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View Poll Results: Has Djokovic surpassed Edberg and Becker?

He has surpassed both 84 56.76%
He has surpassed neither 47 31.76%
He has surpassed Becker but not Edberg 13 8.78%
He has surpassed Edberg but not Becker 4 2.70%
Voters: 148. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 02-07-2013, 10:28 PM   #346
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Default Re: Has Djokovic surpassed Stefan Edberg and/or Boris Becker?

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Originally Posted by Corey Feldman View Post
Federer is arguably the GOAT?

please never post again.



Arguably.
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Old 02-07-2013, 10:29 PM   #347
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Default Re: Has Djokovic surpassed Stefan Edberg and/or Boris Becker?

You can be quiet as well with that avatar of Nadal and his bald patch
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Old 02-07-2013, 10:33 PM   #348
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Default Re: Has Djokovic surpassed Stefan Edberg and/or Boris Becker?

I guess he did it already. Though, it`s always great to exaggerate "old good times" - no surprise that someone will still consider these two legends over Nole even if he takes 2-3 more Slams. Only after retirement people usually can fairly appreciate the amount a player did to sport and his place in it. For example, I`m not sure majority realises to the end what a player Fed is (for game including). It`ll happen once he calls it a day.

I think next year Djokovic will be "targeting" Agassi.
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Old 02-07-2013, 10:48 PM   #349
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Default Re: Has Djokovic surpassed Stefan Edberg and/or Boris Becker?

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I just think that the way the game is played currently is very bland and uninteresting, encourages dominance by a small group of players and devalues multiple slam counts. That's not the fault of any of the players.
It's ok if you think game is uninteresting - that's always been a subjective thing. Slam devaluation together with the patronizing "it's not your fault" is pure bs.
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Old 02-07-2013, 11:40 PM   #350
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Default Re: Has Djokovic surpassed Stefan Edberg and/or Boris Becker?

I just want to point something out (it's very obvious btw). Nole, Fed and Rafa didn't slow down the courts. Nobody asked them, they have nothing to do with it. It's not their fault that current courts are what they are. They do their best under the current conditions. I realize that many guys here would like to see more variety but it is what it is and it's the same for all players. So bringing that as an argument that a player A from the past is better than player B from the present is kinda silly. I know many guys are nostalgic but let's be objective and logical here.
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Old 02-07-2013, 11:42 PM   #351
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Default Re: Has Djokovic surpassed Stefan Edberg and/or Boris Becker?

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Slam devaluation together with the patronizing "it's not your fault" is pure bs.
No it's not. It's pretty clear that the homogenisation of the tour together with the emphasis on defensive tennis has decreased the effectiveness of specialists, reduced the likelihood of upsets, and enabled greater year-round dominance by the best players.

If you can't see how that effectively translates into the devaluation of slam counts I'm not sure what to say.
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Old 02-07-2013, 11:45 PM   #352
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Default Re: Has Djokovic surpassed Stefan Edberg and/or Boris Becker?

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I just want to point something out (it's very obvious btw). Nole, Fed and Rafa didn't slow down the courts. Nobody asked them, they have nothing to do with it. It's not their fault that current courts are what they are. They do their best under the current conditions. I realize that many guys here would like to see more variety but it is what it is and it's the same for all players.
No arguments here.

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So bringing that as an argument that a player A from the past is better than player B from the present is kinda silly.
Wut? Nobody is using it as an argument to prove Becker/Edberg is better than Djokovic. It's just being pointed out that due to the massive change in conditions, it's incorrect to say that Djokovic surpassing them in slam count automatically means he is better.
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Old 02-07-2013, 11:46 PM   #353
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Default Re: Has Djokovic surpassed Stefan Edberg and/or Boris Becker?

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Originally Posted by Sanya View Post
I guess he did it already. Though, it`s always great to exaggerate "old good times" - no surprise that someone will still consider these two legends over Nole even if he takes 2-3 more Slams. Only after retirement people usually can fairly appreciate the amount a player did to sport and his place in it. For example, I`m not sure majority realises to the end what a player Fed is (for game including). It`ll happen once he calls it a day.

I think next year Djokovic will be "targeting" Agassi.
This year he'll surpass Wilander and Mac.

Next year he goes for Connors and Agassi, although it will be very hard given some of their achievments (Connors 200+ weeks at 1 and Agassi's Golden slam).
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Old 02-08-2013, 12:06 AM   #354
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Default Re: Has Djokovic surpassed Stefan Edberg and/or Boris Becker?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Corey Feldman View Post
Federer is arguably the GOAT?

please never post again.
There's no way to say so definitively. Aside from changed conditions, a lot of Federer's records are not able to be compared to his main rivals.

Take for example Slam count - the modern yardstick for greatness. Federer has 17, Laver has 11. Easy comparison, right? Not really, because counting Slams is a pretty modern phenomenon. After Rod Laver won his professional CYGS he pretty much ignored Slams - he never played more than one or two a year, and didn't take them very seriously. They didn't pay very well, and he'd already won them all in the same year, so why bother?

Not saying Laver is better than Federer, just saying that it's not really possible to make an objective comparison. You can make arguments for a number of players, of whom Laver and Federer are two.
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Old 02-08-2013, 12:10 AM   #355
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Default Re: Has Djokovic surpassed Stefan Edberg and/or Boris Becker?

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Originally Posted by Caesar1844 View Post
There's no way to say so definitively. Aside from changed conditions, a lot of Federer's records are not able to be compared to his main rivals.

Take for example Slam count - the modern yardstick for greatness. Federer has 17, Laver has 11. Easy comparison, right? Not really, because nobody really cared about how many Slams people won back in the day. After Rod Laver won his professional CYGS he pretty much ignored Slams. After that he never played more than one or two a year, and didn't take them seriously. They didn't pay very well, and he'd already won them all in the same year, so why bother?

Not saying Laver is better than Federer, just saying that it's not really possible to make an objective comparison. You can make arguments for a number of players, of whom Laver and Federer are two.
Exactly, it hard to compare eras. Apart from Laver and Federer you could make an argument for Gonsales being the GOAT.
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Old 02-08-2013, 12:19 AM   #356
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Default Re: Has Djokovic surpassed Stefan Edberg and/or Boris Becker?

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Arguably.
No arguing here. He is the GOAT.
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Say what you want about Federer playing Baghdatis and Gonzo in AO finals... But at least he won them
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Old 02-08-2013, 12:26 AM   #357
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Default Re: Has Djokovic surpassed Stefan Edberg and/or Boris Becker?

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Exactly, it hard to compare eras. Apart from Laver and Federer you could make an argument for Gonsales being the GOAT.
From that era I think Laver, Rosewall and Gonzalez all have potential claims to being the greatest. Their primes never really overlapped with each other, and the amateur/pro split makes it very hard to compare them.

Pretty much every era has a contender for GOAT. It's one of the great things about the sport.
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Old 02-08-2013, 12:30 AM   #358
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Default Re: Has Djokovic surpassed Stefan Edberg and/or Boris Becker?

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Originally Posted by Caesar1844 View Post
No it's not. It's pretty clear that the homogenisation of the tour together with the emphasis on defensive tennis has decreased the effectiveness of specialists, reduced the likelihood of upsets, and enabled greater year-round dominance by the best players.

If you can't see how that effectively translates into the devaluation of slam counts I'm not sure what to say.
Sure... when Sampras was dominating because the courts were well suited to his game, that was fine, when Fed&co dominate because these courts are suitable to their game, then it's devaluation Just because you dislike something doesn't mean it's worth less - it's fine if you want to be a self-proclaimed judge&jury, but it's just a lot of hot air.
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Old 02-08-2013, 12:30 AM   #359
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Default Re: Has Djokovic surpassed Stefan Edberg and/or Boris Becker?

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From that era I think Laver, Rosewall and Gonzalez all have potential claims to being the greatest. Their primes never really overlapped with each other, and the amateur/pro split makes it very hard to compare them.

Pretty much every era has a contender for GOAT. It's one of the great things about the sport.
Yes. And it's unfair to say Laver has only 11 grand slams and leave out all the pro slams he won that were as important as the GS (same for the other players from that era).
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Old 02-08-2013, 12:32 AM   #360
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Default Re: Has Djokovic surpassed Stefan Edberg and/or Boris Becker?

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Sure... when Sampras was dominating because the courts were well suited to his game, that was fine, when Fed&co dominate because these courts are suitable to their game, then it's devaluation Just because you dislike something doesn't mean it's worth less - it's fine if you want to be a self-proclaimed judge&jury, but it's just a lot of hot air.
Sampras never dominated anywhere but grass. He won many HC slams but he was never dominant on the surface- he lost twice at the USO to Jaime Yzaga.
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