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View Poll Results: Has Djokovic surpassed Edberg and Becker?

He has surpassed both 84 56.76%
He has surpassed neither 47 31.76%
He has surpassed Becker but not Edberg 13 8.78%
He has surpassed Edberg but not Becker 4 2.70%
Voters: 148. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 02-10-2013, 11:15 PM   #451
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Default Re: Has Djokovic surpassed Stefan Edberg and/or Boris Becker?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Time Violation View Post
Yea sure, you don't like the question = question not legit I'll ask again - why Murray has no clay finals so far and why Nadal has had moderate success on HC compared to his massive list of clay court achievements?
Because there are still minor differences in surfaces. Key word there being 'minor'. If top players are evenly matched enough, the surface may provide a slight edge.

I have never claimed that the surfaces are all completely identical. Just that they are far, far less different than they used to be, thus allowing far more success across different surfaces for the top players. This is obvious and anyone who argues against it is merely opting out of reality.
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Old 02-10-2013, 11:31 PM   #452
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Default Re: Has Djokovic surpassed Stefan Edberg and/or Boris Becker?

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Because there are still minor differences in surfaces. Key word there being 'minor'. If top players are evenly matched enough, the surface may provide a slight edge..
So, because of a minor difference, Murray has 1 slam, a couple of finals and a bunch of Masters on hard vs. no titles, no finals on clay. Wow, isn't it amazing what a minor difference and slight edge can do?
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Old 02-10-2013, 11:40 PM   #453
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Default Re: Has Djokovic surpassed Stefan Edberg and/or Boris Becker?

And 20 years ago he would be losing in the first and second rounds of clay tournaments, not making the QFs, even SFs at Roland Garros regularly.

It's all relative.
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Old 02-10-2013, 11:54 PM   #454
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Default Re: Has Djokovic surpassed Stefan Edberg and/or Boris Becker?

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And 20 years ago he would be losing in the first and second rounds of clay tournaments, not making the QFs, even SFs at Roland Garros regularly.
I guess you have a crystal ball to confirm that?
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Old 02-11-2013, 12:05 AM   #455
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Default Re: Has Djokovic surpassed Stefan Edberg and/or Boris Becker?

Look at court speeds, bounces, etc. Surfaces are infinitely more similar today than they were 20 years ago. It's undeniable fact.

Logic dictates that if such minor surface differences cause Murray some problems, then greater differences would cause him more problems. Certainly that is supported by the greater allround performances of players in the last decade, which has conveniently coincided with court homogenisation.

But by all means, stick your head in the sand.
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Old 02-11-2013, 12:17 AM   #456
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Default Re: Has Djokovic surpassed Stefan Edberg and/or Boris Becker?

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Originally Posted by Time Violation View Post
So, because of a minor difference, Murray has 1 slam, a couple of finals and a bunch of Masters on hard vs. no titles, no finals on clay. Wow, isn't it amazing what a minor difference and slight edge can do?
You can look it the other way around too.


From 1970 to 2008. Only one player won the calendar grand slam. If Djokovic wins RG this year (nothing very unlikely), he will be the 3rd player to achieve it in 6 years.

Borg, McEnroe, Lendl, Connors, Sampras, etc. All failed to achieve it. Not precisely random mugs.
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Old 02-11-2013, 12:23 AM   #457
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Default Re: Has Djokovic surpassed Stefan Edberg and/or Boris Becker?

Agassi's career slam is more impressive than Federer or Nadal's easily.
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Old 02-11-2013, 12:26 AM   #458
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Default Re: Has Djokovic surpassed Stefan Edberg and/or Boris Becker?

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Agassi's career slam is more impressive than Federer or Nadal's easily.
You have to factor in that Federer has win every slam multiple times besides RG while Agassi only won Wimbledon/RG once each.
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Old 02-11-2013, 12:28 AM   #459
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Default Re: Has Djokovic surpassed Stefan Edberg and/or Boris Becker?

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You have to factor in that Federer has win every slam multiple times besides RG while Agassi only won Wimbledon/RG once each.
Also Roger has 5 finals in RG.
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Old 02-11-2013, 12:29 AM   #460
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Default Re: Has Djokovic surpassed Stefan Edberg and/or Boris Becker?

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You have to factor in that Federer has win every slam multiple times besides RG while Agassi only won Wimbledon/RG once each.
Again though things were a lot more diverse back then- beating a bunch of huge servers on fast grass was mighty impressive and 1999 was similar to Fed's own win- the title favourite Guga got shocked by Medvedev who subsequently went on to be Agassi's beaten final opponent.
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Old 02-11-2013, 12:31 AM   #461
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Default Re: Has Djokovic surpassed Stefan Edberg and/or Boris Becker?

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Again though things were a lot more diverse back then- beating a bunch of huge servers on fast grass was mighty impressive and 1999 was similar to Fed's own win- the title favourite Guga got shocked by Medvedev who subsequently went on to be Agassi's beaten final opponent.
Yeah but you have to weigh up if winning slams multiple times and having countless finals is more impressive than winning one of each in a more diverse era.
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Old 02-11-2013, 12:42 AM   #462
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Default Re: Has Djokovic surpassed Stefan Edberg and/or Boris Becker?

I wonder if anyone is going to give Djokovic any credit for winning 4 Australian Opens in an era where ALL the top players were present, while in previous eras, practically nobody showed up and there was zero competition.

Probably not
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Old 02-11-2013, 12:46 AM   #463
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Default Re: Has Djokovic surpassed Stefan Edberg and/or Boris Becker?

Your constant lust for credit is cute. I guess you glossed over the post where I said Nole had the least inflated slam count of of the top 3. Nadal gets shit for having the majority of his slams on clay. I barely hear anyone discredit Nole for having most of his slams at the AO even though some people seem to think its a worthless slam.
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Old 02-11-2013, 12:52 AM   #464
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Default Re: Has Djokovic surpassed Stefan Edberg and/or Boris Becker?

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Originally Posted by Time Violation View Post
Yea sure, you don't like the question = question not legit I'll ask again - why Murray has no clay finals so far and why Nadal has had moderate success on HC compared to his massive list of clay court achievements?
nice ownage
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Old 02-11-2013, 12:54 AM   #465
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Default Re: Has Djokovic surpassed Stefan Edberg and/or Boris Becker?

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Your constant lust for credit is cute. I guess you glossed over the post where I said Nole had the least inflated slam count of of the top 3. Nadal gets shit for having the majority of his slams on clay. I barely hear anyone discredit Nole for having most of his slams at the AO even though some people seem to think its a worthless slam.
Yep it's a fair total and 4 slow hardcourt slams (maybe 5 considering Ashe's speed nowadays) is what you would expect from him.
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