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Old 01-26-2013, 08:55 PM   #16
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Default Re: What Murray needs to surpass Safin and Hewitt?

How can you compare Safin and even Hewitt to Murray?

Firstly, Safin and Hewitt were during their primes when surfaces were diverse, but becoming homogenised. Murray plays in an era where everything suits him. You can say Murray plays his best tennis on faster surfaces, but it's not as simple as that. If there were varied surfaces, Murray would have to face a tour of varied styles, on top of being more prone to being blasted off the court by a hot player. And this is without having to adjust to the surface itself.

Then we have the fact that Safin was genetically predisposed to being someone who wouldn't challenge consistently for Grand Slams. No man before or after Safin of his stature has achieved what he has in the game. To avoid writing an essay on the subject, try coming to your own conclusions from this. Then we have countless injuries. In 2001, Safin suffered elbow and primarily back problems that hampered him through most of the season and when he was fully fit, had no rhythm nor confidence. In 2003 he suffered a wrist injury which ruined his entire season. In 2005 he suffered the injury which made him a mediocre player. The Australian Open was his last title, just turning 25 years old.

To achieve what he did during the matter of 4 seasons says it all.

And in my opinion, Murray has a massive physical advantage over Hewitt which is the only reason he can even be considered in the same breath as him.

If we're talking about achievements here, then you wouldn't need to start a thread about it. But if we're talking ability, then these variables need to be considered and are very much valid.
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Old 01-26-2013, 09:04 PM   #17
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Default Re: What Murray needs to surpass Safin and Hewitt?

Yeh he'll definately surpass Safin if he wins tommorow.

IMO Andy's 8 MS titles >> Hewitts 2 MS and 2 Masters cups.
I think to clearly surpass Hewitt he needs 1 week at #1.
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Old 01-26-2013, 09:06 PM   #18
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Default Re: What Murray needs to surpass Safin and Hewitt?

Safin also has #1...
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Old 01-26-2013, 09:07 PM   #19
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Default Re: What Murray needs to surpass Safin and Hewitt?

Based purely on achievement: Provided Murray's career continues on it's current trajectory (i.e consistently reaching slam finals and occasionally triumphing, whilst winning at least 1 WTF and spending some time at No.1), over the next 3-4 years, then he'll easily surpass both Safin and Hewitt. Discussing talent and ability, and comparing era's for example, is another matter entirely.
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Old 01-26-2013, 09:28 PM   #20
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Default Re: What Murray needs to surpass Safin and Hewitt?

Good looks.
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Old 01-26-2013, 09:33 PM   #21
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Default Re: What Murray needs to surpass Safin and Hewitt?

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Originally Posted by Looner View Post
Safin also has #1...
But Safins no 1 alone isnt enough. It was only 9 weeks ( i think) in total. Thats hardly sustained even that was only a few weeks at a time.

HE won less masters than Andy 5 vs 8
No Masters cup
No olympic medal
4 GS final to Andys 6
7 GS semis to Andys 12
15 titles to Andys 26 (if he wins tommorow)

Whereas Hewitt was #1 for 80 weeks, and won 28 titles, 2 Masters cups
Andy needs 1 WTF and number 1 ranking to surpass him.
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Old 01-26-2013, 09:35 PM   #22
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Default Re: What Murray needs to surpass Safin and Hewitt?

Safin is so overrated on this forum as much as any Grand Slam champion. The way many people talk is as if he achieved what he could have achieved what he had achieved. Not taking anything away from him though as he had a great career regardless but from some comments you would think the guy won at least 5 slams.
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Old 01-26-2013, 10:08 PM   #23
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Default Re: What Murray needs to surpass Safin and Hewitt?

He's better than both. Unfortunately, he's playing against much more difficult top players than either Hewitt or Safin had to deal with.

Players are judged relative to how they fared in their own era, so that works against Murray at this point.
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Old 01-26-2013, 10:08 PM   #24
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Default Re: What Murray needs to surpass Safin and Hewitt?

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Old 01-26-2013, 10:12 PM   #25
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Default Re: What Murray needs to surpass Safin and Hewitt?

I don't think he needs Davis Cup since he's already won Olympics. But world #1 is reachable if he wins tomorrow.
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Old 01-26-2013, 10:13 PM   #26
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Default Re: What Murray needs to surpass Safin and Hewitt?

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I hate saying Nadal is greater than Edberg myself, but results are results.

Anyway their #1 ranking means even a win tomorrow will keep him just behind them two, but will rocket him past Roddick, Bruguera and maybe Rafter.
I don't see why. Safin and Hewitt achieved their #1 ranking when the top players were nowhere near as good. Do you really think Murray wouldn't have been #1 at some point if he played in that era?

I know we judge players relative to their achievements in their era, since it's the only objective means of judging. However, it seems silly to say that Murray is inferior to either in a qualitative sense.
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Old 01-26-2013, 10:19 PM   #27
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Default Re: What Murray needs to surpass Safin and Hewitt?

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He's better than both. Unfortunately, he's playing against much more difficult top players than either Hewitt or Safin had to deal with.

Players are judged relative to how they fared in their own era, so that works against Murray at this point.
If by "better than both" you were judging their peak game, Murray can't touch Safin. Safin and Hewitt had to deal with prime Fed. Hewitt was clealy hurt by that, if not he would have a few more slams or TMC. They also played when surfaces were different.
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Old 01-26-2013, 10:19 PM   #28
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Default Re: What Murray needs to surpass Safin and Hewitt?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Burrow View Post
How can you compare Safin and even Hewitt to Murray?

Firstly, Safin and Hewitt were during their primes when surfaces were diverse, but becoming homogenised. Murray plays in an era where everything suits him. You can say Murray plays his best tennis on faster surfaces, but it's not as simple as that. If there were varied surfaces, Murray would have to face a tour of varied styles, on top of being more prone to being blasted off the court by a hot player. And this is without having to adjust to the surface itself.

Then we have the fact that Safin was genetically predisposed to being someone who wouldn't challenge consistently for Grand Slams. No man before or after Safin of his stature has achieved what he has in the game. To avoid writing an essay on the subject, try coming to your own conclusions from this. Then we have countless injuries. In 2001, Safin suffered elbow and primarily back problems that hampered him through most of the season and when he was fully fit, had no rhythm nor confidence. In 2003 he suffered a wrist injury which ruined his entire season. In 2005 he suffered the injury which made him a mediocre player. The Australian Open was his last title, just turning 25 years old.

To achieve what he did during the matter of 4 seasons says it all.

And in my opinion, Murray has a massive physical advantage over Hewitt which is the only reason he can even be considered in the same breath as him.

If we're talking about achievements here, then you wouldn't need to start a thread about it. But if we're talking ability, then these variables need to be considered and are very much valid.
This is funny. So we're penalizing players for being athletically gifted? Should we start handicapping our judgements based on natural talent, too?

We could take this to its logical conclusion and discredit players entirely based on the fact of determinism.
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Old 01-26-2013, 10:19 PM   #29
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Default Re: What Murray needs to surpass Safin and Hewitt?

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Old 01-26-2013, 10:20 PM   #30
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Default Re: What Murray needs to surpass Safin and Hewitt?

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He's better than both. Unfortunately, he's playing against much more difficult top players than either Hewitt or Safin had to deal with.

Players are judged relative to how they fared in their own era, so that works against Murray at this point.
This is complete BS. Odds are Murray would never have even sniffed a Slam if he was peaking at the same time as Federer. If anything, Murray has it much easier now without such a dominant force around to take him to the cleaners (Hewitt's case) time and time again.
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