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View Poll Results: Has Djokovic surpassed Edberg and Becker?

He has surpassed both 84 56.76%
He has surpassed neither 47 31.76%
He has surpassed Becker but not Edberg 13 8.78%
He has surpassed Edberg but not Becker 4 2.70%
Voters: 148. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 02-09-2013, 11:53 AM   #376
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Default Re: Has Djokovic surpassed Stefan Edberg and/or Boris Becker?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Caesar1844 View Post
No arguments here.


Wut? Nobody is using it as an argument to prove Becker/Edberg is better than Djokovic. It's just being pointed out that due to the massive change in conditions, it's incorrect to say that Djokovic surpassing them in slam count automatically means he is better.
So it's incorrect to say Federer and Nadal are better than Djokovic because they have more Slams?
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Old 02-09-2013, 11:56 AM   #377
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Default Re: Has Djokovic surpassed Stefan Edberg and/or Boris Becker?

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stop posting.............stop fucking posting ............just stop dont type anymore you epic useless troll


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Originally Posted by Orangeball View Post
So it's incorrect to say Federer and Nadal are better than Djokovic because they have more Slams?
Reread the post you quoted.
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Old 02-09-2013, 12:14 PM   #378
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Default Re: Has Djokovic surpassed Stefan Edberg and/or Boris Becker?

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Originally Posted by Caesar1844 View Post



Reread the post you quoted.
Re read your own post

Now it's my turn, yes Djokovic has equalled Becker and Edberg based on their respective Slams count, he's is much better than them overall. Stop your surface homogeneity craps.
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Old 02-09-2013, 02:20 PM   #379
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Default Re: Has Djokovic surpassed Stefan Edberg and/or Boris Becker?

"at every single slam you see the vast majority of seeds playing to their ranking. 10 years ago it just wasn't the case. You'd have low and unseeded players in SFs, top seeds regularly losing in the first few rounds, and so forth."

you just gave an definition of weak era, lower ranked players were in the semis ( tbh i think all that weak era BS are just that-BS, but tougt i mentioned it )
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Old 02-09-2013, 02:29 PM   #380
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Default Re: Has Djokovic surpassed Stefan Edberg and/or Boris Becker?

Every time I come back to this thread my palm strikes my face with ferocious impact. It's really not that complicated...
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Old 02-09-2013, 02:39 PM   #381
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Default Re: Has Djokovic surpassed Stefan Edberg and/or Boris Becker?

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Originally Posted by Hewitt =Legend View Post
Every time I come back to this thread my palm strikes my face with ferocious impact. It's really not that complicated...
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And, Roger Federer ranks 5th. But any problem cannot be found? is there nothing?  

Because, Djokovic, Murray, and Nadal certainly win Roger?

Even David Ferrer? (Roger 14 - 0 David)

Or, Roger loses even before QF? lol

argument.
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Old 02-09-2013, 07:05 PM   #382
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Default Re: Has Djokovic surpassed Stefan Edberg and/or Boris Becker?

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"at every single slam you see the vast majority of seeds playing to their ranking. 10 years ago it just wasn't the case. You'd have low and unseeded players in SFs, top seeds regularly losing in the first few rounds, and so forth."

you just gave an definition of weak era, lower ranked players were in the semis ( tbh i think all that weak era BS are just that-BS, but tougt i mentioned it )
No way. Lower ranked players playing in in the semis just meant you had surface specialists. Clay court players who couldn´t cut in on carpets, but could beat the big servers on dirt. Serve&volley- players who excelled on grass, but couldn´t beat the grinders on clay. If anything, that´s the definition of an interesting era with different surfaces.
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Old 02-09-2013, 09:21 PM   #383
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Default Re: Has Djokovic surpassed Stefan Edberg and/or Boris Becker?

During Becker & Edberg's times, all surfaces were really quick, I remember from watching on TV. Except clay where they really struggled. They were really good on fast courts but sucked on slow courts. If they played in this era, they will struggle to win any slams on these surfaces. Vice versa, put Djokovic in a time machine into late 80's and 90's, he will struggle to win slams on those quick surfaces. His best bet will be French Open. That is the reality of the situation, guys. How can you compare apples and oranges. Those were serve volley players, different breed altogether, which is EXTINCT today.
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Old 02-09-2013, 09:54 PM   #384
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Default Re: Has Djokovic surpassed Stefan Edberg and/or Boris Becker?

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Originally Posted by Caesar1844 View Post
It's representative of an era when surfaces required even the best players to be specialists, either in full or in part. The modern game allows players to play one game on all surfaces and the best players will be very successful on all of them.

To say that the top players have slight preferences for one surface over another is proof that homogenisation is a myth is just silly. It's not just about the top 4 - at every single slam you see the vast majority of seeds playing to their ranking. 10 years ago it just wasn't the case. You'd have low and unseeded players in SFs, top seeds regularly losing in the first few rounds, and so forth.

Modern surfaces are designed to be predictable and put the same players in a position to win every single tournament. Why? Big names bring dollars. It's in the best interests of organisers to make sure that the top players have the chance to win as many tournaments as possible. And the top players benefit from that. Hence their bigger slam counts.
Please explain why this logic applies to the ATP but not the WTA.

When the top GUYS lose early, it's a testament to how strong the era is. But when the top GIRLS lose early, it's not.

You got some 'splainin to do.
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Old 02-09-2013, 10:03 PM   #385
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Default Re: Has Djokovic surpassed Stefan Edberg and/or Boris Becker?

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Originally Posted by MIMIC View Post
Please explain why this logic applies to the ATP but not the WTA.

When the top GUYS lose early, it's a testament to how strong the era is. But when the top GIRLS lose early, it's not.

You got some 'splainin to do.
Bit of a simplistic comparison, to say the least.

The reason the modern WTA has seeds losing early is because players' form is so unpredictable. This is because the women don't have strong serves to get them out of trouble when they are playing badly, and a lot of the top players hit very flat which means they are very hot and cold.

The reason that seeds lost early in the 90s was in large part because different players had different advantages over each other depending on the surface.
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Old 02-09-2013, 10:08 PM   #386
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Default Re: Has Djokovic surpassed Stefan Edberg and/or Boris Becker?

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Originally Posted by Caesar1844 View Post
Bit of a simplistic comparison, to say the least.

The reason the modern WTA has seeds losing early is because players' form is so unpredictable. This is because the women don't have strong serves to get them out of trouble when they are playing badly, and a lot of the top players hit very flat which means they are very hot and cold.

The reason that seeds lost early in the 90s was in large part because different players had different advantages over each other depending on the surface.
So you take the form of the WOMEN into consideration, but not the men. Good job.

Top form, always playing well = weak era (if you play on the ATP)
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Old 02-09-2013, 10:11 PM   #387
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Default Re: Has Djokovic surpassed Stefan Edberg and/or Boris Becker?

Are you simple?

I never said it is currently a weak era. I just said that current slam counts for the top players are inflated. If you can't discern the difference between those two things then perhaps you need to go back to elementary school.
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Old 02-09-2013, 10:15 PM   #388
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Default Re: Has Djokovic surpassed Stefan Edberg and/or Boris Becker?

To be fair Djokovic's slam count isn't really inflated. Obviously the Wimbledon title looks funny but the rest make sense. Only Federer and Nadal's slam counts could be seen as inflated IMO.
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Old 02-09-2013, 10:17 PM   #389
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Default Re: Has Djokovic surpassed Stefan Edberg and/or Boris Becker?

The reason WTA is so fluctuating and has no dominance is they're all ball bashing error-making mugs and the one who makes less mistakes wins, whereas when there were a variety of slam winners in 2000-03 the quality of the tennis was still excellent. Hope this helps, MIMIC, although getting through to you is hard, I know.
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Old 02-09-2013, 10:21 PM   #390
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Default Re: Has Djokovic surpassed Stefan Edberg and/or Boris Becker?

First off it's the lack of a serve that creates all the clowning on the WTA. The male players would likely be just as bad if they didn't have 200km bombs to get them out of trouble half the time. Secondly modern WTA has turned into a ball bashing power game with woeful level of control. I mean I love Lisicki but her tennis is the epitome of facepalm and she's basically your typical style of play on the women's tour. That shit isn't going to win 3+ matches in a row too often.
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