in that period. They have had the same surfaces to contend with, the same racquet technology to benefit from, etc, etc. So yeah, they have for a SIGNIFICANT portion of their careers played together, won major tournaments, etc.

Meanwhile, Sampras retired in 2002 (turning professional back in 1988). Although their careers overlap, Federer and Sampras did not spend much time on tour together, so I think it's fair to state that Federer and Djokovic have shared an era in a sense that Sampras and Federer have not. Sampras played the majority of his tennis before Federer turned pro.

As for Agassi - his career extended into his mid-thirties, having turned pro back in 1986, he was still playing pro tennis in 2006(!!)

Anyway, I'm not trying to discredit Djokovic's majors, nor Federer's, nor anyone else's. But they have benefited from the fact that conditions across the majors are more similar now. Federer has admitted as much publicly.
So "Federer has admitted as much lately" means that his Slams count is not as valuable as Edberg's and Becker's, 9 of his Slams are on slow hard courts ????
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Old 02-11-2013, 01:10 AM   #469
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Default Re: Has Djokovic surpassed Stefan Edberg and/or Boris Becker?

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Originally Posted by MIMIC View Post
I wonder if anyone is going to give Djokovic any credit for winning 4 Australian Opens in an era where ALL the top players were present, while in previous eras, practically nobody showed up and there was zero competition.

Probably not
It's not that nobody is giving Djokovic credit for winning four Australian Opens but, at the same time, no one is devaluing his slams despite 66% of them being at one major. At best Novak is tied with two others for most AOs – a record that was matched in 2010; and now 2013. It's a great achievement but not really groundbreaking when you think of other records that have been matched/broken but stood for longer. A similar record – five US Opens – was most recently matched in 2002 by Sampras then matched in 2008 by Federer – but there wasn't much ballyhoo around it. If Novak wins it again next year, there'll probably be greater talk about the achievement.
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Old 02-11-2013, 01:10 AM   #470
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Default Re: Has Djokovic surpassed Stefan Edberg and/or Boris Becker?

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Originally Posted by Alex999 View Post
yeah, agree with you here Roy on both points. Nole does have a very good chance to surpass Agassi, but we'll have to wait and see . I think Tektonac's opinion is based on what Agassi said about Novak (something like Nole is a much better player than him), but again I refuse to compare players from different eras. At the moment, Agassi is a much more accomplished player than Djokovic.
Another good point Alex, we will have to wait and see, and at the end of the day, the Slams count is what matters most when deciding greatness in tennis history, Djokovic has another 5-6 years to add more Slams to his tally, even more years I hope....
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Old 02-11-2013, 01:11 AM   #471
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Default Re: Has Djokovic surpassed Stefan Edberg and/or Boris Becker?

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Originally Posted by Saberq View Post
Djokovic is a better player than Agassi that much is clear for anyone who watched them both.........he will need to win some more if he wants to pass him in the record books..........and Nadal is better than Borg in every way.........
Even Agassi himself said that Djokovic is better than himself
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Old 02-11-2013, 01:15 AM   #472
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Default Re: Has Djokovic surpassed Stefan Edberg and/or Boris Becker?

Holy schnike! I am getting vertigo reading this thread . I forgot what my original position was. Listen, I remember all these players even though I was just a very young kid at the end of borg's career. All fanboi-ism aside, I am confident that Novak could have excelled and ADAPTED his game in every era. His athleticism, skills, mental game would have put him past all competition. The fact that he does not serve and volley much today, or is not as good as Edberg in that regard does not matter (I'm using the same reasoning as those who argue that you cannot compare generations). Every blue moon we see a superstar arise, or as Gencic put it: "a golden-child." I'm certain he would rank up their with the Jordans, Gretzkys, Federers. He had the misfortune of having to play against two of the most dominant players in tennis history, and if it weren't for them, his slam count would be double, and he'd probably finish with 20+ slams.
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Old 02-11-2013, 01:17 AM   #473
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Default Re: Has Djokovic surpassed Stefan Edberg and/or Boris Becker?

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Originally Posted by Orangeball View Post
Even Agassi himself said that Djokovic is better than himself
And he didn't want to bring up Edberg and Becker out of respect...
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Old 02-11-2013, 01:20 AM   #474
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Default Re: Has Djokovic surpassed Stefan Edberg and/or Boris Becker?

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Originally Posted by MIMIC View Post
My point is that this back-and-forth surface discussion is pointless. Comparing eras is pointless. What's done is done. Players of the modern game have benefited from the changes in this era. Likewise, players of the previous eras have benefited from certain things (such as winning a slam in a nonexistent field). But nobody ever mentions that. It's always how TODAY'S players are the ones who benefited from this and that.
I'm pretty sure the AO's lack of prestige has been mentioned umpteen times on this board. If you think this topic is pointless then stop posting in the thread. It's pretty obvious that the players of today (especially the top players) had it mch easier than the players 15-20 years ago.
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Old 02-11-2013, 01:37 AM   #475
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Default Re: Has Djokovic surpassed Stefan Edberg and/or Boris Becker?

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Originally Posted by Mr. Oracle View Post
Holy schnike! I am getting vertigo reading this thread . I forgot what my original position was. Listen, I remember all these players even though I was just a very young kid at the end of borg's career. All fanboi-ism aside, I am confident that Novak could have excelled and ADAPTED his game in every era. His athleticism, skills, mental game would have put him past all competition. The fact that he does not serve and volley much today, or is not as good as Edberg in that regard does not matter (I'm using the same reasoning as those who argue that you cannot compare generations). Every blue moon we see a superstar arise, or as Gencic put it: "a golden-child." I'm certain he would rank up their with the Jordans, Gretzkys, Federers. He had the misfortune of having to play against two of the most dominant players in tennis history, and if it weren't for them, his slam count would be double, and he'd probably finish with 20+ slams.
Not to be picky about details but if Novak played in Borg's era, wouldn't he be disadvantaged because of his gluten allergy, which may not have been diagnosed or treated at that time; and the egg machine wouldn't have been invented yet. I'm not doubting his tennis acumen and ability, just his athleticism would have been compromised by the limited technology.
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Old 02-11-2013, 01:41 AM   #476
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Default Re: Has Djokovic surpassed Stefan Edberg and/or Boris Becker?

I don't know how Novak would fare in another era but he surely is a very adaptable player. It is clear watching his way to the top the he constantly adapted his game to surfaces, to opponents, to equipment, to balls and managed to reach the top. But here are some guesses.

He just isn't a bad clay courter and wouldn't be bad on clay in any era. He slides, he moves fast and he learned tennis on clay.

As for the slowness of the hard courts, I believe that Novak's game might even benefit from speeding them up just a little bit at this particular moment. He would need to improve his serve and net play, which he certainly can, and he moves like a panther anyway. No other apparent weaknesses that would really compromise his performance on any hard court.

Maybe he would never win Wimby in another era, just like Lendl never did. Maybe, or he would still find a way to adapt. Adaptability is his main strength. But again, I say maybe he would never win Wimby, he did get one, who knows if he will ever get another.

Did Nadal really benefit that much from the slow court era, and he must be the most obvious choice when picking a player who would benefit the most from slow courts? He would be a multiple RG winner in any era, and his slam count on other surfaces is still not that impressive for a living tennis legend.

A moot point, all in all.

As for the main topic, Novak might not have surpassed Edberg and/or Becker but it seems he will, by any kind of measures, and it seems it will happen soon
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Old 02-11-2013, 01:45 AM   #477
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Default Re: Has Djokovic surpassed Stefan Edberg and/or Boris Becker?

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Originally Posted by BauerAlmeida View Post
You can look it the other way around too.


From 1970 to 2008. Only one player won the calendar grand slam. If Djokovic wins RG this year (nothing very unlikely), he will be the 3rd player to achieve it in 6 years.

Borg, McEnroe, Lendl, Connors, Sampras, etc. All failed to achieve it. Not precisely random mugs.
Djokovic winning RG this year is almost a certainty. Agassi and Wilander said Nadal won't even be a contender at RG this year. The only contenders they see are Djokovic, Murray and Federer. Djokovic will beat Federer and Murray at RG since he is better on clay than them now. I think Nadal will lose early at RG, R16 or QF at best. So this year we will see a third player complete the Career Slam in 4 years. Homogenization of the surfaces.
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Old 02-11-2013, 01:47 AM   #478
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Default Re: Has Djokovic surpassed Stefan Edberg and/or Boris Becker?

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Djokovic winning Rg this year is almsot a certainty. Agassi and Wilander said Nadal won't even be a contender at RG this year. The only contenders they see are Djokovic, Murray and Federer. They must be unto something because this Nadal I saw today won't even be reaching the RG final this year.
Never rule out Rafa as the winner of RG Don't listen to Agassi and Wilander.
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Old 02-11-2013, 01:51 AM   #479
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Default Re: Has Djokovic surpassed Stefan Edberg and/or Boris Becker?

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Never rule out Rafa as the winner of RG Don't listen to Agassi and Wilander.
Agassi and Wilander(Cash agreed as well) know more about tennis than people who post on this forum. They must know what they are talking about. No male player has won a slam after 4 months of coming back from a 7-8 months injury break.

http://www.iol.co.za/sport/tennis/ne...3#.UQxjeh0TJqU
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Old 02-11-2013, 01:55 AM   #480
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Default Re: Has Djokovic surpassed Stefan Edberg and/or Boris Becker?

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Agassi and Wilander(Cash agreed as well) know more about tennis than people who post on this forum. They must know what they are talking about. No male player has won a slam after 4 months of coming back from a 6-8 months injury break.
I'm not saying you are not right, but Nadal is a freak of nature, has won most RGs in history, and is not to be ruled out ever as a RG contender as long as he plays. We are not dealing with an ordinary player here.
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