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Old 01-24-2013, 06:50 AM   #61
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Default Re: Fitzpatrick about prize money: very interesting article

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Originally Posted by latso View Post
Not true.

/thread
It is true and as usual you're clueless.
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Old 01-24-2013, 06:51 AM   #62
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Default Re: Fitzpatrick about prize money: very interesting article

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Originally Posted by latso View Post
Not true.

/thread
Hey, how does country like Serbia produce so many great players they can afford to export them abroad? I mean, they don't even have a Grand Slam which apparently is necessary to produce hundred of millions of dollars of revenue needed to train juniors?
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Old 01-24-2013, 07:10 AM   #63
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Default Re: Fitzpatrick about prize money: very interesting article

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Originally Posted by Timariot View Post
Hey, how does country like Serbia produce so many great players they can afford to export them abroad? I mean, they don't even have a Grand Slam which apparently is necessary to produce hundred of millions of dollars of revenue needed to train juniors?
Serbia has little effect on its players, Djokovic left Serbia to train abroad when he was still a teenager, same goes for Ivanovic.
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Old 01-24-2013, 08:26 AM   #64
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Default Re: Fitzpatrick about prize money: very interesting article

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Rubbish. Tennis associations were doing just fine 25 years ago with fraction of the money they had.

In fact, the return which "rich" associations get for the money - in form of new, promising players - is downright terrible.
true. just watch tennis australia
they are just saving the money for themselves, not using it properly, not even using it on tennis. just save it for them and give a part of the cake to the top players. thats what they do with slam money
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Old 01-24-2013, 08:30 AM   #65
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Default Re: Fitzpatrick about prize money: very interesting article

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Serbia has little effect on its players, Djokovic left Serbia to train abroad when he was still a teenager, same goes for Ivanovic.
that doesnt apply to milojevic, djere...
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Old 01-24-2013, 08:34 AM   #66
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Default Re: Fitzpatrick about prize money: very interesting article

and honestly the "give money just to the juniors" its stupid
tennis federations dont give money once a player is not a junior anymore. honestly, nowadays, who get to the top being a junior? NO ONE
look at last years best juniors: peliwo, coppejans, saville, cagnina...they are all barely into top 500, ALL OF THEM PLAYING FUTURES for a while, and this week
same happens if we look at 93 guys: golding, vesely, daniel, kubler...best of their generation. ALL OF THEM PLAYING FUTURES

if they dont support the futures, junior players just will never get through the pro level. tennis changes. and this is what happens actually
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Old 01-24-2013, 08:42 AM   #67
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Default Re: Fitzpatrick about prize money: very interesting article

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Originally Posted by Time Violation View Post
Serbia has little effect on its players, Djokovic left Serbia to train abroad when he was still a teenager, same goes for Ivanovic.
Which is of course part of the point. Successful players from "big" tennis countries also often have little to do with their respective associations.
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Old 01-24-2013, 09:20 AM   #68
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Default Re: Fitzpatrick about prize money: very interesting article

It´s a very interesting topic, and there are a lot of good comments in this thread. I´m sure it´s not easy for someone like FItzpatrick, but still...
Playing futures should not be a lucrative job. It´s supposed to be a springboard to higher levels of the game. Players are supposed to go through that phase and into the challengers, not play futures until they are thirty. Let´s face it, if you´re still playing futures at 23-24, (like Fitzpatrick), playing only a few challengers here and there, and losing in the qualies, you´re not going to make it to the top. Then it´s time to do something else with your life. Or continue playing futures, but don´t expect someone else to keep funding your hobby.

It all comes down to simple economics. In order for the players to earn more, they would have to create value themselves. Top pros do this, they attract huge crowds, sponsors, tv-broadcasters etc. etc. Even challenger players do this, obviously to a much lesser extent. But futures? What is the value they create? DO the matches draw crowds? Not really, ticket income is close to zero. Does tv brodcast futures? No, because no one would watch it. Sponsors? SOme, but let´s be honest, not that much, simply because the visibility is limited to the local club that doesn´t really draw spectators or tv. In fact there is a substantial alternative cost with futures. They are usually played at small-medium size tennis clubs, meaning that during a tournament that lasts a week, the club loses a lot of the income they would get under normal circumstances from paying club players. In many european countries that´s close to 20 e/hour/court. DUring a week it adds up to quite a big sum. They dont get ticket revenues to copmpensate for it, not even close.

So in futures, we are not talking about pros. We are talking about a tournaments that are very necessary for young players, but playing them should not be a lucrative job for journeymen getting close to 30 years. Talented players will usually find a way to advance, whether it´s with sponsors, pure talent, or with support of local federations (and if the federations don´t support young players and keep ther money to themselves, the issue is with them, not the ATP). Sure, some talented players will remain unspotted, maybe even some kid who could be the next Federer. But that´s the way it is, life is not fair. Every year thounsands of smart, talented young people graduate with masters degrees but can´t find jobs and end up unemployed. Life is not fair.

So all in all, it´s a question of market economy and capitalism. Whether those things are good for the society as a whole is a different question, but we´re not talking about health care, social security or education here. We´re talking about young, healhty people who have a choice. THey can do something else with their lives, there are people who are much worse off than guys like FItzpatrick. If they want to keep playing and dreaming of the top 100, sure, go ahead. But then they should find the funding for it themselves.

And for the record, I don´t think they current money distribution is fair, actually far from it. The top guys don´t need more money and the money should spead much more evenly, but the current issue is mostly with challengers, they should receive more. Futures is not the issue.
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Old 01-24-2013, 09:55 AM   #69
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Default Re: Fitzpatrick about prize money: very interesting article

Normal level Challenger players make a very decent living from it.

Ruffin - 174K
Bachinger - 240K
RRH - 200K
Ungur - 200K
Hajek - 140K
Dutra-Silva - 125K

How much more should they make? 20%? Would that make any difference at all? Their prize money vary so much, that it's about themselves if they would make 100K or 250K for a season.

The problem is not at Futures as we all (reasonable ppl) agree.

I believe at CH there is no problem as well.

The problem is for ppl who are jealous of the top players making a lot of money. Not my problem, they deserve it and they are the inspirations for young guys to start playing because everyone wants to be famous and rich.
I'm not that bitter to count the cents of the World's top tennis players. Whether they make 10 or 30 mil per season - i don't really care.
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Dimitrov will never win anything above 250 level.
Quote:
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there won't be many WC matches that are going to be played at the same time of Wimby, but if I have to choose, WC will always come first by a long shot. Even if it's Argelia vs. South Korea.
no shit..

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Originally Posted by R0B1S View Post
Both as long as they don't overlap, but when they do - it's world cup every time for me.
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Old 01-24-2013, 10:05 AM   #70
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Default Re: Fitzpatrick about prize money: very interesting article

Quote:
Originally Posted by latso View Post
Normal level Challenger players make a very decent living from it.

Ruffin - 174K
Bachinger - 240K
RRH - 200K
Ungur - 200K
Hajek - 140K
Dutra-Silva - 125K
Those guys are on the upper level of the Challenger echelon (at or near top 100), they earn more because they get to play few Grand Slam matches each year. Btw, the expenses of a player are not insignifant, tens of thousands in a year.

The problem, which many people fail to understand, is essentially that you need Timo Nieminens and Dutra-Silvas of the world, so you get Roger Federers. Healthy low-echelon semi-pro or pro circuit is essential in maintaining top level pros.
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Old 01-24-2013, 10:33 AM   #71
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Default Re: Fitzpatrick about prize money: very interesting article

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Originally Posted by Timariot View Post
Those guys are on the upper level of the Challenger echelon (at or near top 100), they earn more because they get to play few Grand Slam matches each year. Btw, the expenses of a player are not insignifant, tens of thousands in a year.

The problem, which many people fail to understand, is essentially that you need Timo Nieminens and Dutra-Silvas of the world, so you get Roger Federers. Healthy low-echelon semi-pro or pro circuit is essential in maintaining top level pros.
Of course we do. That's why we have them and will always have them.
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Dimitrov will never win anything above 250 level.
Quote:
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there won't be many WC matches that are going to be played at the same time of Wimby, but if I have to choose, WC will always come first by a long shot. Even if it's Argelia vs. South Korea.
no shit..

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Originally Posted by R0B1S View Post
Both as long as they don't overlap, but when they do - it's world cup every time for me.
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Old 01-24-2013, 10:34 AM   #72
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Default Re: Fitzpatrick about prize money: very interesting article

The comment is made that Tennis is a job.

For most people who play tennis it is actually a pastime. Anyone could declare any pastime should be a job and they should be paid for doing what others pay to do.

Tennis can be a job, but at a ranking of 500 in reality you are still a student. For many jobs you spend 3 years paying fees studying- just usually it is in lecture theatres. If you are not good enough the money you spend studying is wasted and you do not pass.

Many people spend hours playing computer games. Do they also deserve to call it a job and be paid?
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Old 01-24-2013, 10:42 AM   #73
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Default Re: Fitzpatrick about prize money: very interesting article

Quote:
Originally Posted by latso View Post
Normal level Challenger players make a very decent living from it.

Ruffin - 174K
Bachinger - 240K
RRH - 200K
Ungur - 200K
Hajek - 140K
Dutra-Silva - 125K

How much more should they make? 20%? Would that make any difference at all? Their prize money vary so much, that it's about themselves if they would make 100K or 250K for a season.

The problem is not at Futures as we all (reasonable ppl) agree.

I believe at CH there is no problem as well.

The problem is for ppl who are jealous of the top players making a lot of money. Not my problem, they deserve it and they are the inspirations for young guys to start playing because everyone wants to be famous and rich.
I'm not that bitter to count the cents of the World's top tennis players. Whether they make 10 or 30 mil per season - i don't really care.
lol those are not normal challenger players. they play in almost every grand slam which(even losing first round) adds more than 20k every one

you should read john millman when he said, he made it into the quarterfinals in singles and doubles 2 consecutive weeks at challengers and still he lost a lot of money those 2 weeks: this is just unfair


also, calling people who dont agree with you "not reasonable people" is delusional
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Old 01-24-2013, 11:32 AM   #74
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Default Re: Fitzpatrick about prize money: very interesting article

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sombrerero loco View Post
lol those are not normal challenger players. they play in almost every grand slam which(even losing first round) adds more than 20k every one

you should read john millman when he said, he made it into the quarterfinals in singles and doubles 2 consecutive weeks at challengers and still he lost a lot of money those 2 weeks: this is just unfair


also, calling people who dont agree with you "not reasonable people" is delusional
regular challenger players do play qualies of GS, always and a big chunk of them get directly in MD.

i call reasonable ppl the ones with arguments, the others saying things like "Australian TA keeps the money for themselves" is named "not reasonable people" just because i'm a polite person.

Any undecent guy would call that moronic, retarded and similar, but i wouldn't do that
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Abel View Post
Dimitrov will never win anything above 250 level.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sauletekis View Post
there won't be many WC matches that are going to be played at the same time of Wimby, but if I have to choose, WC will always come first by a long shot. Even if it's Argelia vs. South Korea.
no shit..

Quote:
Originally Posted by R0B1S View Post
Both as long as they don't overlap, but when they do - it's world cup every time for me.
NID
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Old 01-24-2013, 11:52 AM   #75
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Default Re: Fitzpatrick about prize money: very interesting article

Quote:
Originally Posted by latso View Post
Normal level Challenger players make a very decent living from it.

Ruffin - 174K
Bachinger - 240K
RRH - 200K
Ungur - 200K
Hajek - 140K
Dutra-Silva - 125K

How much more should they make? 20%? Would that make any difference at all? Their prize money vary so much, that it's about themselves if they would make 100K or 250K for a season.

The problem is not at Futures as we all (reasonable ppl) agree.

I believe at CH there is no problem as well.

The problem is for ppl who are jealous of the top players making a lot of money. Not my problem, they deserve it and they are the inspirations for young guys to start playing because everyone wants to be famous and rich.
I'm not that bitter to count the cents of the World's top tennis players. Whether they make 10 or 30 mil per season - i don't really care.
If we take Dutra-Silva, for example: According to the ATP website he made 124 315 e last year, he played in 32 tournaments. 55 000 of this comes from two tournaments, RG and US Open. Excluding this he made 69 315 e from 30 tournaments, that is about 2300 e/tournament, I wouldn´t call this decent living., Excluding travel costs etc, it sure isn´t much, and he is one of the better challenger players. For players that make this much it´s practically impossible to have a regular coach, for example. And these are not futures players ranked between 500 and 1000, these are players in the top 150-200. If I remember correctly, last year some players were complaining that if they lost in the 1st round of Miami and IW they actually lost money travelling to the USA. This is not a good situation For the sake of a healthy competition, these players should make enough money to practice their profession.

It´s quite a cheap argument to imply this has anything to do with jealousy. I don´t care about the top players´ salaries any more than you do, it´s about the state of the game.
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